So after watching IPL, the casters had a lot to say about Parting and his double expo off a 1gate expo. I tried messing around with this in some custom games, and liked the general idea. However, I have a few questions.
When do you get all your gases afterwards? What do you tech to after? Does this only work vs 1 rax FE? Is it safe vs the 10:30 attack Terrans usually do with their first two medivacs off 1 rax FE? When to add gates?
Any help would be appreciated, with a general skeleton of when to do these things, thanks!
I think parting only stays on 2 gases while on 3 bases, and goes for double forge and templars after his big attack, and gets his gases afterwards.
I am fairly sure it only works vs 1rax FE, you might be able to make it work vs 1rax reaper expand, but I'm not certain. Definitely doesn't work vs 2rax or any tech opener.
It also doesn't seem to be safe vs any kind of 2 base tech (ie cloak / siege tanks ect) build from Terrans, and I've been told that it loses to marine pressure off 2 base, although I haven't faced that while doing the build myself.
I have been using Parting's Double Expand a lot ever since i saw it in the GSL a few months ago. However i don't think it should be accredited to Parting perse, the concept has been fooled around with by TT1 for a long time.
Anyway i have the build order pretty tightly down, it takes a considerable amount of macro and i wouldn't recommend it to any player short of master league but here we go.
This can only be done in response to a gasless FE from the terran.
Build Order is a basic 1 gate FE off 24 supply.
9 pylon 13 Gate 15 gas 16 Pylon 18 Core You can choose to skip the zealot if you are 100% sure he won't be able to bumb rush you 22 Stalker 24/26 > EXPAND 24 pylon on low ground 24/26 sentry. Probe till 30. 30 EXPAND AGAIN. Add 2 more gates near your 1st gate and add your second gas so it looks like a standard 3 gate.
This where the build branches off into heavily macro oriented play. Chrono boost only probes and make ONLY sentries off your 2 gas. You should be adding gates in groups of 2-3, and spread them out over your base so your opponent doesn't see them.
You want to get to a total of 8 gates or 7 gates and a robo/twilight + double forge.
By the 8:30 mark you should have around 7-8 sentries and 1 stalker and your last gates about to be thrown down or already building. This is when you add your 3rd and 4th gases
*Execution*
You need to keep your sentries close to the ramp so you can split up any early marine aggression. You should know this aggression is coming by being active on the map with your stalker and preventing an early scout of your third. This is indeed a slightly gimmicky build for if the terran knows that you have double expanded he could start dropping you or even come and kill you earlier by adding extra rax. However by the 8 min mark you are practically safe with a solid sentry count and can repel any marine aggression with good and conservative FF's. If you see some 8-9 min aggression with marauders and no Medivacs, just warp in some zealots and clean it up, theres nothing he can do.
Parting likes to keep his zealot count to a minimum till he's at the base attacking into bunkers. This is because stalkers can clean up marines that are split up with FF's. You want to maintain your sentry count so be very careful with them and pull them back every time you FF, the terran WILL target your sentries to pick them off.
After you have fended off his early aggression you need to put a forward pylon and be working on 1-1 with some kind of twilight tech either charge or blink. Begin warping in huge amounts of stalkers and 1 wave of zealots. Go and push his front. As you're doing this grab your 5-6th gas and get a robo.
Philosophy of the build
Basically the build achieves what zerg achieves some what vs protoss. You get a quick third base and macro really hard and play defensively till the 10 min mark. You should be able to get to a probe count of 60+ by then and an easy 1900 income. Once your 8 gates are active, you are supposed to be able to split up the terran army with ease and over run him with units. At that time the terran production is around 5-6 rax at most, you should be able to crush him if you don't lose your sentries or macro incorrectly. The timings to keep in mind are 7-8 early aggression that you must fend off only with sentries, and a 10 min push with medivacs where it is possible you could get dropped. Ideally you would like to meet your opponent on the field where you can slice him up and overwhelm with your production superiority. Twilight tech is favored because of your sheer gateway count, but i have seen MC do a 7 gate robo variation where he goes into late colossi instead with a few immortals.
Disclaimer
This build is extremely macro oriented and the management required is quite high. It's very easy to stop spending your money just because you achieve such a high economy so fast, and this can eventually kill you. Also, be wary, as soon as the terran figures out what you have done, you are susceptible to heavy heavy drop play. Keep your stalkers in your main if you think this is going happen and keep your zealots/sentries/colo/immortal/templar at your third.
That's all ii have to say, only do it if you think your macro can handle it. GL, i can post some replays of me doing it on the mid master ladder.
Replays I'll add replays as it becomes available i guess...Most of them are very sloppy because the macro required, in my opinion is that of a high masters player or GM. I play on 3 different accounts all of them mid master level so don't get irked by the change in name.
1. Guy gets really worried im going to all in him lol and he ends up cutting scvs as a result. It's been a while since i've done it so my forges were a bit late and so was my twilight.
On April 10 2012 00:37 Razultull wrote: I have been using Parting's Double Expand a lot ever since i saw it in the GSL a few months ago. However i don't think it should be accredited to Parting perse, the concept has been fooled around with by TT1 for a long time.
Anyway i have the build order pretty tightly down, it takes a considerable amount of macro and i wouldn't recommend it to any player short of master league but here we go.
This can only be done in response to a gasless FE from the terran.
Build Order is a basic 1 gate FE off 24 supply.
9 pylon 13 Gate 15 gas 16 Pylon 18 Core You can choose to skip the zealot if you are 100% sure he won't be able to bumb rush you 22 Stalker 24/26 > EXPAND 24 pylon on low ground 24/26 sentry. Probe till 30. 30 EXPAND AGAIN. Add 2 more gates near your 1st gate and add your second gas so it looks like a standard 3 gate.
This where the build branches off into heavily macro oriented play. Chrono boost only probes and make ONLY sentries off your 2 gas. You should be adding gates in groups of 2-3, and spread them out over your base so your opponent doesn't see them.
You want to get to a total of 8 gates or 7 gates and a robo/twilight + double forge.
By the 8:30 mark you should have around 7-8 sentries and 1 stalker and your last gates about to be thrown down or already building. This is when you add your 3rd and 4th gases
*Execution*
You need to keep your sentries close to the ramp so you can split up any early marine aggression. You should know this aggression is coming by being active on the map with your stalker and preventing an early scout of your third. This is indeed a slightly gimmicky build for if the terran knows that you have double expanded he could start dropping you or even come and kill you earlier by adding extra rax. However by the 8 min mark you are practically safe with a solid sentry count and can repel any marine aggression with good and conservative FF's. If you see some 8-9 min aggression with marauders and no Medivacs, just warp in some zealots and clean it up, theres nothing he can do.
Parting likes to keep his zealot count to a minimum till he's at the base attacking into bunkers. This is because stalkers can clean up marines that are split up with FF's. You want to maintain your sentry count so be very careful with them and pull them back every time you FF, the terran WILL target your sentries to pick them off.
After you have fended off his early aggression you need to put a forward pylon and be working on 1-1 with some kind of twilight tech either charge or blink. Begin warping in huge amounts of stalkers and 1 wave of zealots. Go and push his front. As you're doing this grab your 5-6th gas and get a robo.
Philosophy of the build
Basically the build achieves what zerg achieves some what vs protoss. You get a quick third base and macro really hard and play defensively till the 10 min mark. You should be able to get to a probe count of 60+ by then and an easy 1900 income. Once your 8 gates are active, you are supposed to be able to split up the terran army with ease and over run him with units. At that time the terran production is around 5-6 rax at most, you should be able to crush him if you don't lose your sentries or macro incorrectly. The timings to keep in mind are 7-8 early aggression that you must fend off only with sentries, and a 10 min push with medivacs where it is possible you could get dropped. Ideally you would like to meet your opponent on the field where you can slice him up and overwhelm with your production superiority. Twilight tech is favored because of your sheer gateway count, but i have seen MC do a 7 gate robo variation where he goes into late colossi instead with a few immortals.
Disclaimer
This build is extremely macro oriented and the management required is quite high. It's very easy to stop spending your money just because you achieve such a high economy so fast, and this can eventually kill you. Also, be wary, as soon as the terran figures out what you have done, you are susceptible to heavy heavy drop play. Keep your stalkers in your main if you think this is going happen and keep your zealots/sentries/colo/immortal/templar at your third.
That's all ii have to say, only do it if you think your macro can handle it. GL, i can post some replays of me doing it on the mid master ladder.
Your awesome i was hoping someone would put up partings BO
I'll have to find some replays of me doing this, i can also play this on the ladder exclusively for a bit to provide replays. It's just really hard to pull off but i will try.
I just don't like any build that doesn't account for cloak against Terran... it' just scary... Terran is the only race that can skim on preparation for a cloak build... P and Z have build order losses whenever cloak is involved... also, the last few times I've seen the 8 gate... it's always been thwarted by early aggression or cloak...
cloak would be a hard counter yes but off a 1 rax it will be severely delayed. Usually when you see more than 1 bunker it's a tell something fishy is up.
Extremely gimmicky style imo, i think there are reactive builds terran can do most of the time if they just scout it on time. Cloak after FE, fast drops or pressure just as the third is about to complete are all quite hard to stop. I think it's more a high level metagame answer to fast 3rd in base by terran or double engi bay.
On April 10 2012 00:37 Razultull wrote: I have been using Parting's Double Expand a lot ever since i saw it in the GSL a few months ago. However i don't think it should be accredited to Parting perse, the concept has been fooled around with by TT1 for a long time.
Anyway i have the build order pretty tightly down, it takes a considerable amount of macro and i wouldn't recommend it to any player short of master league but here we go.
This can only be done in response to a gasless FE from the terran.
Build Order is a basic 1 gate FE off 24 supply.
9 pylon 13 Gate 15 gas 16 Pylon 18 Core You can choose to skip the zealot if you are 100% sure he won't be able to bumb rush you 22 Stalker 24/26 > EXPAND 24 pylon on low ground 24/26 sentry. Probe till 30. 30 EXPAND AGAIN. Add 2 more gates near your 1st gate and add your second gas so it looks like a standard 3 gate.
This where the build branches off into heavily macro oriented play. Chrono boost only probes and make ONLY sentries off your 2 gas. You should be adding gates in groups of 2-3, and spread them out over your base so your opponent doesn't see them.
You want to get to a total of 8 gates or 7 gates and a robo/twilight + double forge.
By the 8:30 mark you should have around 7-8 sentries and 1 stalker and your last gates about to be thrown down or already building. This is when you add your 3rd and 4th gases
*Execution*
You need to keep your sentries close to the ramp so you can split up any early marine aggression. You should know this aggression is coming by being active on the map with your stalker and preventing an early scout of your third. This is indeed a slightly gimmicky build for if the terran knows that you have double expanded he could start dropping you or even come and kill you earlier by adding extra rax. However by the 8 min mark you are practically safe with a solid sentry count and can repel any marine aggression with good and conservative FF's. If you see some 8-9 min aggression with marauders and no Medivacs, just warp in some zealots and clean it up, theres nothing he can do.
Parting likes to keep his zealot count to a minimum till he's at the base attacking into bunkers. This is because stalkers can clean up marines that are split up with FF's. You want to maintain your sentry count so be very careful with them and pull them back every time you FF, the terran WILL target your sentries to pick them off.
After you have fended off his early aggression you need to put a forward pylon and be working on 1-1 with some kind of twilight tech either charge or blink. Begin warping in huge amounts of stalkers and 1 wave of zealots. Go and push his front. As you're doing this grab your 5-6th gas and get a robo.
Philosophy of the build
Basically the build achieves what zerg achieves some what vs protoss. You get a quick third base and macro really hard and play defensively till the 10 min mark. You should be able to get to a probe count of 60+ by then and an easy 1900 income. Once your 8 gates are active, you are supposed to be able to split up the terran army with ease and over run him with units. At that time the terran production is around 5-6 rax at most, you should be able to crush him if you don't lose your sentries or macro incorrectly. The timings to keep in mind are 7-8 early aggression that you must fend off only with sentries, and a 10 min push with medivacs where it is possible you could get dropped. Ideally you would like to meet your opponent on the field where you can slice him up and overwhelm with your production superiority. Twilight tech is favored because of your sheer gateway count, but i have seen MC do a 7 gate robo variation where he goes into late colossi instead with a few immortals.
Disclaimer
This build is extremely macro oriented and the management required is quite high. It's very easy to stop spending your money just because you achieve such a high economy so fast, and this can eventually kill you. Also, be wary, as soon as the terran figures out what you have done, you are susceptible to heavy heavy drop play. Keep your stalkers in your main if you think this is going happen and keep your zealots/sentries/colo/immortal/templar at your third.
That's all ii have to say, only do it if you think your macro can handle it. GL, i can post some replays of me doing it on the mid master ladder.
Replays I'll add replays as it becomes available i guess...Most of them are very sloppy because the macro required, in my opinion is that of a high masters player or GM. I play on 3 different accounts all of them mid master level so don't get irked by the change in name.
1. Guy gets really worried im going to all in him lol and he ends up cutting scvs as a result. It's been a while since i've done it so my forges were a bit late and so was my twilight.
you can add me on NA if you want LGRazultull.885, or Kierkegaard.693 if you have any questions you want answered.
Just to add to this post:
-Parting usually gets his double forges during or after his gateway push along with his twilight. He also usually gets blink first but unless you are like high master or GM I would recommend charge since with blink you are relying on perfect FFs to stop kiting. With charge all you have to do really is split your army correctly and you should be able to defend multiple attack points much easier with less multi-tasking/micro.
-I think you fail to mention that the gateway push is absolutely critical to the build. It hits right before or around when their first set of medivacs complete, and actually a big drop deterrent since if they won't have the forces to stop you at his front if he tries to send his first medivacs out to your base to drop you. It also essentially buys you the time to get your tech and upgrades going before he's knocking at your door and you're in defense mode.
-Sentry control is absolutely critical to defending 4-5 rax marine pushes. Again if you're not high master or GM I would recommend making more stalkers and less sentries and camping outside his front and then just kiting his marine army across the map. Not only will you get to pick off marines for free with proper micro but this also buys you time for more warp-ins. Early stalkers also allows you to posture outside their base and annoy them by picking off anything that tries to leave his base or any buildings outside range of his bunker(s). Overall more stalkers early is safer than more sentries and protects you from things like mass hellions, but weakens your gateway push at his front since you have less FFs.
-You need to be able to count marines and figure out how many rax they have from that, otherwise you are just gambling they aren't going cloaked banshees. I would not necessarily say this auto-losses to cloaked banshees because if your gateway push at their front does enough damage it may even it out, but regardless you want to account for cloaked banshees. I will say if they go both siege tanks to defend their front with cloaked banshees you are most definitely going to lose if you don't scout this.
-There are many, many variations of fast 3rd builds that are very viable. I like to tech straight to templar after my 3rd and skip the initial gateway pressure and play a more defensive-style, using HT to defend drops. This is also why I get less sentries and more stalkers since I don't need that many sentries if I'm not going to do a gateway pressure at his front.
-I do not recommend going robo tech first after your 3rd, at least when you are initially learning the build. Going robo will make you highly suceptible to drops, which is going to be the main way you are going to lose with this build if you macro'ed well enough. Not saying it's impossible but it will be more difficult playing robo first so it's best to avoid while you are learning the build.
-I think you fail to mention that the gateway push is absolutely critical to the build. It hits right before or around when their first set of medivacs complete, and actually a big drop deterrent since if they won't have the forces to stop you at his front if he tries to send his first medivacs out to your base to drop you. It also essentially buys you the time to get your tech and upgrades going before he's knocking at your door and you're in defense mode.
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I dont think the gateway push is that critical. When parting first showed it in the GSL the only reason he pushed was because jjakji gave him his army and parting was able to slice him completely. Now, this is what will usually happen with the sentry count that you have however i don't think everything banks on some kind of timing. The concept of the build is essentially to secure a fast third to keep up with the terran economy, because let's face it otherwise a protoss cannot physically do that. What you do from there on out is up to you, and parting just happened to use 8 gates as one possible transition because that nicely allows you to spend your money and defend against tech more advanced than yours.
Other than that, yes counting marines or bunkers can be a good tell as to what he is doing.
-I think you fail to mention that the gateway push is absolutely critical to the build. It hits right before or around when their first set of medivacs complete, and actually a big drop deterrent since if they won't have the forces to stop you at his front if he tries to send his first medivacs out to your base to drop you. It also essentially buys you the time to get your tech and upgrades going before he's knocking at your door and you're in defense mode.
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I dont think the gateway push is that critical. When parting first showed it in the GSL the only reason he pushed was because jjakji gave him his army and parting was able to slice him completely. Now, this is what will usually happen with the sentry count that you have however i don't think everything banks on some kind of timing. The concept of the build is essentially to secure a fast third to keep up with the terran economy, because let's face it otherwise a protoss cannot physically do that. What you do from there on out is up to you, and parting just happened to use 8 gates as one possible transition.
Parting does the gateway push regardless if he kills anything prior to the push. The reason is because you are pretty much guaranteed to do cost effective damage due to your high sentry count (unless they have siege tanks) and can also afford to trade units at this time since you have such a massive economy at this point. By trading armies at this stage while terrans army is weak (pre-medivacs) you essentially delay him pushing out so that you can get your tech and upgrades up.
And this build surpasses the terran economy if you macro-correctly, even if terran makes a fast in-base 3rd CC since you should be able to prevent them from landing it at their 3rd before he has medivacs. And the point of this build is definitely not to "keep up" with the terran economy because 2-base protoss can deal just fine with a 2-base terran.
edit: To clarify, as I mentioned in my prior post, you don't necessarily have to do the gateway push when you grab a fast 3rd, but then you are doing a different build from Parting. If you are not doing the gateway push you want to get more stalkers (for safety) and less sentries (you don't need 7-8 sentries if you aren't going to push their front), and get your tech way faster because you will need it to defend their push since you did not delay it at all from the gateway pressure. So it's up to you and how you like to play.
Well, i think the better path would be to wait for the terran to come to you at 10 mins but thats just me. The kind of army you would have at that time seems to trade way more cost efficiently when you can FF them completely. But yes you are right you indeed overtake the terran ant around the 10 min mark.
since there doesn't seem to be any other threads about this build, i'm looking for some recent (pro-level) vods/replays of this style vs the common 1 rax FE into 3 rax double reactor/stim/medivac aggression while the terran gets his 3rd up.
i haven't seen parting use the aggressive style of this build in a while and I usually do better with this build if I just play defensively and get a faster twilight/ archives to deal with drops. If you do the aggressive style of this build you move out around 8:40 i think with a bunch of sentries and a few stalkers, which can easily be surrounded in the open and just feels really risky. Most terrans I've played in highish masters are out on the map at this time with their medivacs rallied to them making it awkward to go across the map and attack.
I agree with ony but I think you really have to play it by ear and see when the terran moves out etc and get into a good position. On a map like daybreak you can take advantage of the ramps with the rocks at his base(that is the first time we saw parting do that)
Also ony day 9 did a daily on partings pvt style where he analyzes 3 replays of his where he does this style. I would link it to you but I'm sitting in an airplane on my mobile phone about to fly 12000 kilometers lol
On September 17 2012 18:24 igay wrote: can someone please link or give me a build order for 1 base colluses PvP? i can't seem to find anything relevant.
EPT
