[G] TheCore Lite - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 33

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 24 2013 01:42 GMT

#641

Here's a concept from yours. I'm also using the mouse buttons for the last 2 control groups but I'm debating that. Obviously I'm curious what you're planning on doing. I like the TAB/CAPS idea, but I'll probably be testing with alternates.

Layout Image

ERTY = core
FGH = group 2 (toggle abils => cloak/siege/burrow/lift)
3456 = group 3 (addon/evolve/load/unload)
TAB/CAPS = build alternates

Might use B for unique abilities like salvage or return cargo... or just move "Stop" left a key.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

November 24 2013 03:09 GMT

#642

you have 19 Ability ability keys there, but you only need 11 (excluding cancel). Its nice to have abilities like upgrades in a certain area for memory purposes, but there's no reason to not use those keys on other command cards as well. What are your ideas with the different groups core, group 2, 3, xtra special etc What do those mean?

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 24 2013 03:16 GMT

#643

Sorry still editing that post...

. It's about 12 keys that I intend to use (not including TAB/CAPS). 5, 6, Y, and H are probably never going to be pressed.

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 24 2013 04:09 GMT

#644

Here's a closer representation of what I am working on. Is it possible to delete posts on this forum? I don't wanna hijack this thread with my own layout so I'll post a reply with my own thread if it comes to that.

Layout Image

Already see an issue with it tho. Command center has both load/unload and addons. Inconsistency FTL. I play Zerg tho, so it's not much of an issue. May just have to think of a replacement for load/unload.

EDIT: Made load/unload RT

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

November 24 2013 04:36 GMT

#645

Making "consistency" in hotkey layouts is one of the most annoying but simultaneously fun tasks. Quick Tip, you can always make load/unload the same as the add-ons :D

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 24 2013 21:49 GMT

#646

...I feel that the Chameleon/DarkGrid style is better. My layout overuses the index finger. This isn't too bad in most cases but it's pretty apparent when playing Zerg and there's different 11 larva selections for a single finger. I still think it's a usable if people want to try it, but I found myself not wanting to use ZX much because they're more difficult to press CTRL/SHIFT with.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

November 24 2013 21:57 GMT

#647

What do you mean by Chameleon/DarkGrid style?

EDIT: Also, Happy Birthday

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 25 2013 00:01 GMT

#648

Thanks. My birthday is tomorrow. Not sure how the website handles timezones. I was a bit confused when I saw it.

By that style I mean CGs with the pointer finger. Chameleon also keeps the CV/BV build command style that feels good. I actually haven't played with either to compare thoroughly. I've been mostly browsing and layouts I can find, but they're not well organized for comparing. There's maybe 4-5 that are even popular. I'm interested in changing mine because I want a comfortable layout where I can use CGs without strain. Perhaps it's just the way I hold the keyboard. It probably wouldn't be an issue if I held my left hand in the air like a pianist instead of resting it on the desk.

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 25 2013 01:10 GMT

#649

Since I put a bit of effort making them, if anybody is interested... here's some layouts diagrams I made for visual comparison. They may contain errors or missing information so please double check for yourself.

Chameleon2 (Jakatak)
DarkGrid (FoxyMayhem)
TheCore RRM (Jakatak/FoxyMayhem/etc)
FleetKeys Alloy (eneyeseekay)

...and for comparison:
Hijack (mine)

eneyeseekay

239 Posts

November 25 2013 03:48 GMT

#650

@ffhighwind

"All-in-one" image.
HigherRes http://i.imgur.com/bmAUbZ8.jpg
LowerRes http://i.imgur.com/2P2LST3.jpg

Alloy looks so out of place next to Hijack and the rest of them (I don't consider it a bad thing though). It's really neat to see a visual comparison of the 5, thanks a lot for that. I assume you chose that mauve color to indicate keys that are free to use?

The vertical arrangements are something I'm not sure about, or rather, I don't exactly know the theory behind it. I'll guess and say that you want to dedicate your 3 or 4 fingers to managing different categories or types of hotkeys? Easiest way to cram them all in without going too far to the right, and provides many instances of alternating keystrokes?

I feel as if the left hand's fingers want to fall/roll from left to right/pinky to index (horizontally), and for me that way feels natural and intuitive. If you can slam out actions by using falling and alternating fingers then I believe you can do things easier and still do them quickly (something, something efficiency). Most of the (Alloy) layout is designed around just that. You can fall on the left side of your keyboard or headbutt Spacebar and you've probably done something productive. The thing I like most about looking at these layouts next to eachother is that the alternating keystroke concept is applied in every layout shown, and I think we can all agree that alternating is good, so yeah it's cool that they all have that in common at least.

If you're up for the challenge, here's a layout that would really stand out next to these as well.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=338610

Unfortunately the presentation isn't really on the same level as the ones in your images. It's an older layout and is heavily modified much like TheCore. It could be interesting to see next to the layouts shown as it's really interesting and thought-out. Who knows maybe it will be updated/overhauled someday, or maybe Kaitlin could create an image for us???

ffhighwind

United States10 Posts

November 25 2013 04:55 GMT

#651

Base J is interesting because it requires programming your keyboard/mouse. I assume this isn't legal in tournaments? It would be nice if this was allowed. I didn't have any mouse image to go along with the diagram, so I didn't bother. That layout is pretty cool, though. It minimizes movement based on the length of the fingers. It also uses ALT with the thumb like TheCore. It only 14 keys and only 1 of those is from the number row. The ones in my diagrams use 19+ for comparison. This is probably a symptom of heavy use of modifiers as mouse buttons to replace keystrokes.

On a side note, viewers should consider my diagram doesn't reflect modifiers used. For example, Alloy requires ALT to be pressed for CGs, but most others don't. I considered making them a darker hue to distinguish this but don't think it's a huge thing.

Also, I was slightly confused on which keys Alloy used for the basic abilities command card. I only listed 3 (ASD). I assume it probably also uses a subset of FZXCV. I know spacebar depends on race.

EDIT: Actually from what I've read you are allowed to change a specific key to a single different key. Not sure if this includes mice.

eneyeseekay

239 Posts

November 25 2013 08:02 GMT

#652

Yeah Spacebar changes based on race by default. Although it's not written in stone that it has to be that way, it just helps injects a lot, and Zerg layouts needs special attention I find, so it wasn't hard deciding to make the P&T and Z versions slightly different. This also seems to be the case with the other layouts as well.

If you're still wondering about the abilities, just look at any Alloy master sheet and see where I put the icons for Build Basic and Build Advanced, like pretty much all abilities they're on A,S,D,F as units don't typically have 4+ abilities. I think F is used only for de-toggling Cloak, and manually loading units into transportation units. Abilities are 99% of the time mapped to A,S or D if there's a third ability. The Smart Key lets you set up a lot of alternating combinations as well despite being "Grid-like" and hosts one ability from pretty much every unit in the game (even structure functions like Chrono, MULES, researches, etc.) so that's why there's a stack of ability icons on Spacebar. Anything I could sensibly move closer I did, so much of the Z,X,C,V abilities are mapped to A,S,D (sometimes F) and the Smart Key.

If there were more solid layouts do you guys think TL would consider having a stickied hotkey layout portal?

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

November 25 2013 16:14 GMT

#653

Woah, that would be crazy. Having a designated hotkey layout portal. I've been trying to get a spotlight for just TheCore for such a long time and they're very hesitant about it. Base J is pretty cool, but its not tournament legal (pretty sure) Kaitlin would know 100%. I assume she's still out and about on the forums.

arcadus

United States2 Posts

November 28 2013 02:51 GMT

#654

On November 23 2013 09:31 JaKaTaK wrote:
That's what TheCore Lite is for :D

Here's what we've got done today. The Basis of the Layout is complete, so you can probably build your own file with this information if you really want TheCore Lite now

why not have the home keys at ASDF, and swap the control groups/cameras with the ability keys? like control groups/cameras on DFER34TG, with abilities, etc on ASQW23ZXCV spacebar, tab, and capslock (just going off of that picture, I'm not sure how many ability keys is needed exactly). this seems more consistent with the core to me. also lets you use two fingers instead of one for using abilities.

ctrl might be a bit hard to reach though, maybe use spacebar instead of ctrl? the thumb is used to add to control groups in the core anyways.

MilExo

South Africa139 Posts

November 28 2013 04:13 GMT

#655

@arcadus: Only Alt, Ctrl and Shift can be used as ability modifiers without using some software to remap the keyboard.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

November 28 2013 04:39 GMT

#656

Its a tricky thing because we can't use the thumb to press ctrl and shift, we then have to fuck with things pretty significantly. If we were to go with your suggestion pressing things like ctrl+shift+G would be create a lot of strain, especially for those with smaller hands. This is why we decided to go with a 1-2-1 split. the pinky and index are for abilities while the 2 middle fingers are for control groups. It's not ideal, but then again, its not TheCore. There's a reason why its on the other side of the keyboard.

As far as ASDF for home keys, this really inhibits the speed of pressing modifiers, (which is really important for starcraft). Taking shift off the home keys is something I think we should avoid at all (or almost all) costs.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 06 2013 00:50 GMT

#657

Small adjustment. T is now an ability, and Tab will be used for next subgroup.

EDIT: The consistency in this layout should be pretty stellar, but its much trickier than I thought it would be. Trying to push this out before the 19th.

Also, I'm making it so that as few things change from the standard layout to TheCore Lite to make it even easier to learn (I hope). But fear not, if it comes to being much more efficient or having some consistency with standard, we'll be going with the more efficient option.

FUN PUZZLE TIME :D

EDIT 2: Considering making 2 versions of this layout. One for WASD homekeys and the other for ASDF homekeys. I realize that touch typers may prefer the latter.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 07 2013 00:51 GMT

#658

TheCore Lite is now available for download:

Campaign and WoL compatibility coming later.

Karnul

United States39 Posts

December 07 2013 15:51 GMT

#659

Very nice so far. I started putting it together and this is very similar to what I had going so far, including adding T as another ability key.

Good call dropping "create group" to ctrl+shift modifiers and using shift for recall camera position. I hadn't thought of that and it probably is used less often than recall camera position.

I haven't used Rapidfire until I started piecing together CoreLite and set it up using Spacebar. It is not implemented yet here?

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 07 2013 18:59 GMT

#660

OH shit! I forgot to add rapid fire. One moment please

EDIT: Rapid Fire is now in place. There are 5 rapid fire alternates (one for each protoss unit for warp ins). And there are a slew of abilities that have rapid fire alternates. To keep it consistent, I made the non-rapid fire the primary key.

Looking forward to more feedback. Thanks for testing

Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 51 Next

Please or register to reply.

[G] TheCore Lite - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 33

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming