EPT[G] Only Bio in TvZ! - Page 2
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Azzarox
France7 Posts
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
I can be wrong, who cannot? =) But i never encounterd broodlord-problems as i normaly get ahead in the midgame. Even if you cannot deny Broodlords from hitting the field and have not gotten that far ahead army-traind wise you still should be able to establish 4 bases no problem and can throw down a ton of starports and produce 6+ vikings at once (swap 2 reactor rax out and build starports there). As you do not have to retreat against a small amount of broodlords cause marauder can be healed quite effectivly vs broodlings and you have 0 splash dmg on your own units from tanks you can hold the army in position for a really long time and only move very slightly. As you also should have mapcontrol you can start slowing this push down at least from the middle of the map, most likely much earlier as you do not have to immediatly retreat and that gives you time for either dropping, transitioning to Vikings or transitioning to ravens. Therefore it never became a problem for me. As long as i did not forget to build enough barracks and sat there with 2k overmins and a small army. THEN it's most definitly a problem. But if i am wrong we can discuss this alot, that's why i posted the guide in public so that everyone can share their thoughts on that i am open for feedback and thoughts about anything you want =) | ||
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
first game of vod http://www.twitch.tv/eg_idra/b/321250148 | ||
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
Also he has only 6 medivacs after 16 minuets, even i got supplyblocked once in the replay i just watched i had 6 by 12 minutes. etc. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 13 2012 16:55 padfoota wrote: + Show Spoiler + Seriously though, Im thinking back to the time when I was asking if bio only was viable and getting yelled at by people because "Terran = siege tank, siege tank = terran" "If you dont use siege tanks you should just switch race" "Seriously? Just use siege tanks" etc etc etc and from fucking teamliquid nonetheless too. Really glad to see its poking its head out more and more now, although I must say bio only is super tiring and shouldnt be used over and over game after game X_X unless you are some serious gamer Thing is, with the buff to queens, hellions lost a lot of their viability and therefore the early factory. Then you have the fact zerg can get faster to their lategame tech(while not really needing to make any meaningful amount of gas units before hand, read: infestors), which makes tanks pretty... obsolete. Their time to shine was mostly in the midgame, but with a free 3rd for the zerg, the game kind of skips the midgame. I used to bio a while back, and it has always been strong, but like the OP says, it's very very micro intensive(as you can't skip a beat on micro while macroing) and I switched back into tanks since it was simply a lot easier and rewarding. + Show Spoiler + Bio is imo just all about outplaying your opponent, and since that's what TvZ has come down to, well might aswell play a style that offers the best way to punish the zergs mistakes. Thanks OP, have been looking for a more solid bio build, will def. give this a shot. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
On June 14 2012 00:48 zmansman17 wrote: Yeah I have a build that is just Bio TvZ and it operates pretty well at high levels. Considering marauders function pretty well to buffer damage, and good micro can negate mass banelings, Bio is a decent option Good micro can negate mass banelings but not bane/infestor. | ||
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jorder247
United States10 Posts
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
On June 14 2012 04:18 jorder247 wrote: How do you defend a 7 minute 2 base baneling all in with this? I constantly lose to that strategy every game. I can only guess cause i have not come across one but in general you should smell something fishy is going on by the time you move out with your combatshield timing and be able to throw down some bunkers. I guess you must get a bit lucky in scouting it but as you normaly should have control over the watchtower(s) and if Zerg is not careful and you see the lings etc. you can immediatly respons. What you could add (what i will do as well), is a patroulling marine/scvs a bit in front of your base once you lose tower control. Also always send your initial scouting scv if it's a map with more than 2 spawn possibilities to the third of Zerg and hide it there to see if it goes down. If you see none by time you want to move out with the marines thwrow down 3 bunkers and send one unit to scout in front of your base. This is all i can say about that cause i did not came across that one and generally didn't get allined. What i can also tell by the way marineking handels a crisis vs stephano: a) if you see the initial force and it is not very big pull some scvs and move out agressivly to kill the banelings before they are morphed (be certain otherwise you will lose your marines and the game!) b) Do not build medivacs (cause the ressources should be tight and you should not be able to afford them if you go for around 4 bunkers and an early wall) instead only marines, marauder and scvs. Also i would suggest to throw down 2 more barracks immeditaly if you are 100% certain of an allin to a) help wallin off and b) produce more units. Everything else on how to hold an allin is pretty commen known i guess. Hope that helps, i will provide an update once i come across that allin and be able to practice it to the point where i can hold. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
So why not do a factory/starport swap and get some ravens with hunter seeker missiles as well as the usual viking production? Hunter seeker missiles help vikings fight corruptors and do massive splash against broods, as they can't (shockingly) run away. Anyway, on to the main point I wanted to raise, quoted earlier today from Idra's stream: "pure bio is bad. [you] should have added tanks after like 4 hellions while taking a 3rd." - said after he crushed a pure bio Terran with ultra infestor. Something to take into consideration, considering he is a pro Zerg and all. | ||
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
On June 14 2012 07:44 Larkin wrote: A question (mostly out of ignorance about playing Terran) - surely you aren't spending THAT much gas on a pure bio army? Most of it goes into medivacs and ghosts (if you get them) a little bit in marauders and vikings. So you should have a big gas bank by the time they get brood lords out. So why not do a factory/starport swap and get some ravens with hunter seeker missiles as well as the usual viking production? Hunter seeker missiles help vikings fight corruptors and do massive splash against broods, as they can't (shockingly) run away. Hey! The main reason is that you can mine more minerals if you do not mine extra gas (usually 4 gas are enough to carrier you through the whole midgame as long as you only produce upgrade, medivacs and one marauder) you have to add 1-2 gas if you switch to more marauders. As i want to keep the pressure up i think the more marines the better as Raven take out alot of marines and medivacs ressource wise and you need another starport as you really need those double medivacs production nonstop. So i guess it depends on how good you are if you are REALLY REALLY good at your micro so you do not need those marines that ravens/starports/vikings/etc. take away from you ressource-wise you can do it, i couln't afford it - only if i had been far ahead but i would not risk to get caught in a transition etc. Also you need ofc more apm to micro everything perfectly as ravens are aweful on there own. If you got those extra apm and want to invest in those units go ahead! Possible it is yoda! Anyway, on to the main point I wanted to raise, quoted earlier today from Idra's stream: "pure bio is bad. [you] should have added tanks after like 4 hellions while taking a 3rd." - said after he crushed a pure bio Terran with ultra infestor. Something to take into consideration, considering he is a pro Zerg and all. I have talked about that a few posts towards the top, the terran did not play with a solid gameplan and build also he put himself in a very defensive position by getting a fast 3rd so he was not able to pressure idra anytime and had low medivac count etc. it's not how i suggested to play bio in tvz. You can read the post above if you want. Glad you think about some transition and stuff, thanks for that  | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On June 13 2012 23:11 ThePlayer33 wrote: 'pure bio is bad' - IdrA first game of vod http://www.twitch.tv/eg_idra/b/321250148 yeah. mkp must be bad to want to use a bad strat? | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
On June 13 2012 23:11 ThePlayer33 wrote: 'pure bio is bad' - IdrA first game of vod http://www.twitch.tv/eg_idra/b/321250148 dude just look at his splits... two of the 3 fungels still hit FULL marine clumps, the guy didn't pre split and he could've done a lot more harass all game. Just because one person fails at it because they're new at doing it doesn't mean that the strat is bad. Idra says EVERYTHING is bad, so using his opinion on something isn't even a good argument. There are a lot of factors that could've been going on for the other player. The other player said that idra was "so good" implying that idra is probably one of the best zergs that the guy has played against, and if you're playing against better people you're going to improve but he hasn't improved to the point where it was able to let him win. It's already been stated in the OP how if you don't presplit or don't have the apm to do it you're going to lose. I'm pretty sure that guy caught the end of the fight and didn't use a scan to see where the army was in that first engagement where it actually mattered if he won or lost it. If he won it that fourth to the far right dies and he has the potential to drop the base at the bottom left corner and then move his units from the fourth that he just killed on the right hand side to the main. That game could've been totally different, and I didn't even see the guys upgrades. TL:DR Just because someone is bad with a strat doesn't mean the strategy itself is bad. | ||
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
On June 13 2012 11:31 Fencer710 wrote: Very nice guide! :D You may want to make it so that you can click stuff in the index, shown here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=336805#anchor Everything anchored =) hf with it | ||
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
Edit: vs allins (cut combat shield + factory if it is really early like this, also you can get those bunkers up around 5:20-5-30 and not as late as i did in this screenshot http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1933/screenshot2012061617055.jpg | ||
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Alex-Berker
United Kingdom117 Posts
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Aoxer
44 Posts
but I would also add that it might be a good idea to try this if you just want to improve (like me :D), it will improve your macro, micro and especially multitasking no end, you just have to be prepared to lose at first  | ||
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Sapp
Poland173 Posts
On June 14 2012 10:26 zhurai wrote: yeah. mkp must be bad to want to use a bad strat? I like your way of thinking everyone get stomped everytime when playing pure-bio. mkp owns with pure bio. That means that pure-bio is greate! ... It's like Nestea wining 4631298576 gsls in a row when you had like no good map in map pools.. All you need vs pure bio, is to stay lair tech with hive tech units + hive tech upgrades. All. | ||
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