• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:39
CET 10:39
KST 18:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners9Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!33$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1525 users

[G] ZvX: Small things that will benefit you

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Normal
OpTiKcoyote
Profile Joined March 2011
United States60 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-21 05:15:34
June 19 2012 21:46 GMT
#1
ZvX: Small things that will benefit you

By OpTiKcoyote
[image loading]

Hello I am Clayton “OpTiKcoyote” Swafford and I’m a high masters Zerg player, when my internet allows it. I’m part of Team OpTiK and have been for a long time. This is my first guide and post that I have made on TL so be patient with me. This guide was motivated from my teammate’s recent post about TvX: Small Changes Make a Big Difference by OpTiKDream. So I have written a similar one with same idea but for Zergs. These tactics, movements, mechanics and maneuvers can and will make the difference in tight games. Once you practice and internalize these mechanics you’ll keep from losing a lot of games by any harassment based play as well as playing a much more solid and efficient game.

I realize a lot of the points are Overlord focused but for good reason. Extracting the maximum value from all of your units including overlords is very important.

1) Overlords Spotting Bases:+ Show Spoiler +
Having Overlords at every base on the map (Including the bases you already have, explained why in section 3), serves so many purposes. Dropping Creep to delay your opponent’s expansions helps significantly. It takes 75 seconds for the creep to disappear once the Overlord is killed. 2nd this lets you know that your opponent hasn’t taken a hidden expansion. 3rd for the bases that you’re going to take you are able to build spine crawlers on the creep, from the Overlord, around your hatch while it’s building! When the hatch finishes you’re able to change that Overlord into an Overseer so that the base is instantly defended from something like Dark Templars.[image loading]Take notice of the mini map for the sight and creep spread of the Overlords.

2) Overlords on a Control Group:+ Show Spoiler +
I’ve found it useful and easier to execute creep drop when every Overlord you have is on a Control Group. It lets you drop creep from every Overlord at once as soon as Lair finishes. This in combination with Overlords at every base makes for an easy way to delay your opponent's expansions. 2nd benefit is say your Zerg or Protoss opponent goes for Mutalisk/Stargate play early, you can recall every Overlord instantly with minimal clicks and get back to your normal play shortly. 3rd you’re always able to see how many Overlords you have and how many you have building if you add the Overlord eggs to your control group. This will always quickly show you for sure if you need to build overlords or if you just have to wait a few more seconds to start building units when you get supply blocked.[image loading]

3) Spines at every base:+ Show Spoiler +
Around the mid game time of ~14 minutes Zerg is economically strong enough to start investing in more static defenses. Putting Spine Crawlers at every mineral line is necessary to stall harassments long enough for you to respond. Remember the Overlords at every base? Now you can turn the Overlords at your established bases into Overseers. This is EXTREMELY important to have mid game versus Zerg and Protoss. Instead of using another drone for spores that can be picked off by something like DT’s, the Overseer is untouchable by any type of detection focus fire from melee units. Also the Overseer is mobile so when the DT’s run or Infestors are burrowed in your base, you can seek them out. The combination of Overseers and Spines at every base is a way to keep you from losing games to small harassment and stall larger threats throughout the game.[image loading]

4) Mutalisk vs Mutalisk Upgrades and Tricks:+ Show Spoiler +
This is something so many Zerg players do not understand so I will explain it in great detail here. When Mutalisk are vs other Mutalisk getting +1 armor is far better than getting +1 attack. Every armor upgrade in the game gives a full +1 damage reduction to the unit. Now mutalisk have the glaive attack which as you know bounces to three units. Every time the attack bounces it loses some damage output. So for example, without any upgrades the Mutalisks first hit does 9 damage, then the attack bounces to a second target doing 3 damage, lastly the attack bounces to a third unit doing 1 damage. Getting the +1 attack upgrade does NOT give +1 to the (9)(3)(1). The upgrade is distributed like this, 9(+1), 3(+0.333), 1(+0.111). This means that by the time you have upgraded all of the attack on the Mutalisks, its damage is 12, 3.999, 1.333. So by the time the attack has been fully upgraded this means that the 2nd bounce on the glaive has only gone up 1 damage point! Something that the first armor upgrade will negate. In my examples, +1 Attack Mutalisks on the left and +1 Armor Mutalisks on the right, you can see that when 6 Mutalisk are vs 6 Mutalisk the armor wins every time (having no micro) with a significant amount of left over Mutalisks and for a 2nd example I've done 12 vs 12.
Here is the 6v6 battle.
[image loading][image loading]This is the 12 v 12 fight.[image loading][image loading]A trick in Mutalisk vs Mutalisk fights is keeping a group of Lings underneath your Mutalisks. The Lings soak up some of the bounce attacks from the enemy Mutalisks. In close fights, this will decide the winner.

5) Overlords Outlining your Bases & Map:+ Show Spoiler +
Map vision is one of Zergs most potent advantages. Not only seeing every base on the map with Overlords but also seeing all the dead air space where drops will pass through is very important so you can react as early and effectively as possible. Having your base outlined with sight and creep is important and Overlords serve both of these purposes effectively. By outlining your base with creep you can place down some well positioned spores to shoot down drops,scouts and stall larger air attacks. Keeping Spines in range of all your Spores will assure to stall or clean up anything that does manage to get dropped before the transport dies.[image loading][image loading]Notice the vision the Overlords give you around the map, the Ling placements that are closer to the enemy and the map vision/defenses around the outer sides of your bases as shown.

6) Ling placements:+ Show Spoiler +
This is further extending the advantage of map vision for Zerg but in places that are too vulnerable for Overlords. The first and most important place is outside the enemy base. Have 1 Ling there to see and alert you of enemy army move outs. This will give you more time to react correctly opposed to an army surprising you at your base or the Naga tower. Now in places where Xel’Naga towers have no vision such as the back pathways on Entombed Valley, a Ling can keep you from being surprised and out of position from harassment forces or main army movements.[image loading][image loading]It’s your choice to use either burrow or patrol. Patrol gives more sight in the area and will more likely be attacked and alert you, therefore increasing the chances of spotting enemy units’ movements, but burrow can still spot the enemy and more importantly not let your enemy know you know where they are. Also it can spot if the army changes direction and/or retreats where the patrolling ling that died, cannot. This is simply player preference on which to use.

7) Connecting bases with creep:+ Show Spoiler +
So important! Unit movements are maximized with the creep for Zerg. Defending bases off creep with units takes far too long so use your Overlords creep or the creep tumors to keep your bases synced together. Getting in position is one of the most important factors of the Zerg race, being highly responsive to opponent’s army compositions and movements. Creep connection will make the difference.

8) Base denying with Overlords and Lings: + Show Spoiler +
2 things here, creep drop and a burrowed Ling will drive your enemy crazy. (Thank You to Belial88 for pointing this out) Hold position on the Overlord when over a base will let it drop creep for a while longer while its being attacked. This is very useful with slow Overlords especially. If you have gotten the speed upgrade it is up to you whether or not you still want to sacrifice the Overlord for a few extra seconds of creep dropping or if you want to run it away. When they do kill the Overlord and the creep finally dissipates, they still won't be able to expand because of the burrowed Ling. Terrans might waste a scan for a 25 mineral Ling, unquestionably a positive for Zerg. Protoss either brings back units with an observer, which takes a bit of time. Otherwise they wait for the pylon and cannon to finish, so it can kill the Ling. When SC2 requires so much attention and multitasking everywhere, this little tactic will annoy and distract your opponent greatly. Also the Ling gives you time to get another Overlord there for more creep dropping or place a Nydus if the enemy army is far enough out of position to allow the Nydus time to spread its own creep.[image loading][image loading]

9) Always have a small counter attack Ling squad ready: + Show Spoiler +
Somewhere around 20 speed lings always in position on the map ready to harass and stall army movements is a very strong tactic. A careless opponent will lose worker lines when they over extend their army. Even if your opponent is covered on all fronts the lings can pick off scouts, proxy pylons, creep tumors, and any other vulnerability your opponent has. There is almost always something for these lings to kill. Even at pro levels you see ling run bys’ doing significant damage that can swing the game into the Zerg favor heavily. You can honestly use any units for counter attacks like a small roach force, but lings are obviously the fastest, cheapest and usually the most efficient way to do so.[image loading][image loading][image loading][image loading]


My students asked me to post a poll about how many people are finding this useful, I would appreciate it if you vote, thanks. : )

Poll: Did you find this post useful?

Yes (494)
 
96%

No (21)
 
4%

515 total votes

Your vote: Did you find this post useful?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



Special thanks to Team OpTiK for the support they have provided. ♥
-FoX
Profile Joined November 2010
United States479 Posts
June 19 2012 21:49 GMT
#2
Wow this is an incredible article. Thanks a lot for this. As an ex high masters terran player trying to switch to Zerg this is immensely helpful in my quest to become a better Zerg player. Thanks for all the tips and tricks and I will be sure to bookmark this thread so I can come back to it whenever I need it.
NOOBALOPSE
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada802 Posts
June 19 2012 21:52 GMT
#3
Thank you! I find this very useful as a reminder of what I should be doing and what I need to improve on! <3
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
June 19 2012 22:07 GMT
#4
Great guide. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this.
Yeah, small things they might be, but these help a lot for sure.
Overlord in a control group was something I had never thought of. Great idea. No more overlord killing field at my rally point.
Monsyphon
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada190 Posts
June 19 2012 22:10 GMT
#5
Good guide, although I think #3 is a little overkill
Andromedan
Profile Joined December 2011
64 Posts
June 19 2012 22:22 GMT
#6
Thx so much! i always use borrow to hide my lings to observe places on the map, but i never thought of patrol actually alerting you when the ling dies. thanks!
This pain you hold is yours. Nobody else on God’s green earth can feel this pain, or have the indescribable feeling of pride you will have when you overcome it. This pain is not your curse; this pain is your privilege.
Kommatiazo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States579 Posts
June 19 2012 22:37 GMT
#7
This is an excellent article, like EXCELLENT man. It'll be great to show my new zerg buddies (or old zerg buddies) to help them grow. This kind of makes me want to start playing Z, before reading this Z was my ultimate offrace and only used for team/trolling games. Quality guide and write up. Bookmarked.


On June 20 2012 07:10 Monsyphon wrote:
Good guide, although I think #3 is a little overkill


I definitely would agree at first, but then I think back to all the games I've been able to either autowin or reverse the game's momentum too easily with a couple DT attacks against Z. When they have 4-6 bases and they aren't as well prepared as the OP there's typically at least 1 mining base with a vulnerability against the DT attack that can either do econ damage or draw the army away so that P can set up advantageous positioning, take another base, etc etc. At the very least its distracting/annoying, and like the OP said, at the mid-late game Z should have a good enough econ to handle an overlord and a spine or two at every base.
"You must enemy don't know, and very good micro" - Bosstoss #Wet4Ret
Northern_iight
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada363 Posts
June 19 2012 22:53 GMT
#8
On June 20 2012 07:10 Monsyphon wrote:
Good guide, although I think #3 is a little overkill


I disagree. Many times I get my hatch sniped because of DTs. The overseer not only morph faster than a spore, it is also mobile. So if there's that time u find yourself getting harassed at 3 different mineral lines, having the overseer ready WILL save you from defeat at that moment. Also, that drone you spend on the spore is pretty important. I wouldn't morph the one in the main though, just third and nat. 100 gas in ZvP at the 12 min mark shouldn't be too much, since u're likely to be building roaches anyways.
rtnheart
Profile Joined June 2012
United States1 Post
June 20 2012 03:20 GMT
#9
This is a great guide! I learned a lot and have been winning almost every game since reading this, thanks dude!
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-20 05:08:11
June 20 2012 03:30 GMT
#10
^ really? already? anyways.

Protip - if you are spewing creep on a base that the opponent will likely eventually take (the third and fourth of opponent, basically), hit hold position on the overlord so it spews creep forever instead of run away when hit, so it spews creep for the longest possible time.

So when sending that overlord to his third, queue up shift+hold so that it goes there, spews creep, and stays on hold position.

2nd protip - endgame, any place with fog of war in it, put an overlord there. Every zerg at 15+ minutes should vision of the entire map outside the opponent's base.

Overlord speed is an amazing upgrade always worth getting eventually, but if you are good, you rallied each individual overlord you made from the start of the game along a very, very conservative and safe route that 10 minutes later, means 20 overlords all over the map seeing everything.

I also kind of think an overseer at each base is overkill, but there are certain situations to warrant it, and certain not to (especially stargate play). You can't afford that gas at all... but if they are clearly using mass DT, or using lots of warp prism, or extreme lategame, of course go overseer. You should also start an overseer if you ever see a twilight or aren't 100% sure what the opponent is opening, when your lair is done. Patrolling an overseer against robo openings to kill observers is a good idea too.

edit: voted no. These were all things I already knew (1.2k masters last season). I think I knew and did all these things back in diamond a year ago. But these are all very helpful for lower level players, so it's not like my 'no' means I think this is bad or anything.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Monsyphon
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada190 Posts
June 20 2012 03:33 GMT
#11
...Did I say #3? Oh wow, Im sorry I meant to say #2, because #3 is definitely worth it.
I use most of my hotkeys as it is, and using up one hotkey for overlords doesnt sound too good for me.
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
June 20 2012 03:48 GMT
#12
Very nice article :
- Useful tips
- Well presented
- Well written
- Relevant pictures

Thanks a lot OpTiKCoYoTe!
shaby23
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada72 Posts
June 20 2012 05:04 GMT
#13
Very nice article.

Good Job
Zerg for life baby
joeyBanana
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany77 Posts
June 20 2012 05:26 GMT
#14
Liked! Knew most of the stuff, but its still viable to look it up, since these things can win and lose u games especially at the border between Trashy Macro (Diamond) and Almost-Not-Trashy Macro (Low Masters)

Although i would add this egg advice regarding OLs to every unit. Adding them to a control group before hatching is a huuuge timesaver, since you dont got to look out for your rally point all the time (As long as you dont got a screen hotkey for it).
Premature Egrackulation
sugatooth
Profile Joined September 2011
United States52 Posts
June 20 2012 05:41 GMT
#15
Thanks for this! Very helpful for scrubs like me :3
rage your dream
clever_us
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States329 Posts
June 20 2012 06:30 GMT
#16
OH GOD THE OVERLORD CONTROL GROUP IS SO BRILLIANT WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS BEFORE
glhf <3
Asolmanx
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy141 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-20 09:05:39
June 20 2012 09:01 GMT
#17
What about, instead of making an overseer for every base, you make a spore attached to the hatch, then you build spine crawlers around it and "isolate" the spore from melee attacks. Maybe even build an evo chamber. here's an example:


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
OpTiKcoyote
Profile Joined March 2011
United States60 Posts
June 20 2012 10:06 GMT
#18
On June 20 2012 18:01 Asolmanx wrote:
What about, instead of making an overseer for every base, you make a spore attached to the hatch, then you build spine crawlers around it and "isolate" the spore from melee attacks. Maybe even build an evo chamber. here's an example:


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


When a spore and/or spine crawler are hugging each other, attempting to make a wall, they leave a gap wide enough for small units to fit through and attack such as a dark templar or zergling. Even if you do have the spore crawler completely walled in and safe it still lacks the mobility advantage that the Overseer provides along side with changelings. The spore crawler has only 2 advantages that the Overseer doesn't, the ability to shoot at air units and the fact that it doesn't cost gas to make. If you believe in the spore crawler this strongly then I encourage you to test it out in your games and experience the ups and downs yourself, this is of course a great way to learn and gain understanding of any method. Though I'm confident you'll arrive at the same conclusion I have of using the Overseer. The pluses outweigh the negatives in most situations.
Antieque
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)79 Posts
June 20 2012 10:33 GMT
#19
2 is completely unnecessary
Macpo
Profile Joined September 2010
453 Posts
June 20 2012 11:46 GMT
#20
I find the idea to hotkey overlords quite interesting! it helps to check supply block, above all; plus, it avoids messy bases with overlords hanging around just above your queen and tech buildings; finally you can spread them much more easily. I am definitely gonna try this!
"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze
SorrowShine
Profile Joined October 2011
698 Posts
June 20 2012 11:54 GMT
#21
Very nice. However as mentioned above it's usefull mostly for the low league players.
The most usefull tip is about adding the morphing eggs straight to control group.
OpTiKcoyote
Profile Joined March 2011
United States60 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-21 05:08:22
June 21 2012 05:08 GMT
#22
On June 20 2012 20:54 SorrowShine wrote:
Very nice. However as mentioned above it's usefull mostly for the low league players.
The most usefull tip is about adding the morphing eggs straight to control group.


I have to disagree. This is not just for low level players but for everyone. While these mechanics are not easy to master quickly, it seems to me that announcing these mechanics are for lower level players is a way of saying that you execute this stuff perfectly every game as necessary. While this may be true, I'm thinking it to be unlikely as even the best players in the world right now aren't doing all of these things consistently. Too many times you will see top level players not executing these mechanics themselves. Just the other day in the GSL violet took far too long to discover maru.prime had hidden an expansion at the 4 base early in the game on Daybreak. Something that simple Overlord even just behind the base, not creeping it, could have kept Violet in the know. Though Violet being a far stronger player was still able to beat his opponent, the fact remains that an expansion in the control of a more equally skilled opponent could have cost him the series and put him in danger of losing in code S so early in the season. Please look through tons of pro replays yourself and see how much of this stuff they are not doing in their games. These mechanics are for players of every skill level and should not be underestimated.
Having said all this I want to make sure I am not coming off as stuck up or anything negative of the sort, some of this stuff may come off to you as common sense or nothing new, but that does not diminish the importance of the tips.

Lots of ♥ : )
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12499 Posts
June 21 2012 05:23 GMT
#23
i find 2 completely useless.
The ling patrol trick is really useful, I should totally do that more often
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
June 21 2012 09:13 GMT
#24
Really? I found 2 the only new idea out of all of these, and I really like it now that I think about it.
It doesn't happen often but sometimes I think I made an overlord when I didn't, or I think I didn't and I overproduce them. This will stop that immediately!
I also really like dropping creep from every overlord the moment your lair finishes, there is really no reason not to do it!

Thanks OP! Very helpful.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Nooborghini
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada136 Posts
June 21 2012 19:11 GMT
#25
On June 20 2012 12:30 Belial88 wrote:
2nd protip - endgame, any place with fog of war in it, put an overlord there. Every zerg at 15+ minutes should vision of the entire map outside the opponent's base.


I would not say this is a pro tip, just a pointer but it is very generalized and ignorant to say that "Every zerg at 15+ minutes should vision of the entire map outside the opponent's base."

1) You cannot always have vision of the entire map outside your opponent's base after 15 Minutes. If they at LEAST one air unit such as 1 Viking, Phoenix, etc. Overlords won't really have a chance to be in those positions granted if the opponent is active with his units, which should be the case at high levels.

Granted you can snipe off the Overlord Harassment unit however, no one will make only ONE phoenix so they'll always have more Phoenix to support their harassment.

2) Depending on how large the map is and how active your opponent is to "REVOKE" your map vision also has to come into effect. All the TvZ and PvZ guides will always mention that revoking map control from the Zerg is huge and everyone should do it.
If you are saying that you should have total map control past 15+ mins, that is saying that your opponent isn't being active with his part of trying to take back map control away from the Zerg which isn't a fair consensus or a subject to say as a tip.

These are just my 2 cents.



On the other hand, great guide here!

Very helpful for everyone for either a quick reminder for your future games, to learn Zerg from ground up or just to research on the things that the little things that Zerg does to help tip the game into their favour.

Again, thank you to OpTiK`Coyote for writing such a guide for the community members of TL!
Hope there is more to come ^^

Mooch Loovz <3
"So we're undefeated today vs everything else (T and P). But the games were ling all ins... and... DesRow twice (Protoss Player)." Greggers - Twitch.Tv/Nooborghini - Twitter/NuBrGNi
zasta
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom99 Posts
June 21 2012 20:14 GMT
#26
Very well done! I wanted to do something similar but this is much more comprehensive.

Some suggestions/additions.

ZvT: have a small number of banelings (3-5) morphed before you see any push out. I cannot over-emphasise the difference this made to my win ratio. They can be used to deal with drops and just allow you to defend a push without the marines being on top of you before your finish morphing.

Similar to (9) Have a separate control group of a few units to deal with drops. Eg 2 banes 6-10 lings, this way you don't end up sending your whole army back like a pillock to defend against those pesky marines Do the same with a group of roaches for dealing with warped in Zealots.

Thanks again!
Antimatterz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1010 Posts
June 21 2012 20:30 GMT
#27
On June 20 2012 12:30 Belial88 wrote:
I also kind of think an overseer at each base is overkill, but there are certain situations to warrant it, and certain not to (especially stargate play). You can't afford that gas at all... but if they are clearly using mass DT, or using lots of warp prism, or extreme lategame, of course go overseer. You should also start an overseer if you ever see a twilight or aren't 100% sure what the opponent is opening, when your lair is done. Patrolling an overseer against robo openings to kill observers is a good idea too.


From my experience you will pretty much always need an overseer at each base in both ZvZ and ZvP. In ZvZ there are a ton of people who use burrow infestors/roaches and you need to be ready to deal with them at all times, and in ZvP you need the overseers to stop any kind of DT harass (you will also need them later on when the toss gets motherships.
"HotBid [11:45 AM]: i dunno i kinda like the big muta shooting smaller mutas out"
OpTiKcoyote
Profile Joined March 2011
United States60 Posts
June 22 2012 16:39 GMT
#28
On June 22 2012 04:11 Nooborghini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2012 12:30 Belial88 wrote:
2nd protip - endgame, any place with fog of war in it, put an overlord there. Every zerg at 15+ minutes should vision of the entire map outside the opponent's base.


1) You cannot always have vision of the entire map outside your opponent's base after 15 Minutes. If they at LEAST one air unit such as 1 Viking, Phoenix, etc. Overlords won't really have a chance to be in those positions granted if the opponent is active with his units, which should be the case at high levels.

On the other hand, great guide here!

Very helpful for everyone for either a quick reminder for your future games, to learn Zerg from ground up or just to research on the things that the little things that Zerg does to help tip the game into their favour.

Again, thank you to OpTiK`Coyote for writing such a guide for the community members of TL!
Hope there is more to come ^^

Mooch Loovz <3


That is one reason why Overlord speed is important. You can recall, with the control group, every Overlord or just maneuver and relocate the Overlord(s) being attacked until you get some support there for them.

Thank you for your thank you and your mooch loovz : D
vgfanatic2
Profile Joined June 2012
United States1 Post
June 26 2012 00:08 GMT
#29
Thanks for the tips.

Also, did nobody else notice the heart in the minimap for #5?
TheBigCohooNah
Profile Joined June 2012
United States9 Posts
June 26 2012 16:59 GMT
#30
very good post. I will start using these overlord suggestions!
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
June 28 2012 00:01 GMT
#31
On June 27 2012 01:59 TheBigCohooNah wrote:
very good post. I will start using these overlord suggestions!


Man I've been telling myself to do this but no luck so far. I feel like the more I play the harder it is to break habits. It's weird because I add every unit I make to hotkeys except for overlords and drones. Then again I should really either hotkey or screen hotkey my creep tumors.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
June 28 2012 04:56 GMT
#32
From my experience you will pretty much always need an overseer at each base in both ZvZ and ZvP. In ZvZ there are a ton of people who use burrow infestors/roaches and you need to be ready to deal with them at all times, and in ZvP you need the overseers to stop any kind of DT harass (you will also need them later on when the toss gets motherships.


Spores have always worked for me, as long as you place them in a way to reduce surface area, and put down enough spines. Obviously if Toss is on 4+ bases, 2 spines and 1 spore will not be enough anymore. And in ZvZ, you just need to proactively place spore+spines, so that burrowed infestors don't get by. ie, at the chokes, entrance points, et cetera. Overseer at each base is way too much gas.

would not say this is a pro tip, just a pointer but it is very generalized and ignorant to say that "Every zerg at 15+ minutes should vision of the entire map outside the opponent's base."


Zerg tends to get map control around then. Even if you dont go mutas, if he's picking off overlords with a viking, you can get overlord speed, or just go shut it down with your ground based AA like infestors, since you have map control anyways. Toss tends to cut air production after initial stargate opening due to infestor/spire/hydra being out and the need to get colossus or storm out asap, and terran aren't just going to be making vikings when they similarlyl need to focus production on siege units.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
SadCheese
Profile Joined May 2011
11 Posts
June 28 2012 05:12 GMT
#33
I think you could add in one thing: Whenever going infestors, always get burrow.

It sounds simple but it's somewhat incredible watching pro games where the army is killed off and all of a sudden six naked infestors are eaten up.

One additional caveat is that one should always send in a changeling and see if there is any detection, and if you aren't expecting a ton of roaches or marines to hit you in the face (ie, you need them now) then you should always send two burrowed infestors to at least one base, wait for 150 energy on both and then double fungal the whole mineral line. It's such a quick and dirty way to score a huge economic win. Plus, you can usually get out safely the first time around and depending on how much harass you are doing you can sometimes repeat the offense (if he sucks). If you are super boss then you can do it at multiple bases, but you gotta hope he doesn't just run over your main force since you are out four high energy infestors...
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
June 28 2012 05:26 GMT
#34
Zergs should be burrowing all the time but yet you only see a few pro Zergs who do it.
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
SamuraiSEA
Profile Joined June 2012
Japan89 Posts
June 28 2012 06:45 GMT
#35
Wow, a lot of interesting points and tips here. Thank you for your efforts ^^
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
June 28 2012 07:23 GMT
#36
Thanks for the tips!
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech139
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6812
Zeus 673
Larva 496
actioN 464
Killer 347
Soma 297
ToSsGirL 97
sorry 67
Jaedong 37
NaDa 35
[ Show more ]
Sharp 22
Hm[arnc] 16
NotJumperer 15
Bale 14
Sacsri 14
HiyA 10
Mind 8
soO 5
Stork 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm121
League of Legends
JimRising 488
Reynor89
Counter-Strike
fl0m2397
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor68
Other Games
summit1g17848
C9.Mang0270
XaKoH 109
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick640
Counter-Strike
PGL151
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 20
• Adnapsc2 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2546
• Stunt687
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
21m
IPSL
8h 21m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
8h 21m
Lambo vs Clem
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs TBD
Zoun vs TBD
BSL 21
10h 21m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
13h 21m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 2h
LAN Event
1d 5h
IPSL
1d 8h
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
1d 10h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.