On August 07 2012 06:02 jlai wrote: i watched all your new master replays..some observations that i have..
1) extremely important to save your medivac..it seems that if you lost 1 single engagement and got fungal all your medivacs then it's pretty much gg. 2) i'm surprised the game that you played with the rank 8 master zerg, he didn't put a single spire crawler in his bases even he saw that you had many medivacs 3) a few games, your opponents had extremely high gas/mineral and wanted to hold on for broodlord/ultralisk. you over ran him before he could get to tier 3 4) again...surprsied how they morph blings in front your mmm..and got killed multiple times.. 5) no flanking from your opponents
in gerenal, would you think that playing bio is like a snowball thing..you need to do damage with your first push..and you need to be ahead..if you're not ahead in your first push..you can't make it back..as you can't trade efficiently afterwards (zerg just overrun your army size or get to tier 3 units)
With tanks you can change the tide..once you have significant tank count due to the splash damage in one engagement. also you can argue you will lose your game if you get caught unsieged. but that would be applying the same to get caught being unsplit in playing bio. what's your view on this? Cheers.
I hope to be convinced to switch from tank marine rauder medivac to mmm too..
I have to agree that playing bio is like a snowball and its a style thats very unfogiven for the terran.
First engagement is the most important moment in the game, and thats why forsake stated, thats you have to hit the timings correctly and not missing anything, cuz a sec of delay, can be a sec of him getting that 1 banling that blew all ur army
You are absolutly right. If you make ONE mistake (like get 15 units fungaled to death or hit by baneling afterwards) you are dead. And you have no chance of coming back like you with a good position with tanks.
Medivacs are your most im important unit but if you lose them you can build a second starport to try to come back, it is like 50/50 that you succeed or get overrunned.
This style of play is extremly (!) fragile and even a slight mistake (like losing 10 marines by not paying attentaion) can mean death which does not matter as the marine tank player that much.
It is vitaly important to prevent that by scanning ahead to see where what is and to get experienced enough to judge (!) if you can take the fight or need 1-2 more rounds of your bio.
The thing that makes zerg have kinda the same fragility (by far not so much as terran but some kind) is the gas spending. If they missjudgje and build too many / too few banelings / infestors / tech up too fast / slow you can overrun them at any point.
Another point is that you get really far behind if you do not get constant upgrades or float 1,5k + for more than 1 Minute. The reason is that you should be around even all the time with zerg (if zerg is decent) supplywise and if you float 2k you won't have the units to push againd and you'll lose.
To sum that up: Yes it is a snowball effect, if you miss a single thing for a significant amount of time (especially early game pushes) you will lose most certainly. And there is no coming back like with tanks (except if you drop like crazy, e.g. shakuras game).
You have alot mor opportunitys to fail. More than at any other point in any athor matchup with any other style and you will fail alot, but it is really rewarding to get the edge very slowly while pushing your multitasking to the max and improve.
Also you will remember any mistake (like getting fungaled) and will be alot more careful next time so it is the best style to improve your gameplay i think.
I think bio is a very fun and effecient way of punishing an over-greedy zerg but it is also without a doubt one of the hardest playstyles to pull off.
I know from experience that one engagement that you don't pay attention to can cost you your entire army and you really need to be able to split efficiently in order to make this work. HOWEVER because of these facts it is also a really good way to improve in my opinion because it is so unforgiving.
Well written guide, you obviously put a lot of effort into it so thank you! And also imo bio v zerg is the most fun to both play and watch
I love you right now. After playing around with it for 2 days it finally made me capable of beating top25 Masters Zergs and therefore pushed me right to my Masters Promotion! Thank you very, very much for this really cool guide.
Hey! i'm a high gold player who enjoys bio very much, and goes bio in all 3 matchups :D
i know that i should be focusing on macro and mechanics and such at my level, but i also know that with an only bio play, macro does not win me many games in tvz and tvp :p
i do have a few questions about bio and your build order:
1, i normally push out with 2 medivacs and do a stim +1 timing at 10 minutes, which works fine. I tried the combat shield timing, but unfortunately without medivacs, i sometimes get swarmed by a LOT of lings before i reach the third, and shortly lose the game after losing my entire marine army, as when the zerg pushes out i'd only have 2 medivacs and a few marines left over. does this happen to you?
2. why do you get +1 before factory? doesn't that delay your medivacs so much? i feel like medivacs are so important, and i tend to get them out as fast as possible.
3. i don't mind using a scan or two to scout an all in if i cannot hold the xel'naga watch tower, but what is the best place to scan? should i look for tech buildings in the main? count gas? or count workers? simply seeing a banneling nest and spawning pool does not really help me, as that could be a standard transition into taking a third OR a bust coming, but i have no way of checking the third without pushing out with my marine army :s. should i scan the third as well?
also, do you go bio in tvt? if so, can you tell me about your variation in BO in that matchup? i usually do a variation of bomber's tvp in tvt, but i get add ons slightly earlier if i don't scout a tank contain.
1) No that does not really happen to me. You have to look out for gas with your first scv. If he has taken gas it is very likely that he has speed so send the scv first or a marine to see the speedling count and decide if you can take them or not.
If he has so much lings that you do not think, that you can take them out just retreat, that is already enough dmg done. Otherwise positioning is really key (behind the mineral line, or at least hug a wall).
2) It is because you have to stay even on upgrades with zerg and delayed upgrades get you really bad trades the longer the game goes on. Also medivacs become more important the longer the game goes on, he first medivac timing is all about having more units and slightly delayde medivacs give you these units. Finally a high medivac count cuts into your units by a reasonable count, and it is just not worth it to delay upgrades for medivacs like that in the long run.
3) You can scan if you like (around 7min, the main, 2 gases long time mined? -> very likely allin) but you do not need to. You should have watchtower control due to your 3 marine poke and if you do not see these lings coming you should be able to scout, that there is no third base with your scv and react accordingly. You really need to get somewhat lucky to chek those lings but just scout around if you suspect an allin. Most importantly scout the third (either with your scv scout or a random marine).
I go marine tank in tvt as bio is niot really viable except vs mech (at least in my opinion).
On June 13 2012 10:41 Enemyy wrote: 1.0 Introduction If Zerg is also spot on with dropdefense while moving the bloords forward you have basically lost the game if t
On June 13 2012 10:41 Enemyy wrote: 1.0 Introduction If Zerg is also spot on with dropdefense while moving the bloords forward you have basically lost the game if t
Seriously though, Im thinking back to the time when I was asking if bio only was viable and getting yelled at by people because "Terran = siege tank, siege tank = terran" "If you dont use siege tanks you should just switch race" "Seriously? Just use siege tanks" etc etc etc and from fucking teamliquid nonetheless too. Really glad to see its poking its head out more and more now, although I must say bio only is super tiring and shouldnt be used over and over game after game X_X unless you are some serious gamer
Yeah I personally use bio in TvZ the majority of the time. It was funny on here to see lesser players advise Terrans to "Just use seige tanks", not realizing that seige tanks are awful.
It's great to see Bio rearing its head once again, and yet I know those same posters will offer the same sentiment about why Terrans continue to lose.
PM me how to defend 2 base all in zergling/bane/infestor (third hatch just for larva) it is almost impossible since they have the same upgrades or even better upg then you have bc of 2 fast evos
They won't beat them straight up but thin their numbers so much that the marines you produced meanwhile will be enough to kill the rest without the zerg getting any scouting or real dmg done. Sorry for the confusion.
Hi there, low/mid diamond terran here, using your build, it really does work like charm against fast 3rds of the zerg, sadly most zergs on my level seem to not be taking a fast third, but instead just tech up heavily on 2 bases (with fast speed [i guess 21 gas] ) and then take their third.
This results in either me risking to lose all those marines with the combatshield timing if he indeed goes heavily for units, or if i sit back and wait for the medivac timing his army usually is advanced/big enough to pretty much clean that up as well.
So i guess my question would be if there's anything that can be done against zergs who go for that style with the build, or if i should choose a different opening if i see the fast gas.
still looking for help against zergs with fast tech ... i tried skipping the combatshield push alltogether since it seems to be too risky, but that did not help either, zergs just have too much shit arround 12min and everything dies and i lose sometime 20 minutes later because most zergs never actually attack ._.
EPT
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