Hey guys!

I've updated the BO with a new one. I've done some testing with it and it is definitly alot better than the old one.

Changes:
It is basically the same BO as before just with 2 guys in each of the first gas which enables you to get a cc down at 7:10 and have more minerals (= buildings, scvs, marines etc.) for allin defense. Please notice that some gas timings are new, too.

I will see if i can provide more replays for you in the next few days.

Best Regards, and open for feedback!

Chantastic

86 Posts

July 02 2012 22:50 GMT

#122

I just tried the new BO with 2 miners in each gas, it's insane how much more minerals two SCVs will get you.

forsakeNXE

Germany539 Posts

July 02 2012 23:23 GMT

#123

indeed

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

July 02 2012 23:44 GMT

#124

It's not pure bio, but it's just a few hellions mixed in. Against a 1300pt last season zerg, 700pt this season I just played on daybreak with constant drops and pressure all over with marine marauder medic with a few hellions.

http://drop.sc/213108

I suggest, as I always have, the demuslim opening for this kind of style. It gets you stim cs +1, and an 'early' third, and 5-6 rax 2 fac 1 port off 2 base, taking a third to drop a few more barracks to really churn out the bio army.

EnE

417 Posts

July 03 2012 01:20 GMT

#125

On July 03 2012 08:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:
It's not pure bio, but it's just a few hellions mixed in. Against a 1300pt last season zerg, 700pt this season I just played on daybreak with constant drops and pressure all over with marine marauder medic with a few hellions.

http://drop.sc/213108

I suggest, as I always have, the demuslim opening for this kind of style. It gets you stim cs +1, and an 'early' third, and 5-6 rax 2 fac 1 port off 2 base, taking a third to drop a few more barracks to really churn out the bio army.

Yes! I always mix hellions in. As I take my 3rd, I research blue flame from the factory and when the lategame comes, I add an additional fac and make thors from the first one, the second one I make a reactor for lategame hellions if needed.

Thylacine

Sweden882 Posts

July 05 2012 20:11 GMT

#126

This is just stupid. Always when I push there is no 3rd and theres too much defense to cause dmg with the marines, so I have to retreat. He got 1-2 crawlers, lings and many queens. Too big.

And then ling bling, how do I deal with it midgame? I can't push, really, lol.

And how do I produce an army fast enough to replenish the army I push with midgame? 9 raxes at 13:00 isn't enough obviously, but I can't afford to produce off more then that. And it's not so fun fighting 1-1 blings midgame with mass speedlings..?

And when do I start mara prod?

NoZyneighbor

Canada77 Posts

July 05 2012 20:58 GMT

#127

If you do your initial CS marine poke and see no third then good, he is either dojng an all in or else you are ahead due to having an earlier third than the Zerg.

You start marauder production after you start building the reactors on your two other raxes.

To deal with long bling you need to be able to as least somewhat split, or on lower leagues you can just have the marauders up front as most people just a move the banelings

Unless you are being extremely cost inefficient than a production cycle of 12 marines, 2 medicvacs, and 1 marauder should be enough to resupply your army. If you to lose your entire army, make sure your medicvacs survive and wait a couple of production rounds and go back into the Zergs face.

You want to start your 4th as soon as possible without stopping production or upgrades, web your 4th is up you want to be on around 14 to 16 raxes.

If you do lose all your medicvacs than it would be a good idea to take the 5th and 6th gas and build another reactor star port to rebuild that big amount of medicvacs.

Thylacine

Sweden882 Posts

July 05 2012 21:19 GMT

#128

On July 06 2012 05:58 NoZyneighbor wrote:
If you do your initial CS marine poke and see no third then good, he is either dojng an all in or else you are ahead due to having an earlier third than the Zerg.

You start marauder production after you start building the reactors on your two other raxes.

To deal with long bling you need to be able to as least somewhat split, or on lower leagues you can just have the marauders up front as most people just a move the banelings

Unless you are being extremely cost inefficient than a production cycle of 12 marines, 2 medicvacs, and 1 marauder should be enough to resupply your army. If you to lose your entire army, make sure your medicvacs survive and wait a couple of production rounds and go back into the Zergs face.

You want to start your 4th as soon as possible without stopping production or upgrades, web your 4th is up you want to be on around 14 to 16 raxes.

If you do lose all your medicvacs than it would be a good idea to take the 5th and 6th gas and build another reactor star port to rebuild that big amount of medicvacs.

6 raxes with reac
1 with lab?? That seems really expensive..

and ofc I try to split but he still cleans it up with ling bling easy mode. Also I move all marines backwards behind marauders when he runs at me, so it's not so bad but he still easily cleans it up and then as longer it goes on it gets impossible to push...
>_<

Btw he takes 3rd at 8:00. Right after he fends off my marines with mass queen + lings. So he will have that 3rd up and functioning before mine is up and functioning.

NoZyneighbor

Canada77 Posts

July 05 2012 21:54 GMT

#129

Only the initial two raxes get reactors the rest is always just naked raxes, this s because you do not want to wait for the reactors as you want to get extra production as fast as possible. The naked raxes also allows you to easily transition into mass marauders when he starts to get ultras

Thylacine

Sweden882 Posts

July 05 2012 22:09 GMT

#130

Never get addons unless ultra?...so ONLY make 1 marauder at a time, forever? only add more naked raxes?
That is essentially Only going marines, and only going marines in TvZ only works for Marineking, lol.
Explain how you manage?

NoZyneighbor

Canada77 Posts

July 05 2012 23:22 GMT

#131

Somehow I feel like you either did not read the OP or did not read the entire OP, when you see infestor tech you get another tech lab for double marauder production.
I think you overestimate the abilities of casual zerg players.

These are all the TvZ i played since I started using the BO this thread gave.
http://drop.sc/packs/1183
They contain replays of both the old BO and the new BO.
They are not the top of the level replays, most of them are either high diamond or low masters. so watch these replays with a grain of salt

edit: for some reason you cannot just download single replays, you must download the pack as a whole in order to get the replays

Thylacine

Sweden882 Posts

July 06 2012 06:18 GMT

#132

I've seen the replays.
And 2 tech labs still seem too low too fight ling/bling or ling/bling/Infestor mid/lategame?
.And if you expand at 7:10, how do you afford to add on 2-4 raxes?

treekiller

United States236 Posts

July 06 2012 11:34 GMT

#133

The second coming of Jesus, the Savior or the Terran race. That is what you are.

Also, I would be interested on your view of ghosts.

forsakeNXE

Germany539 Posts

July 06 2012 15:20 GMT

#134

I think they simply cost too much. Better go vikings vs broorlord or more marauder for infestors. If Zerg is really bad maybe, but if a techunits then the raven.

jdseemoreglass

United States3773 Posts

July 06 2012 16:06 GMT

#135

I've been telling terrans to go pure bio tvz for months. But now the idea of it actually catching on is a little terrifying...

I'm suddenly reminded of this thread I made: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=215434

Thylacine

Sweden882 Posts

July 06 2012 17:19 GMT

#136

Eneemyy, I appreciate if you answer to my question(s):

And 2 tech labs still seem too low too fight ling/bling or ling/bling/Infestor mid/lategame?
And if you expand at 7:10, how do you afford to add on 2-4 raxes?

Absurd Bunny

168 Posts

July 06 2012 17:38 GMT

#137

I couldn't keep count as I was reading the guide, but you keep saying that if the build is to work that you have to attack constantly and a lot.
In a regular game using this build, about how many times would I attack?

forsakeNXE

Germany539 Posts

July 06 2012 20:00 GMT

#138

@ Thylacine:
That's already answered somwhere in my guide or the thread.
You get 1 TL all game.
If Infestors get out you get 1-2 more.
If Roaches get out you get 1-4 more depending on how roach heavy the zerg is.
If Ultralisks get out you get like 8-10 TL in total and produce 2 rounds marauders.

@ Absurd Bunny:
You attack as often as you need to kill bases/him. You pull back if you are on the edge to beeing overrunned and pull your reinforcements from your home to help out and push again. This you do all the time.

limitedflux

Australia1 Post

July 08 2012 06:20 GMT

#139

i get "502 bad gateway" error when i try to download any of the replays

Talack

Canada2742 Posts

July 08 2012 07:12 GMT

#140

For any zergs wondering how to counter this. Just play normal and don't throw an army away. All you need is one good engagement and you're going to win, just make sure that you're not being forced to mess up from the aggression is all.

If you suspect this, muta/bane/ling will beat it much more easier than ling/infestor. This is actually quite good vs ling/infestor. Once again, all you'll need is one good fight, drone a bit then OVERMAKE units and you'll win this pretty easy.

You can also go for the hard ling/bane all-in style a bit later on if you do not die from the first 1-2 attacks. There is no way to stop it at all if the terran isn't making tanks and has bio only, no splitting will stop it

Otherwise it's alot of fun, mixing in more hellions helps alot if they're going ling/infestor.