EPThttps://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/commits/master/USQwerty
Click on the last commit, by default it displays the text differences against previous version. The previous one was the state from version 2.3.0 with CapsLock heavily used
[G] TheCore Lite - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 46
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bobo38
France220 Posts
https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/commits/master/USQwerty Click on the last commit, by default it displays the text differences against previous version. The previous one was the state from version 2.3.0 with CapsLock heavily used | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
So you guys don't move your hand while playing with corelite layout? If you have a big hand and long fingers it might be possible to not move it, but I think for everyone else there will be a little bit of side to side movement. I have a palm rest on my keyboard and my palm never moves from that spot.Where can I see changes you made in last version of corelite?(capslock etc) If you want to see the high level details, you can check them under the releases.For more detailed changes, you can look at the commits, but be warned, they can be a bit overwhelming. | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
The key that bothers me the most is Control, by itself it forces the hand to do so painful moves. TheCore Lite would be closer to perfect if I could exchange Alt with Control (moving map Alt on one of the mouse button) For some reason, the software (evrouter on Linux) I use for my keyboard/mouse hacks, cannot deal with it. Using it, I was able to make those changes only actives for Starcraft2: – map CapsLock to BackSpace and get a RapidFire behavior – map Back/ForwardMouseButton to mouse wheel in place of side button – assign one of those buttons to Control, and use the other to launch a loop read of an homemade zerg cycle track with some sounds for inject eggs, make overlords and so one | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
The other thing that I find awkward with the layout is creating camera locations (they require some weird hand contortions for me). Since you only setup your base cameras at the beginning of the game, it doesn't really bother me that much. I'm very happy to have things I only need to do once or twice be uncomfortable if it means that everything else is a lot easier. | ||
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Gubert
15 Posts
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
The camera synergies with QWASZX works wonderful, because you can just hold shift and press the button to go to the location. This is great for rallying building workers back to mine or to send some of your army to defend a drop. Same with Ctrl - it has a nice synergy since Ctrl + click gives you all units of a specific type. If you keep holding control and then press a group, you have added those units to a control group and removed them from the others. Very nice and easy. What is your resting position for your hand? I think that it might be what is causing you frustrations. | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
– left click on 1st base – Alt hold with thumb + Tab + Q + W add the base to relevant macro group (your hand slightly move on the left part of the keyboard) – left click on minimap, then Alt+A|S|Z|X in a descending hand move – at the end thumb back on Space, hand back on rest position Why do you feel that it's painful? The main goal is to minimize unnecessary moves, but when there are 10 control groups, 8 locations and 10+ keys to access used commands, at some point the hand needs to move to cover the layout. Using F1 to F4 for camera location hardly help in not moving hand, or I missed something | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
Alt+A|S|Z|X is a bit uncomfortable for me, but since this is only at start-up and while there is nothing else to do, I am happy with this compromise. Unit creation is mostly on the two columns next to your control groups, so should be as comfortable as a person can get while still keeping the control groups close at hand. The only place where I think the unit creation can be uncomfortable is with zerg, but that is because they have so many units. The late game and less frequently used units require the furthest hand movement, so is also probably as comfortable as you can get it. | ||
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Gubert
15 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:12 MilExo wrote: Gubert, it would be interesting to get your feedback here. Sorry i dont understand the question if there is one. =) (my english is poor ) | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
On October 29 2017 16:17 bobo38 wrote: the creation of camera is not that uncomfortable from my point of view: – left click on 1st base – Alt hold with thumb + Tab + Q + W add the base to relevant macro group (your hand slightly move on the left part of the keyboard) – left click on minimap, then Alt+A|S|Z|X in a descending hand move – at the end thumb back on Space, hand back on rest position Why do you feel that it's painful? | ||
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Gubert
15 Posts
its hard to use cams hotkeys, because you need to press two keys and one of these keys is also group key - its slower your actions. i use f1-4 and i need to press only 1 key and this key doesnt connect with groups or adding groups keys so its easier and faster to use. Adding cams isnt a big problem because you doing it not that many times.Still i use shift+tab for center and shift+f1-5 for adding cam - works fine. Corelite has the same problem with control groups ,only cntrl is 2 key command. other group commands are 3 keys . Press shift for cam then shift+alt for group adding etc. while in standart layout you just press f1 for cam and alt or cntrl or shift for adding - its just example of ingame situtaion. Сonclusion:in practice playing with moving hand is better than using these tricky combinations even if these combinations use closer keys. | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
its hard to use cams hotkeys, because you need to press two keys and one of these keys is also group key - its slower your actions. Unless you're spamming camera locations, I think I'll disagree with this and would love to discus it further. There are two main reasons that I can think of where you would want to use your camera locations (zerg has the thrid option for injects, but that has its own pattern which is described in the help file).
Corelite has the same problem with control groups ,only cntrl is 2 key command. other group commands are 3 keys . I'm very interested to hear what scenarios you have where the normal control group add/steal doesn't work. The only one I can think of is when you want the same unit in multiple control groups. | ||
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Gubert
15 Posts
On October 31 2017 01:23 MilExo wrote: Unless you're spamming camera locations, I think I'll disagree with this and would love to discus it further. There are two main reasons that I can think of where you would want to use your camera locations (zerg has the thrid option for injects, but that has its own pattern which is described in the help file).
I'm very interested to hear what scenarios you have where the normal control group add/steal doesn't work. The only one I can think of is when you want the same unit in multiple control groups. i use steal add add and steal create, when i used corelite groups i used only add steal because it was hard to use other commands, now it feels much better when i use 3 commands easily and fast. Btw more i play more i understand that standart layout is very very good and why pros dont bother changing it much. | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
Btw more i play more i understand that standart layout is very very good and why pros dont bother changing it much. I would not agree to this one: the 1st time I used TheCore Lite, I felt much much more comfortable using hotkeys at all, I tried TheStaircase with all races and realized that all keys are same for all races. This simple E for Extractor, A for Assimilator and R for Raffinery is a killer for Classic layout to off-race! For grid, it's another story, the point being the group 6 to 0 being kind of out of range, and the inflexibility with respect to RapidFire aspects If you want something different feel free to modify a starting point. Then it's just a matter of choosing the starting point that best fits your needs, and cherrypick ideas from different sources and assemble them together. Have fun | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
Also remember that a pro gets their income from playing. So it isn't really good to start playing worse for a while to learn a new layout in the hopes that it will be better later on, since you won't be able to be as competitive in tournaments while learning the new layout and thus earn less. Ultimately, there is no "best" hotkey layout and it really boils down to what you are comfortable with. My problem with grid was the number of control groups that is easily accessible. This wasn't a problem when I started out in bronze, but as I got better I needed more army control groups while keeping my production control groups and the (custom) grid that I used when SC2 came out was no longer efficient enough. | ||
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Gubert
15 Posts
On November 01 2017 00:46 MilExo wrote: The reason why pros don't change is because they have played so many games, it takes them forever to unlearn certain habits. Ptitdrogo recently mentioned that he struggles to put another army control group on 5 even after trying for a long time. Also remember that a pro gets their income from playing. So it isn't really good to start playing worse for a while to learn a new layout in the hopes that it will be better later on, since you won't be able to be as competitive in tournaments while learning the new layout and thus earn less. Ultimately, there is no "best" hotkey layout and it really boils down to what you are comfortable with. My problem with grid was the number of control groups that is easily accessible. This wasn't a problem when I started out in bronze, but as I got better I needed more army control groups while keeping my production control groups and the (custom) grid that I used when SC2 came out was no longer efficient enough. "Most Koreans use the standard Hotkeys, espacially if they have a BW background. They had teamhouses and coaches, and nobody in that environment thought it was worth investing time into." Some guy from TL | ||
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Gubert
15 Posts
On October 31 2017 20:38 bobo38 wrote: I would not agree to this one: the 1st time I used TheCore Lite, I felt much much more comfortable using hotkeys at all, I tried TheStaircase with all races and realized that all keys are same for all races. This simple E for Extractor, A for Assimilator and R for Raffinery is a killer for Classic layout to off-race! For grid, it's another story, the point being the group 6 to 0 being kind of out of range, and the inflexibility with respect to RapidFire aspects If you want something different feel free to modify a starting point. Then it's just a matter of choosing the starting point that best fits your needs, and cherrypick ideas from different sources and assemble them together. Have fun Agree with you, sc2 hotkeys are easy to change and its awesome. Omg sorry for 2 messages , though i would make the one... | ||
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
"Most Koreans use the standard Hotkeys, espacially if they have a BW background. I've actually seen some interviews with top Korean players and some of them have tried to change their layout, but found it too hard. Remember, they play so many hours each day and are already super fast. Someone who plays around 300 - 400 APM (on an inefficient layout) is probably not going to benefit that much from switching and being able to get an extra 20 APM. They had teamhouses and coaches, and nobody in that environment thought it was worth investing time into." Some guy from TL But I've seen many GM players who don't have very good hotkeys, so you don't need good hotkeys to be good. It is all about knowing what comes, knowing what to do and to be able to do it easily and quickly. | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
https://terrancraft.com/2016/02/24/terran-control-group-set-up/ You can find the setup suggested by MilExo of getting all prod group in a group, and robo & starport in their own groups… I need to add this macro group suggestion to the README.md with the usage of Z and X as suggestion | ||
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bobo38
France220 Posts
– I realized that Shift used for "create group" in TheCore v2.0 could be helpful to use clone to send&forget a unit – Shift for location recall (TheCore v1.0 and TheCore v3.0) is really good for shift queuing to preset places (workers back to mineral, reinforcement at attacked base, queued drops?), and particularly helpful for injects – Control is uncomfortable on standard keyboard, and another placement would be better – Shift+Alt method in TheCore Lite feature is helpful to prevent queuing of SmartCommand¹, i should definitely use it more My initial plan was to swap Control and Alt², but I now realize that it would suck for Shift+Alt usage Next plan for my local copy: On my private copy I will test keeping CapsLock free to use it as another Ctrl key². It will probably prove more comfortable for 123QWAS. Low left Control is definitely more comfortable with Z and X, and helpful for Ctrl+Alt usage for "append non-steal" The new standard CapsLock group would require to be moved to Grave on my local copy (or Tab… need to think more about that). I'm considering to use one of my two lateral mouse buttons for Ctrl as well (a 3rd alternate). It's giving some air for control cam for creep spread, and need to investigate some trick to get some easy selection with this button pressed Now I definitely see better the benefit of freeing CapsLock from any command usage: more air for .SC2Hotkeys hackers :D ______________ ¹ https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#easier-cloning-through-shiftalt ² possible on Linux using https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/StarCraft_2#Use_temporary_XKB_options ³ https://github.com/bobo38/TheCoreLite/blob/master/README.md#additional-cameras-alternates-on-control | ||
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