EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 22
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treekiller
United States236 Posts
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On June 21 2012 12:02 treekiller wrote: Can you consider a keyboard layout that uses the spacebar for shift, or is that not possible. 1. The space bar is THE. WORST. key on base jiop. Unless you're planning on an improved base asdf, don't move shift to the space bar. 2. Impossible with only the Blizz hotkey editor because of shift+click. OP: After watching theJakatak today then thinking a little, I came up with a brilliant idea. Why not use ctrl+j for Ultralisk? Then when HotS comes out, why not use ctrl+i and ctrl+k for viper and swarm host? I'm pretty sure it's possible to add ctrl or alt to any key. Better yet, this could revolutionize the efficiency of this layout if done correctly. I haven't seen you use ctrl for anything but control groups, so why not use it more often? | ||
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Tzuborg
Norway171 Posts
On June 21 2012 13:22 Antylamon wrote: OP: After watching theJakatak today then thinking a little, I came up with a brilliant idea. Why not use ctrl+j for Ultralisk? Then when HotS comes out, why not use ctrl+i and ctrl+k for viper and swarm host? I'm pretty sure it's possible to add ctrl or alt to any key. Sadly it's not. On June 21 2012 13:22 Antylamon wrote: 1. The space bar is THE. WORST. key on base jiop. Unless you're planning on an improved base asdf, don't move shift to the space bar. 2. Impossible with only the Blizz hotkey editor because of shift+click. While I completely agree space would be horrible for that specific purpose, I disagree that it makes for a bad key in general. It's really easy to hit because of it's size, and easy to combine with shift. Personally I'm using it for location cam where I build my depots, and it has not only helped drastically with my supply block issue, but also in strongly improving the aesthetics of my base  | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I'll be live in about 30 minutes to take more questions and work on the 0.2 edit some more. Please tune in and add your constructive ideas. http://www.twitch.tv/thejakatak EDIT: Going live now! | ||
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CalebGT
1 Post
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wc4482
United States45 Posts
I'll let someone else explain the control group changes - BUT the major change for non mouse version is to use O instead of P for your hatches. This will ensure that you are not repeating the use of the index finger for both select hatches "O" and select larvae "[". It is much much faster to use the middle finger followed by the index for this purpose. Zerg RRM 0.2 For everything not listed, see 0.1 screenshot and switch "J" and "I". (J given higher priority since pinky stronger - also ordering on keys matches ordering on screen.) https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0eXTHUjDTgGaVpRS1lSM2xCbjA Zerg RRM 0.1 Pre- June 21 update https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0eXTHUjDTgGelZJM3RPc01YRVU | ||
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Morrok
United States18 Posts
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wc4482
United States45 Posts
On June 22 2012 12:22 Morrok wrote: Hey I think this is really cool, but I am having trouble with the control groups. What keys do I bind my main army, harrass army, hatches, queens, etc. to? And how do i do my injects. I used to bind my queens to 5-6-7-8, but i am assuming you bind them all to one hotkey, so do i inject via the minimap since there is no way to go to each queen individually. Watch this Jakatak video where he shows Littlefoot how to layer inject, as well as practice faster injects while spreading creep. Start watching at 7:30 or watch the whole thing. http://www.twitch.tv/thejakatak/b/322024942 Keep in mind Littlefoot has slightly different key presses since she uses chameleon layout. Instead of Q, W, A, S, Z, X use J I O P and ; for the Core. | ||
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asdir
Germany39 Posts
On June 22 2012 12:16 wc4482 wrote: So version 0.2 is uploaded in OP. I compiled screen shots for a list of zerg specific key bindings. Zerg RRM 0.2 For everything not listed, see 0.1 screenshot and switch "J" and "I". (J given higher priority since pinky stronger - also ordering on keys matches ordering on screen.) https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0eXTHUjDTgGaVpRS1lSM2xCbjA Zerg RRM 0.1 Pre- June 21 update https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0eXTHUjDTgGelZJM3RPc01YRVU I have to admit, I am not sure if I really understand why larvae are on [, a non-resting key. Did you do this to avoid double tap? The switch for the control groups to / is because of the terran/protoss production buildings, right? I am not sure if this might underuse my thumb as Zerg. Also: Will there be a full list of changes in the log or a keyboard chart as before? That would make the translation to German easier for me. (It's easier for me to change my German setup than redo the translation from the current American version.) Thanks for the png though. Should make the translation easier at any rate. :-) edit: Just read up on older posts. Jakatak commented on the [-larvae. It's to avoid double tap. Well, I will just have to trust our BDFL and try it out. :-) | ||
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scrub96
United States76 Posts
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wc4482
United States45 Posts
On June 22 2012 19:06 scrub96 wrote: played some games with this updated layout last night. I definitely prefer the old version. Going to ] and ' for build keys feels absolutely terrible vs the old / and . keys. Have some more camer keys close is nice but I really dont think this is an improvement over the old version. Feels strange to me too but i'm going to give it a week before i make any conclusions. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On June 22 2012 19:06 scrub96 wrote: played some games with this updated layout last night. I definitely prefer the old version. Going to ] and ' for build keys feels absolutely terrible vs the old / and . keys. Have some more camer keys close is nice but I really dont think this is an improvement over the old version. ... ... ... Do you have 7 fingers? The biggest issue with the original version of theCore was the movement of the thumb required to make a building. It was moved to a more comfortable position so that you could actually hit them without stressing your thumb. If it really feels more comfortable to use slash and period for buildings, then either you're doing it wrong or your hands are tiny or... I have no idea. | ||
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maLaK1
Germany124 Posts
On June 22 2012 20:00 Antylamon wrote: ... ... ... Do you have 7 fingers? The biggest issue with the original version of theCore was the movement of the thumb required to make a building. It was moved to a more comfortable position so that you could actually hit them without stressing your thumb. If it really feels more comfortable to use slash and period for buildings, then either you're doing it wrong or your hands are tiny or... I have no idea. i agree the thumb thing was actually one of the weakest points of the old layout this is a huge improvement in my opinion, ( also fungal on K instead of thumb ) the only weakness I see now is the layout for zergs, because its not zerg specific playing zerg is a lot different than the other 2 races, especially the morphing units part while the inject method is very good, I think the whole select Hatcheries Morph larva thing could be improved the actual keys for drone/ling/overlord are optimal I think but maybe theres a better spot for the Select Larva Hotkey also with Queens on J, you often build queens accidently, most zerg players spam "4sd" all game, at least all early game in the case of this layout, when you have 0 larva and spam P + ; + J to build drones as fast as your larva spawns you could often build a queen when you want to build a drone and you have no free larva I don't agree that you're supposed to look at your larva and only spam Select Larva + Build Drone when you have free larva because, it isn't like that for zerg, compared to terran or protoss for example , where it is good to not queue too many scvs/probes and look at the building progress of your worker, to add a new worker shortly before the last one finishes almost all zerg players do it, its the most common thing and the reason is to use the larva as fast as possible its basically everything zergs do the first 6-8 minutes of a game | ||
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Ellessar_GR
United States37 Posts
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cabboose
New Zealand18 Posts
All in all I think it is a really nice fresh way to get back into starcraft 2, if you feel the games getting stale, or you have hit a rather nasty sheer cliff face, it makes you think again, it pulls you out of the zone or rut you where in before, ultimately I think I will become miles better than I was before I started using it just out of sheer psychological refreshment. | ||
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wc4482
United States45 Posts
while the inject method is very good, I think the whole select Hatcheries Morph larva thing could be improved the actual keys for drone/ling/overlord are optimal I think but maybe theres a better spot for the Select Larva Hotkey also with Queens on J, you often build queens accidently, most zerg players spam "4sd" all game, at least all early game in the case of this layout, when you have 0 larva and spam P + ; + J to build drones as fast as your larva spawns you could often build a queen when you want to build a drone and you have no free larva I don't agree that you're supposed to look at your larva and only spam Select Larva + Build Drone when you have free larva because, it isn't like that for zerg, compared to terran or protoss for example , where it is good to not queue too many scvs/probes and look at the building progress of your worker, to add a new worker shortly before the last one finishes almost all zerg players do it, its the most common thing and the reason is to use the larva as fast as possible its basically everything zergs do the first 6-8 minutes of a game I forgot to mention that Jakatak intended for hatcheries to now be bound to O, not P as in the old version. This way you can use your middle finger for O to select hatches and then index will extend one key to the right to the [ key to select larvae. As far as spamming, try just spamming O [ O [ O [ O [. When larvae spawns you will notice the wireframe at the bottom of the screen change and you can then hit J. This seems to be the only way to spam in the core. It will take some getting used to and if you can't get behind it then you may just want to modify the core for your own purposes and change queens to some other key. | ||
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asdir
Germany39 Posts
On June 22 2012 21:56 wc4482 wrote: I forgot to mention that Jakatak intended for hatcheries to now be bound to O, not P as in the old version. This way you can use your middle finger for O to select hatches and then index will extend one key to the right to the [ key to select larvae. As far as spamming, try just spamming O [ O [ O [ O [. When larvae spawns you will notice the wireframe at the bottom of the screen change and you can then hit J. This seems to be the only way to spam in the core. It will take some getting used to and if you can't get behind it then you may just want to modify the core for your own purposes and change queens to some other key. But isn't the whole point of spamming that you don't have to wait to notice but can concentrate on other things? I wouldn't discount this as part of the game so easily. I for one was pretty happy when drone and overlord were switched between I and J in Core 0.1 and I could happily spam away again without accidentally building OLs. Though I have not tried new 0.2 yet, I don't see double tapping being a problem, as long as it is used for a unit that is spammed out anyway. I am wondering right now if difference in opinion here might be due to different keyboard repeat rates of players....hmmmmm | ||
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maLaK1
Germany124 Posts
On June 22 2012 22:27 asdir wrote: I am wondering right now if difference in opinion here might be due to different keyboard repeat rates of players....hmmmmm also its a very zerg specific thing, unless you play zerg you'll think its not a big deal, | ||
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wc4482
United States45 Posts
On June 22 2012 22:27 asdir wrote: But isn't the whole point of spamming that you don't have to wait to notice but can concentrate on other things? I wouldn't discount this as part of the game so easily. I for one was pretty happy when drone and overlord were switched between I and J in Core 0.1 and I could happily spam away again without accidentally building OLs. Though I have not tried new 0.2 yet, I don't see double tapping being a problem, as long as it is used for a unit that is spammed out anyway. I am wondering right now if difference in opinion here might be due to different keyboard repeat rates of players....hmmmmm In my own experience, i found that spamming select larvae > morph drone throughout the early-mid game in between other actions really helped me drone up super fast, but when the time came to build other units i was having larvae management problems. When I adopted the core I couldn't spam in the same way I once did because I would create too many accidental queens. This forced me to work on my larvae management, whereas until this point I relied on blind spam. You might also find that stepping out of the comfort zone of "1sd" or other drone creation spam will push your game to another level. You just have to be willing to accept the challenge. As far as "noticing" when the wireframe changes at the bottom of the screen, I'm not saying you stare at the bottom of the screen the whole time you are spamming O [ O [ O [ O [. Your peripheral vision will notice the giant green hatchery wireframe switch to a smaller green larvae wireframe without having to look at it. Just practice it a bit more and you will get the idea. | ||
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maLaK1
Germany124 Posts
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