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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 238

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
June 10 2013 17:48 GMT
#4741
If it could be done, what about normal left click?
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
June 10 2013 18:05 GMT
#4742
Well, if it IS possible to reassign left and right click, then there's more that could be done than making left click attack move. Maybe for example making right click attack move and J click simple move (switching attack move and move commands), or stuff of that nature.
jjakji fan
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 18:08:34
June 10 2013 18:05 GMT
#4743
On June 11 2013 02:43 slowbacontron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2013 02:31 JaKaTaK wrote:
This deserves its own post.


HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Left click as attack move is amazing. Can we do this in Sc2?!

But what if you have marines selected and then left click an SCV? I am confused.


hmmm, any workarounds? the basic idea is to have something else for select, but i suppose it might not be an advantage. Perhaps something with alternate binds, I literally just started considering this, so let's hash it out together.

EDIT:
The advantage of having left click atttack move right click move is supreme stutter stepping.

Even bigger, then entire unit ability layout comes in one key. Imagine feedback and psistorm both on home keys. etc etc
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Dragnmn
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands52 Posts
June 10 2013 18:11 GMT
#4744
@VerdeCreed

Nice one there, I am going to look into that to adapt it for Dota2, which unfortunately is completely user-unfriendly when it comes to binding shift and control, as in you can't do it. I'd have to figure out where all the keys go.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 20:16:01
June 10 2013 18:19 GMT
#4745
EDIT:

In order to check further optimizations, we need to understand exactly how all of the things in unit management work that are by default set to left or right click. So:

Choose Ping Target
Selection
Smart Commands
Cancel Targeting
Choose Ability or A.I. Target
Move Minimap Camera [Normal Mode]
Move Minimap Camera [Targeting Mode]

This is what I have so far

Choose Ping Target - probably self explanatory, not really interested in it.
Selection - Selecting units/buildings, making boxes. Can be set to any combination of keys. Is automatically modified with ctrl and shift for their various tasks.
Smart Commands - when you do this to the ground its a move command,
do it to a friendly unit, its a follow command
do it to an enemy unit, its an attack command
Cancel Targeting - self explanatory, cancels targeting...
Choose Ability or A.I. Target - this what is used for rapid fire. it can be bound without unbinding regular keys
Move Minimap Camera [Normal Mode] - click moves the minimap
Move Minimap Camera [Targeting Mode] - ?

EDIT2:

I've spent as much time as I can today looking at options. If anyone comes up with more information please share it.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
June 10 2013 20:42 GMT
#4746
On June 11 2013 03:19 JaKaTaK wrote:
EDIT:

In order to check further optimizations, we need to understand exactly how all of the things in unit management work that are by default set to left or right click. So:

Choose Ping Target
Selection
Smart Commands
Cancel Targeting
Choose Ability or A.I. Target
Move Minimap Camera [Normal Mode]
Move Minimap Camera [Targeting Mode]

This is what I have so far

Choose Ping Target - probably self explanatory, not really interested in it.
Selection - Selecting units/buildings, making boxes. Can be set to any combination of keys. Is automatically modified with ctrl and shift for their various tasks.
Smart Commands - when you do this to the ground its a move command,
do it to a friendly unit, its a follow command
do it to an enemy unit, its an attack command
Cancel Targeting - self explanatory, cancels targeting...
Choose Ability or A.I. Target - this what is used for rapid fire. it can be bound without unbinding regular keys
Move Minimap Camera [Normal Mode] - click moves the minimap
Move Minimap Camera [Targeting Mode] - ?

EDIT2:

I've spent as much time as I can today looking at options. If anyone comes up with more information please share it.

Move Minimap Camera [Targeting Mode] - Smart Command for the minimap
ChubbyDelicious
Profile Joined March 2012
United States20 Posts
June 10 2013 22:38 GMT
#4747
When you say left handed and right handed, are you talking about our writing hand or the hand we use our keyboards with? I apologize if this has been asked, i'm not entirely sure how to just search threads on TL.
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
June 10 2013 22:43 GMT
#4748
Dominant hand. So TRM is Terran, "write with right hand", medium.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 10 2013 23:30 GMT
#4749
10. Which version do I download?
+ Show Spoiler +
TheCore uses a simple Acronym to help you find the version that is right for you. The first letter stands for the race: Protoss, Terran, Zerg, or Random. The second letter stand for the hand you use the mouse with: Left or Right. The third letter stands for the size: Small, Medium, or Large.


Generally speaking, check out the FAQ before asking a question. Its probably there. Don't worry about scouring through the whole thread, we've collected the basics and put em in the OP :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
garrett345
Profile Joined August 2012
Czech Republic12 Posts
June 11 2013 04:35 GMT
#4750
Jakatak, have you seen Innovation's FPVOD? He uses M for marine, P for patrol and U for fucking unload. This is your big chance to change professional SC2!

http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_osl2/b/414479387?t=6h44m15s
asdfasdf
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
June 11 2013 04:47 GMT
#4751
Pros would be able to alleviate so much of their hand and wrist stress and play even faster with TheCore, I think. Problem is, the only way to convince them to give up their old ways would be for Sanddbox to beat them in a Bo7 *wink cough*

*wink*
jjakji fan
lailaiwd
Profile Joined October 2012
United States65 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 07:45:23
June 11 2013 07:29 GMT
#4752
I know this question is probably answered before but I'm not sure about where to look for the answer so I'll just ask again. Is there any reason we need to set control groups with both control and shift pressed? Couldn't we just leave it like the default where control is both selecting the same units and setting control groups and shift as selecting more units and adding to an existing control group? I find pressing control and shift together a little tiring because I constantly reset 3-4 of my control groups with every new cycle of units.

Edit: oops I forgot that shift activates the camera hotkeys.......at this point i'm just wondering if there's any possibility of relieving the stress on my thumb when I press control+shift consecutively..

Edit #2: since I reset my CG from .(period) to ] , I have period freed up and I wondered if using period to activate my camera hotkeys is a solution. That could free up more space for control and shift, allowing them to use default settings. Another option I'm thinking could be use enter to activate camera hotkeys. If you guys find my logic wrong please tell me.

Since the enter keys and period keys are relatively hard to press I was wondering if I could reset them to setting camera hotkeys instead of activating cam hotkeys. That would leave alt, which is relatively easier to press for camera activation, which is used more often in game.
In Mvp I trust.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
June 11 2013 07:46 GMT
#4753
On June 11 2013 16:29 lailaiwd wrote:
I know this question is probably answered before but I'm not sure about where to look for the answer so I'll just ask again. Is there any reason we need to set control groups with both control and shift pressed? Couldn't we just leave it like the default where control is both selecting the same units and setting control groups and shift as selecting more units and adding to an existing control group? I find pressing control and shift together a little tiring because I constantly reset 3-4 of my control groups with every new cycle of units.

Edit: oops I forgot that shift activates the camera hotkeys.......at this point i'm just wondering if there's any possibility of relieving the stress on my thumb when I press control+shift consecutively..

Edit #2: since I reset my CG from .(period) to ] , I have period freed up and I wondered if using period to activate my camera hotkeys is a solution. That could free up more space for control and shift, allowing them to use default settings. Another option I'm thinking could be use enter to activate camera hotkeys. If you guys find my logic wrong please tell me.

What situations are you in where you need to reset your control groups so much as opposed to just adding to them?
jjakji fan
lailaiwd
Profile Joined October 2012
United States65 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 08:06:08
June 11 2013 07:52 GMT
#4754
@slowbacontron some situations include when I miss select units and set them to wrong control groups, which happens more often when I use all my control groups; when I send out units to xel naga towers or to critical paths for scouting, I need to reset my main army hotkey; when I send a special force like ghosts and medivacs to do a certain task, that requires me to reset the whole unit group; when I change the CG of my entire layout since early game layouts are different from midgame and lategame layouts, and when my army composition has to change. These are so far things I can think of.

Edit: also the problem of resetting hotkeys shocked me when I started to play Darglein's Multitask trainer because suppose you have one CG for your whole army and 3-4 other CGs for different types of units within your main army, every time you send one group of units within your main army to do something else, you would have to reset both your main army CG and the specific unit type's CG. An example of this would be when I send 2 marines to control two xelnaga towers, if I only reset my main army CG, my marine type CG still contains those two sent away marines. Another example would be when I use marauders to snipe high templars, I would have to reset both my main army CG and my marauder CG because I need to control my entire marauder army even AFTER two of them are sent out for special mission.
In Mvp I trust.
Beedebdoo
Profile Joined June 2013
130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 09:13:31
June 11 2013 09:12 GMT
#4755
As to the idea of attack move on a mouse button;

it can't be done in the ingame editor, so I fiddled around with the hotkeys in notepad. it seems like putting mouse buttons on commands (anything in the command card) causes the game to crash, or simply unbinds the key. So it might not be possible implement that design, though I hope our mighty wizard can come up with something or elaborate

In any case, I doubt it would be legal tournament wise, if you can't do it in the game hotkey editor itself.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
June 11 2013 09:27 GMT
#4756
Lailaiwd, those situations you described do show good reasons why you'd want the modifiers to be in their original functions. You'll have to wait for someone else to comment on that :/
jjakji fan
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 13:28:30
June 11 2013 13:25 GMT
#4757
These arguments do not show that the modifiers should be in their original positions.

What they show is that create control group is an important function. And it is. In the original design of TheCore, the standard modifiers were used. But the question isn't whether create control group is important, it's how important is it relative to adding control groups and selecting cams.

I think it's pretty clear that adding is used more than creating.

Recalling bases cams is the primary system of moving withing the core, and how we inject/chrono/mule. I think it is much more probable that this function is used more than creating control groups rather than vice versa (especially if one plays while minimizing error).

So, out of the 3 modified functions, create seems to simply be the least used. Unfortunately we can't make new modifiers, so we need to use control shift for something.

The above argument is one for why we should keep the modifiers as they are for reasons of frequency. The other reason for the new setup is that it aligns better with the mouse functions activated by modifiers. Ctrl click selects all of a unit. This is great after 12 marines just came out of 6 raxs, or for egg hot keying. Ctrl click key is way better than ctrl click shift key, because it is hard to go from ctrl only to shift.

On the other side of the equation, ctrl shift click deselects, which is awesome for creating new control groups for things like sending off squads from the main army, or for making banes (i highly recommend anyome who hasent check out Jaks video about banelings on YouTube/thejakatakshow).

All in all, your point is a good one, I'm just not convicted that it provides enough evidence against the current setup.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
June 11 2013 13:42 GMT
#4758
On June 11 2013 16:29 lailaiwd wrote:
I know this question is probably answered before but I'm not sure about where to look for the answer so I'll just ask again. Is there any reason we need to set control groups with both control and shift pressed? Couldn't we just leave it like the default where control is both selecting the same units and setting control groups and shift as selecting more units and adding to an existing control group? I find pressing control and shift together a little tiring because I constantly reset 3-4 of my control groups with every new cycle of units.

If you find it tiring, then try some stretches and finger exercises.

On June 11 2013 16:29 lailaiwd wrote:
Edit: oops I forgot that shift activates the camera hotkeys.......at this point i'm just wondering if there's any possibility of relieving the stress on my thumb when I press control+shift consecutively..

I just have my thumb constantly over Ctrl+Shift. I raise the back of my thumb slightly to press Shift and I raise the front to press Ctrl. It's better for me at least; I don't know about you.

On June 11 2013 16:29 lailaiwd wrote:
Edit #2: since I reset my CG from .(period) to ] , I have period freed up and I wondered if using period to activate my camera hotkeys is a solution. That could free up more space for control and shift, allowing them to use default settings. Another option I'm thinking could be use enter to activate camera hotkeys. If you guys find my logic wrong please tell me.

Enter is not a modifier key.

On June 11 2013 16:29 lailaiwd wrote:
Since the enter keys and period keys are relatively hard to press I was wondering if I could reset them to setting camera hotkeys instead of activating cam hotkeys. That would leave alt, which is relatively easier to press for camera activation, which is used more often in game.

It doesn't sound like a good idea at all to move your thumb so far just to recall a camera...

If you barely ever use cameras, though, then go for it. There is no doubt in my mind that cameras are very efficient, though, especially for constructing buildings.
teuthida
Profile Joined March 2013
United States104 Posts
June 11 2013 14:21 GMT
#4759
I have never found ctrl-shift to be that tiring but of course these things are different for everybody. Two things it could be:

1. It could be your particular keyboard is such that it makes pressing those keys uncomfortable.
2. check your tilt is at the right angle / far enough. If it isn't that can make it hard or uncomfortable to press that combination.

As Antylamon said, doing some stretches and stuff may help, I think you'll find you build up the strength to work it fairly quickly.
Slashiepie
Profile Joined May 2013
107 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-11 14:53:54
June 11 2013 14:51 GMT
#4760
Left click as attack is not hard to do if you have the right mouse with the right software, just bind left click to J (Attack Key) and make it only work on SC2.

Stutter stepping might be a sick benefit, but we would have to never forget to use the move command for runbies, and situations where we dont want the nearest thing getting attacked.
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