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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 255

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Tertyshny
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation25 Posts
July 15 2013 19:12 GMT
#5081
I found out that on TRM layout, button 'i" is same for 'EMP' and for 'unload units from drop ship'. If add 'i' button as alternate for 'choose ability or A.I Target' hot key, you can drop from medivac and do EMP's easier.
Move your cursor over medivac you can just double click 'i' to unload units, instead pressing 'i', then click with left mouse on medivac. Also, you can double click "i" then your ghost selected and he will throw EMP to where your cursor is.
Killing 2 rabbits with one button.
I don't know if these two actions made on same button on purpose, just found out this by myself. Sorry if it is discussed in thread already..
teuthida
Profile Joined March 2013
United States104 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 23:32:55
July 15 2013 23:23 GMT
#5082
On July 16 2013 04:12 Tertyshny wrote:
I found out that on TRM layout, button 'i" is same for 'EMP' and for 'unload units from drop ship'. If add 'i' button as alternate for 'choose ability or A.I Target' hot key, you can drop from medivac and do EMP's easier.
Move your cursor over medivac you can just double click 'i' to unload units, instead pressing 'i', then click with left mouse on medivac. Also, you can double click "i" then your ghost selected and he will throw EMP to where your cursor is.
Killing 2 rabbits with one button.
I don't know if these two actions made on same button on purpose, just found out this by myself. Sorry if it is discussed in thread already..


Oh, this is very clever. I will have to try this out.

Edit: Played with it in the unit tester. Nice, except I remembered that pressing the same key twice is slower than two separate keys (or key and mouse in this case). Still, could have uses maybe.
KromesxD
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom3 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-16 04:50:48
July 16 2013 04:23 GMT
#5083
Maybe I'm being stupid but how can the zerg layered control group work on shift+p? The input to set p as a hotkey is the same as shift+p, I haven't tried it out but maybe someone could explain. According to the spreadsheet ctrl+shift+p sets the CG for shift+p, but it is the same for p.

Also, I can't seem to find a version of the core with mouse button control groups. I could just be looking for the wrong thing, but isn't it supposed to have an extra m after the size code?

This is for the UK keyboard layout by the way. I wonder if there's any difference between this and the USA layout, but I'm using the UK one to be safe.

Sorry if all I've said has been mentioned before

Edit: I just realised that I can't read spreadsheets. Thanks guys :D
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
July 16 2013 04:43 GMT
#5084
About the mouse buttons: TheCore now incorporates side mouse buttons by default, but rather than bind them to control groups, they are next/previous subgroup.
jjakji fan
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-16 14:20:46
July 16 2013 14:20 GMT
#5085
TheCore 0.7.2 Patch Notes:





(written notes in description)
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Smackzilla
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States539 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-16 19:41:52
July 16 2013 19:40 GMT
#5086
I've been trying out the ForGG style in TvT and have been having fun with ravens. I feel like HSM qualifies as a spammable spell, and perhaps PDD could too, e.g. you need to rapidly spit out some HSMs and PDDs.

Given the recent key change to Snipe, has there been any consideration of putting HSM or PDD on apostrophe? I'm more curious than anything. Spamming HSM with 'H' hasn't been bad, but perhaps PDD could benefit from coming off of slash?

P.S. In unrelated news, last night Khaldor was griping about terrans not hotkeying the depots in their wall in the game between Yoda and Effort. His point was that with a hotkey, a good terran could simply watch the minimap and hit 2 keys to raise the wall and stop the ling run-by. Sounds like a good candidate for The Core's plethora of easy-to-use hotkeys.
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a f&%*ing challenge - Scroobius Pip
Doomstar1
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom5 Posts
July 16 2013 22:07 GMT
#5087
Hi all,

I've been trying The Core now on the second day. I've got buliding structures down fairly well and am fairly satisfied with how it should get faster for me, but I'm having immense problems with control groups on ZRM.

Using the 0 and - tends to move my home key finger positioning out of place and l ; ' feels unnatural during combat in conjunction with J as attack. In fact, that J attack command in general just feels like it's slowing me down as my pinky is my slowest reacting finger and J attack is my most commonly pressed command during micro, it feels like it would be much quicker to use my index finger for the attack command (perhaps because I'm used to Grid).

I'm also curious about the Baneling keys and unburrow in general. I understand that binding them to separate keys prevents accidental burrowing and unborrowing, but in practice this makes it more difficult (so far and for me) to do burrow micro to keep units alive, especially roaches which I will micro heal fairly heavily in early game harassment/all ins. Banelings in particular having the disable structure attack and unborrow on the same key has been problematic for building destruction. I like to plant 4-5 banelings at the opponents third and sometimes natural if I can get burrow and banes before they set up to do an early build destroy, which requires destroying it almost immediately after building, double tapping unburrow on accident causes a slight delay that may give the opponent enough time to manually cancel production.

The rally key seems unusually out of the way (though I suppose since Right Mouse does this, they feel there is no reason for a hotkey). However, has anyone run into problems with having to correct hatchery rally points between Worker and units? I imagine having to reach for D and R in game would be really slow and frustrating when you're just trying to fix a mis-click.

Finally, I'm having the most trouble with using , in conjunction with Nydus and/or overlords. This is the single hardest key to press with the Core layout for me, even doing it slowly and concentrating on it while looking at the keyboard, it's a slow and uncomfortable finger position if you keep your Pinky on J (I've been bringing down my middle finger instead just to speed it up, but that occasionally shifts my home position when I correct).

Most of the keys seem to be designed well in conjunction with what you use next, but I'm really curious what the reasoning behind , for overlords and Nydus is, as the load and unload are very far from eachother (making quick drop and pickup micro-projectile-avoiding nearly impossible for me with this setup). I also don't notice using , anywhere else. I know not that many people use overlords or nydus, but it seems at least common enough to merit a more natural key. Any suggestions on something closer to the middle or index finger, or from anyone that has successfully used pickup projectile micro on The Core?

Has anyone else found a better position setting for loading units into overlords, or a way of loading and unloading micro with the way the setup is now?

Copper League Top 8
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-16 23:51:25
July 16 2013 22:51 GMT
#5088
On July 17 2013 04:40 Smackzilla wrote:
I've been trying out the ForGG style in TvT and have been having fun with ravens. I feel like HSM qualifies as a spammable spell, and perhaps PDD could too, e.g. you need to rapidly spit out some HSMs and PDDs.

Given the recent key change to Snipe, has there been any consideration of putting HSM or PDD on apostrophe? I'm more curious than anything. Spamming HSM with 'H' hasn't been bad, but perhaps PDD could benefit from coming off of slash?

P.S. In unrelated news, last night Khaldor was griping about terrans not hotkeying the depots in their wall in the game between Yoda and Effort. His point was that with a hotkey, a good terran could simply watch the minimap and hit 2 keys to raise the wall and stop the ling run-by. Sounds like a good candidate for The Core's plethora of easy-to-use hotkeys.


We totally missed this one! (or rather, I totally missed this as I was the one doing the physical changes). I'll fix it shortly. Thanks

EDIT: to specify i'm talking about the raven change. Also, Khaldor has even mentioned TheCore before on stream. He's kind of awesome.

EDIT2:

On July 17 2013 07:07 Doomstar1 wrote:
Hi all,

I've been trying The Core now on the second day. I've got buliding structures down fairly well and am fairly satisfied with how it should get faster for me, but I'm having immense problems with control groups on ZRM.

Using the 0 and - tends to move my home key finger positioning out of place and l ; ' feels unnatural during combat in conjunction with J as attack. In fact, that J attack command in general just feels like it's slowing me down as my pinky is my slowest reacting finger and J attack is my most commonly pressed command during micro, it feels like it would be much quicker to use my index finger for the attack command (perhaps because I'm used to Grid).

I'm also curious about the Baneling keys and unburrow in general. I understand that binding them to separate keys prevents accidental burrowing and unborrowing, but in practice this makes it more difficult (so far and for me) to do burrow micro to keep units alive, especially roaches which I will micro heal fairly heavily in early game harassment/all ins. Banelings in particular having the disable structure attack and unborrow on the same key has been problematic for building destruction. I like to plant 4-5 banelings at the opponents third and sometimes natural if I can get burrow and banes before they set up to do an early build destroy, which requires destroying it almost immediately after building, double tapping unburrow on accident causes a slight delay that may give the opponent enough time to manually cancel production.

The rally key seems unusually out of the way (though I suppose since Right Mouse does this, they feel there is no reason for a hotkey). However, has anyone run into problems with having to correct hatchery rally points between Worker and units? I imagine having to reach for D and R in game would be really slow and frustrating when you're just trying to fix a mis-click.

Finally, I'm having the most trouble with using , in conjunction with Nydus and/or overlords. This is the single hardest key to press with the Core layout for me, even doing it slowly and concentrating on it while looking at the keyboard, it's a slow and uncomfortable finger position if you keep your Pinky on J (I've been bringing down my middle finger instead just to speed it up, but that occasionally shifts my home position when I correct).

Most of the keys seem to be designed well in conjunction with what you use next, but I'm really curious what the reasoning behind , for overlords and Nydus is, as the load and unload are very far from eachother (making quick drop and pickup micro-projectile-avoiding nearly impossible for me with this setup). I also don't notice using , anywhere else. I know not that many people use overlords or nydus, but it seems at least common enough to merit a more natural key. Any suggestions on something closer to the middle or index finger, or from anyone that has successfully used pickup projectile micro on The Core?

Has anyone else found a better position setting for loading units into overlords, or a way of loading and unloading micro with the way the setup is now?



There are many players that use 3 or even 2 fingers when playing Sc2 right now. This is incredibly inefficient. TheCore fully utilizes all 5 fingers, this might seem uncomfortable while you work up the coordination, but it shouldn't take more than a couple weeks. The pinky has more potential for strength, speed, and dexterity than the index. It is connected to the strongest muscle groups in the hand. (2nd only to the thumb). Unlock the power of the pinky!

Having burrow on separate keys actually allows for a cool roach burrow micro trick: hold down the key for burrow, and now to burrow you need only to click Didn't realize the conflict on the baneling, nice catch. I'll fix it asap

We have not found practical uses for the rally keys. Can you think of any situations where it would be of use, where right click doesn't do it as well, or better?

I'm not familiar with your last issue. Any zergs feeling the same way? Any solutions out there?
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Reckie
Profile Joined December 2012
United States7 Posts
July 17 2013 04:27 GMT
#5089
I dont understand the small/medium/large when trying to pick a file. This should be explained, or perhaps im just ignorant. Anyone?
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
July 17 2013 04:38 GMT
#5090
Jak, which issue do you mean where you say "last issue" in the post 2 above this?
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
astazha
Profile Joined June 2013
United States29 Posts
July 17 2013 04:51 GMT
#5091
On July 17 2013 13:27 Reckie wrote:
I dont understand the small/medium/large when trying to pick a file. This should be explained, or perhaps im just ignorant. Anyone?


Hand size. If you look at the "home row" keys for the right-handed setups, it will either be H-U-I-O, J-I-O-P, or K-O-P-[ while your thumb is over Ctrl and Shift. Can you reach Alt with your thumb? Can you reach some of the further keys with your fingers? See which setup feels most comfortable to your hand. If someone has generated a more exact way to determine which you should use, I am unaware of it.
All hail the Overgoat!
Reckie
Profile Joined December 2012
United States7 Posts
July 17 2013 05:02 GMT
#5092
Well I have a Macbook pro so I cant do the whole tilt thing. Guess I'm not downloading
teuthida
Profile Joined March 2013
United States104 Posts
July 17 2013 05:36 GMT
#5093
On July 17 2013 14:02 Reckie wrote:
Well I have a Macbook pro so I cant do the whole tilt thing. Guess I'm not downloading


Yeah, won't work so well on a laptop built in keyboard. Do you have a USB keyboard you can use?
Slashiepie
Profile Joined May 2013
107 Posts
July 17 2013 11:03 GMT
#5094
On July 17 2013 14:02 Reckie wrote:
Well I have a Macbook pro so I cant do the whole tilt thing. Guess I'm not downloading


It works without tilting, tbh i barely tilt my keyboard and the only key i removed was the Function Key.
Reckie
Profile Joined December 2012
United States7 Posts
July 18 2013 05:48 GMT
#5095
I've gotten a USB keyboard, but now I'm having trouble with the download. Could someone explain how to download this on a mac?
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3599 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 09:04:31
July 18 2013 09:02 GMT
#5096
This question surely has been asked before, but I couldn't find an answer in the OP:
german keyboard, zrs:
create ctrlgroup 1: ctrl + shift + j, select it: p, add sth. to it: ctrl + alt + j
create crtlgroup 2: ctrl + shift + p, select it: shift + p, add sth: ctrl + p

in my brain, this makes no sense at all. ctrl + alt + j is completely uncomfortable to press, and the fact that the calling hotkey is different to the add/create hotkey doesn't make it much better.

1a2a feels okay with the sequence p - j - shift+p - j, but the adding process generates a huge knot in both my hand and my head. but maybe I'm just stupid. so what's the reasoning behind this quirky setup?
another question: why is select larva on the same key as build drone?
first we make expand, then we defense it.
Slashiepie
Profile Joined May 2013
107 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 12:13:18
July 18 2013 11:54 GMT
#5097
Suggestion for polishing the Core even more.

Make the Control Group Numbers match the Cam Numbers too.

Tbh i recognize this is simply nitpicking from my part since most people wont be even thinking in numbers after using it for long.(maybe). Here is an example of what i mean:

Create Control Group 5 and its CTR+L but Create Camera 5 is Alt + Ctrl + 0.

This could perhaps also serve as motivation to organize all Groups into a chronological system on the keyboard.
Since they are kind of randomly scattered (well they are scattered by ease of use, but one will not really think in those terms when searching for them).

Again: all of this is definitively not game breaking and barely relevant, but i feel it helps raise intuitiveness and make the Core even easier to learn ^^.

Besides, if everything can be perfectly/systematically organized. Why not?


Hancho
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany89 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 12:12:18
July 18 2013 12:11 GMT
#5098
On July 18 2013 18:02 virpi wrote:
[..] ctrl + alt + j is completely uncomfortable to press [...]

german keyboards have no right alt key
they have instead a AltGr key
if you press AltGr it is like pressing ctrl + alt
=> AltGr + j

virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3599 Posts
July 18 2013 12:28 GMT
#5099
On July 18 2013 21:11 Hancho wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2013 18:02 virpi wrote:
[..] ctrl + alt + j is completely uncomfortable to press [...]

german keyboards have no right alt key
they have instead a AltGr key
if you press AltGr it is like pressing ctrl + alt
=> AltGr + j

well, if that's really enough, I'll give it a try. I was pressing ctrl, altgr and j and this felt pretty terrible. I want to rebuild my mechanics from scratch, so trying out a new hotkey layout felt like a natural thing to do.
first we make expand, then we defense it.
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
July 18 2013 13:51 GMT
#5100
On July 18 2013 21:28 virpi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2013 21:11 Hancho wrote:
On July 18 2013 18:02 virpi wrote:
[..] ctrl + alt + j is completely uncomfortable to press [...]

german keyboards have no right alt key
they have instead a AltGr key
if you press AltGr it is like pressing ctrl + alt
=> AltGr + j

well, if that's really enough, I'll give it a try. I was pressing ctrl, altgr and j and this felt pretty terrible. I want to rebuild my mechanics from scratch, so trying out a new hotkey layout felt like a natural thing to do.

Hancho's answer is correct. Regarding the odd set-up for the one control group in the zerg layout, this is designed to optimize queen injections. You won't want to 1a2a with that control group. It's designed to be used for queens. It makes it easy to hold down shift, recall queens, hit the inject key, and then cycle through base cams to inject your hatches.
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