On May 14 2012 23:15 JitnikoVi wrote: im not quite sure what im doing wrong, i believe im following the build fairly well but my attack always seems to hit exactly a minute late (in game time), so my first warp in is around 8;40, which often times is a gamble on how greedy the zerg got - often times the roaches are just spawning at this point and i am unable to break them with their mass amount of roaches
(almost always i get the third, but am unable to go further)
If you want to approximately hit the 8min timing, your gates have to go down at sth around 6:30, I guess it's not a problem if you put one less gate in order to attack faster.
I may try this during my next PvZ. the way the build works reminds me of the Korean 4 Gate from PvP. Its basically a 2 base version of that build off an FFE.
Okay... so in my personal experience, this build is really bad... At least when people do idiotic, unexpected shit in diamond. I had one guy take a third hatch and arbitrarily stop droning at 8 drones for the 3rd, and start massing roaches. Needless to say, he had 20+ roaches before I could make much happen. I had another guy blindly go 3 spines at nat and 3 at 3rd and mass ling (okay) into hydras (not ok)... One other guy canceled his third hatch right before it finished and roach allinned me after seeing no gas at my nat because "it could only be warp prism zealot play." In two games, I couldn't use the single stalker to deny scouting by two overlords right when the gates were supposed to go down, and I had to delay them by a full minute while I cleaned up. Needless to say that failed. I'm probably just horrible, but I'm not sure to do with all of this wonky stuff thrown at me, lol...
I've used this build around 10 times with different reactions in game from my opponent. All 10 times, the end result was me winning with the build. Now, as a random player, I'm probably overthinking this, but I have a question:
Without assuming a massive gateway all in and without maphacks, how in the fuck is a zerg supposed to hold this off? Even if he scouts the Artosis Gateway Flower, he won't have enough time to put down spines and react in order to defeat this.
On July 31 2012 12:07 NoisyNinja wrote: I've used this build around 10 times with different reactions in game from my opponent. All 10 times, the end result was me winning with the build. Now, as a random player, I'm probably overthinking this, but I have a question:
Without assuming a massive gateway all in and without maphacks, how in the fuck is a zerg supposed to hold this off? Even if he scouts the Artosis Gateway Flower, he won't have enough time to put down spines and react in order to defeat this.
So I've had the opposite experience (as I posted above), and I'm wondering... when did your pushes hit? Maybe mine were late? What level are you playing at?
Without assuming a massive gateway all in and without maphacks, how in the fuck is a zerg supposed to hold this off? Even if he scouts the Artosis Gateway Flower, he won't have enough time to put down spines and react in order to defeat this.
with the lack of gas at the natural, the zerg just has to sacc the overlord at an earlier time. all-ins like these have been popular for a couple months and zergs just have been getting their roach warren earlier.
also, on some maps like cloud, the zerg can see both main gases and if he sees nothing mining, he'll know something is coming.
I feel like it might be better to take one gas semi earlier (like around 14 or 15) and get a stalker out / maybe a faster +1? but then getting a 2nd gas only for a little bit and then putting guys back on minerals hahah.
1) A very similar build is done by MC, except it is off of 7 gateways and hits at ~7:25 (no +1), which I feel is a much better time since 8:00 is when most Zerg are going to start massing units anyway.
2) As a Zerg, this build is easy to counter by following a few steps: 1) If I don't see gas at the natural by 7:00, I build extra overlords and pool larvae 2) No gas by 7:15, I make nothing but units 3) No gas by 7:30 and I drop a spine at my third. Come at me bro =D
If the your attack fails then the Zerg should just be able to over run you with lings and roaches.
NOTE: I build gas at 5:50 and roach warren/evo at 6:45. It sacrifices a few drones, but leaves me safe to just about any early shenanigans like this and, in my experience, Protoss ALWAYS 2 base all in, so the lost economy is always worth it.
On July 31 2012 12:07 NoisyNinja wrote: I've used this build around 10 times with different reactions in game from my opponent. All 10 times, the end result was me winning with the build. Now, as a random player, I'm probably overthinking this, but I have a question:
Without assuming a massive gateway all in and without maphacks, how in the fuck is a zerg supposed to hold this off? Even if he scouts the Artosis Gateway Flower, he won't have enough time to put down spines and react in order to defeat this.
So I've had the opposite experience (as I posted above), and I'm wondering... when did your pushes hit? Maybe mine were late? What level are you playing at?
Diamond. I dont pull off of gas which allows for me to get armor and stalkers, which eliminates roach kiting. I hit around 8-9 minutes although I dont really pay attention to time. Other than not pulling off of gas, I follow the build given here.
I was actually going to suggest taking only 1 gas, but doing it slightly earlier. 12 gates might be pushing your luck or maybe seal the deal even sooner? Also, what if the zerg opts to stay on 2-base and gets roach/hydra? Would this still be effective?
I was trying to fend this off last night. Went really badly.
I saw a bunch (12+) zealots coming in and morphed in baneling and threw down a additional spines. My three spines and banes made short work of the zealots. And i was like "AHA! Victory! That'll teach you Toss"
I thought he'd have learnt his lesson and stopped his shenanigans but he kept sending more and more and more zealots!
LOL. I was like WHEN WILL THIS END.
It looked like a stalemate but he eventually made headway. lol.
I play terran (mstrs) but like to offrace as toss and vs zerg I use this build. However, I keep on mining gas for twilight and charge. My attack hits at about 8.40 but with +1 and with charge.. It's so fun to watch how they try to kite zealots but really they can't .. anyways, I never lost with this build so far but I guess just didn't meet good zergs yet.
Hey guys - so it has been half a year since I wrote this guide, and my good friend and teammate Moosegills told me about a variant of this build he saw in the NASL. The game was Bischu vs ViBe, for anyone who has a season pass if you want to watch the VoD.
The way Bischu did this build was off of a Gateway expand - I don't have a season pass so I can't make a super detailed build order for it but here's the basics:
Start off with gateway opening - standard 13 gate, 14 gas, 17 core. Only put 2 guys on gas, and stop mining gas at 100 (for a single stalker and for warp gate).
Build a Nexus after the stalker is started as soon as you can afford it, cut probes at 24 (12 at each base, I believe - although you can experiment with having 16 at one base and 8 at the other and see if that income feels stronger), then add 5 gates and set up proxy pylons and warp in lots of zealots.
It's like a smaller version of this, that hits faster and is done off of a gateway expand. If anyone tries out this build, let us know in here how it goes for you! Happy zealot-ing~
On October 08 2012 07:25 RemarK wrote: Hey guys - so it has been half a year since I wrote this guide, and my good friend and teammate Moosegills told me about a variant of this build he saw in the NASL. The game was Bischu vs ViBe, for anyone who has a season pass if you want to watch the VoD.
The way Bischu did this build was off of a Gateway expand - I don't have a season pass so I can't make a super detailed build order for it but here's the basics:
Start off with gateway opening - standard 13 gate, 14 gas, 17 core. Only put 2 guys on gas, and stop mining gas at 100 (for a single stalker and for warp gate).
Build a Nexus after the stalker is started as soon as you can afford it, cut probes at 24 (12 at each base, I believe - although you can experiment with having 16 at one base and 8 at the other and see if that income feels stronger), then add 5 gates and set up proxy pylons and warp in lots of zealots.
It's like a smaller version of this, that hits faster and is done off of a gateway expand. If anyone tries out this build, let us know in here how it goes for you! Happy zealot-ing~
this build is genius, in case anyone is wondering.
Bischu fucked up his engagements though (or Vibe had really good engagements) and was able to mass produce roach ling at the cost of droning to surround Bischu's zealots.
The success of the all-in is therefore more heavily focused on how greedy the Zerg is being. Which should be a lot, since they're Zerg and can take 3 bases before a pool and get away with it.
CCalms did the gateway expand variant of it today in a tournament match vs team prOperty - here is the VoD, it's the last game in the series on Entombed Valley:
EPT
Happy zealot-ing~
