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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 287
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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turboPasqual
Germany21 Posts
1) The reference spread sheet says, that Spawn Creep Tumor should be on O and Spawn Creep Tumor Alternative should be on I. Actually it is just bound on I. I think this is really not intended because it messes up with spawn creep while holding ctrl during the cycle. 2) How do I spread creep? How is the cycle? Is it really as following? - press ctrl + I to recall cam (keep holding ctrl) - click tumor - press O to rapid fire tumors - press J to set camera - repeat cycle with ctrl+shift 3) Where can I read about 2)? Is it written down anywhere? 4) I am still unsure about the fact that queen and updates from the hatchery are on the same keys as building units so that you have to keep an eye for your larvae. But at least I will give it a try. | ||
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Harreh
90 Posts
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FlOverlord
Germany19 Posts
2) How do I spread creep? How is the cycle? Is it really as following? - press ctrl + I to recall cam (keep holding ctrl) - click tumor - press O to rapid fire tumors - press J to set camera - repeat cycle with ctrl+shift I have to agreee. I find spreading creep with the current (1.0) setup pretty awkward, at least if you want to use rapidfire. The thing is: there is no smooth roll because recall cams is on I and setting them is on J while "performing the action" is on O which kinda prevents a smooth finger movement, I feel. - hold ctrl+I - keep holding ctrl select the tumors - LET GO of ctrl and press shift+O to rapidfire (ctrl+O never worked for me) - let go of shift and press ctrl again and press J to set cam. So not only is it this "weired I-O-J movement (which feels weired considering the smooth JIO/OIJ rolls) but then it also requieres changing the "modifier" keys in the midst of the process.. What I did so far was to switch recall/set Camera. So I recall with J and set with I, which kinda streamlines the whole finger movement: Recall - Select and Set - Rapidfire (J-I-O). Still feels kinda awkward considering the smooth process we had with 0.8 or whenever rapidfire was introduced. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
1) Fixed it and reuploaded the files. that was a bug with our remapper. 2) Yes, that is the current method. 3) I don't think its written down anywhere specific just yet. 4) Queens and upgrades on the hatchery have always been on the same keys as units. Its unavoidable unless you want to reach across the keyboard to play. We can choose to put them on more or less frequently made units though. Before they were on things like roach and up, and we're testing having them from the bottom up (lings and up). Either way, if you want a compact layout with fast upgrades and queens you have to have some overlap. If the consensus is that having these commands on the fastest keys does not create a superior layout we will make that change. @Harreh The biggest advantage of TheCore is the use of the thumb on the modifers and /z. If you use a lefty version with a righty mouse, you're losing that advantage. Soon we'll be working on TheCore Lite which will be as many advantages of TheCore we can fit in on the left side of the keyboard for right handed mouse users. I do strongly suggest giving TheCore RRM your full effort and time before using RLS instead. @FlOverlord Creep Spread is something Beedebdoo said he's got some ideas about. We're probably going to be making an update to it in January. Now is definitely a good time to start discussing alternatives. Is there a way we can do it all with one modifier like before that would be better? I do kind of like the way it is now, but I don't play so much zerg so my opinions on it are not very strong. | ||
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Bulldog654
United States79 Posts
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Beedebdoo
130 Posts
On September 28 2013 02:05 FlOverlord wrote: I agree, FIOverlord, this summarizes the current problem very well.The thing is: there is no smooth roll because recall cams is on I and setting them is on J while "performing the action" is on O which kinda prevents a smooth finger movement, I feel. + Show Spoiler [Creep sequence for ZRM] + Sequence Current Current NonRF RapidFire Non-RapidFireNote: I and O in Non-RapidFire are interchangeable. I've made the following sheet so to say, to illustrate the creep sequence, how it is now, and what it could become. Looking at the sequence, everything expect 5-6 have a mouse action in between. These mouse actions acts as buffers, reducing the impact things like key repetition would have. 5-6 can feel specially awkward because there is no buffer. What I'm suggesting is pretty straightforward: instead of using Ctrl+Shift bindings, we use 2 further away Ctrl keys. 5-6 have been smoothed at the cost of a slower recall 7 and set 8 (both of which are already buffered by respectively a modifier, and camera movement). An important thing to note about a Ctrl-only sequence is that you can start with cam 8. You can't always initiate with Ctrl+Shift, because it will add Creep Tumors to your current selection, which might contain things with a higher selection priority. | ||
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Harreh
90 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
What do you mean? Did you download the correct keyboard version? | ||
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FlOverlord
Germany19 Posts
I kinda agree and see where you're coming from, but I don't see how switching from I to K does help really. Neither with the roll nor the modifier "problem". Right now I feel the biggest thing hindering me personally is that you have to switch the modifiers BUT that patch from earlier today with the Creep Spread on O really makes quite a difference I think. Will have to play with that a bit. Thanks @JaK for the fix - didn't think of that. Admitedly I'm not a very high level player, but I've been playing SC2 with TheCore from the get-go and I don't mind switching from to Ctrl to Ctr+Shift too much at least not for different "action sequences". But switching in one action sequence i.e. having to let go off ctrl and/or pressing shift, just to go back to ctrl again, messes me up right now. Forgive me, I'm pretty Zerg-centric, but why did we change the cameras and rapidfire again? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Rapid Fire was changed due to a change in key priority. JIO all have basically the same priority, however because J is on the pinky it gets #1 followed by middle then ring making JOI the priority. However, because you cannot combine all of the control groups with O while avoiding finger repetition we swapped the priority to JIO, which in turn shuffled a few things around, including rapid fire. The advantage of having rapid fire on O is that it combines without finger repetition with any ability this means that if you want to use rapid fire for something that isn't normally used with rapid fire, you can. It also makes rapid fire base camera injects possible which were not an option before. | ||
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Beedebdoo
130 Posts
K and I in the RapidFire suggestion are interchangeable, forgot to note that, thanks for pointing it out ^^ It's a question of which part of the sequence should be fastest. In the suggestion I made, I prioritized a JIO roll from 5-8. Starting with I instead of K does indeed make sense, because starting faster means the whole process gets done faster. But, K and Ctrl share the same key-score, which means that from the resting position, they will be roughly equally fast to press for the average person, so, any gains from substituting K with a faster key will be diminished. I'm not sure what you mean about a roll. I'm guessing you mean the JIO roll, but you've already pointed out that IOJ is weird. Using shift in the Creep sequence is a problem, because it adds to the current selection, so every time you Ctrl-Shift-click a Creep Tumor, you add every Creep Tumor in your field of vision to your current selection. Because of Creep Tumors' low selection priority you'll probably have to to cycle though subgroups, if you have just about anything that is not a Creep Tumor selected. This is not a problem with the current Creep Sequence because it starts off with a Ctrl-select to rewrite your selection with only Creep Tumors. But, if there were to be Hellions at your cam 7, but not at your cam 8, you'd get slowed down because you'd have to briefly let go of shift to select the Creep Tumors. | ||
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FlOverlord
Germany19 Posts
I'm not sure what you mean about a roll. I'm guessing you mean the JIO roll, but you've already pointed out that IOJ is weird Yeah with roll I mean this continuous "smooth" finger motion: pinky - ring - middle - index or JIOP or the other way around of course. Right now it is IOJ, which I feel is slower. But as JaK pointed out there might be scientific data to prove me wrong. @Beedebdoo can you describe your creep sequence again, because I'm not sure if I just do it wrong or we missunderstand each other. The thing is: right now I HAVE TO let go of ctrl at some point during the sequence because rapidfire with ctrl+O just doesn't seem to work for me (I do shift+O). So that means I have to change my thumb placement during the creep spread sequence, for each cam (obviously it is the same issue for ctrl+shift). This, to me, feels like the biggest hinderance right now, unless I'm just doing it wrong in which case apologize for being such a pita. | ||
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Hancho
Germany89 Posts
Starport - Tech Lap - Research Durable Materials from ['] to [8] (with alternate [']) because Ravens are build [8] and the upgrade effects not only Auto-Turrets (which are build with [']) but also Pont Defense Drone (which are build with [k]) I think thats matchs better with the other upgrades: Medivac build with [I] and upgrade is also [i] Banshee build with [k] and upgrade is also [k] and [8] and ['] have the same keyscore | ||
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ZedraC
South Africa109 Posts
Thanks for your hardwork. | ||
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Beedebdoo
130 Posts
Please check to see if Ctrl+O and Ctrl+Shift+O might be bound to anything, and check if O is bound to Choose A.I. or Ability Target under Unit Management in Global Hotkeys. You must be able to hold down Ctrl at all times, and at no point, expect when the sequence is complete, release it. Try also to redownload your version. Also, make sure that you don't press down any keyboard key when holding down O, as it will cancel keyboard repeat (and thereby rapid fire). @Hancho Yes, Reseach Durable Materials should actually be bound to the Raven. Banshee build with [k] and upgrade is also [k] I'll have to correct you on this one.On September 25 2013 00:10 JaKaTaK wrote: Made some addition and a correction, but this is how upgrades are assigned on TheCore. Cloak is not bound to Banshee, but to the ability.All speed upgrades on J (e.g. Metabolic Boost) All energy upgrades on J (e.g. Moebius Reactor) All other passive upgrades (hydra range) on the key that produces the unit (whenever possible*) All other active upgrades (neural parasite) on the key that casts that spell. | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9056 Posts
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Hancho
Germany89 Posts
-Command Center/Planetary Fortress: Why is Load bind to [,] and [k] is unbound? ([k] has a better keyscore)(Bunker and Medivac have Load bind to [h] and Unload All bind to [k]) -Siege Tank and Widow Mine: Siege Mode/Activate Tank Mode/Deactivate Mine are bound to ['] why not to [k] with the better keyscore? I add this Alternate because of the better keyscore Ghost Acadamy - Arm Silo with Nuke: add alternate [i] I add these Alternates because atm I like [h] more than ['] and both have the same keyscore SCV - Advanced Structures - Build Armory: add alternate [h] Raven - build Auto-Turret: add alternate [h] Do you see a downside of these changes? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Thanks! We've put a lot of time and effort into it. It's great to see people enjoying its benefits @Garnet Lurking in the shadows for so long! Finally its 1.0 I strongly suggest using a hotkey trainer, it makes a world of difference. If you have yet to check it out. | ||
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BjoernK
194 Posts
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