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Update - + Show Spoiler +I'm now fairly certain that DRG was the first to use this build. If anyone has links to any games of DRG or other pros using this style, please post in comments!
Hello everyone,
I'm starting to work on a strategy guide on ZvT and I could use your help! I'm going to analyze the 8:40 roach/ling/baneling timing attack. So far, I've seen Stephano, DRG, Nestea, and violet use this style. While I will be giving analysis on each of the pros' unique execution and transitions, I'm wondering who you all think was the first player to "invent" this build.
Poll:
+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Who first used this Roach/Ling/Baneling timing attack?DRG (35) 70% Violet (10) 20% Nestea (4) 8% Stephano (1) 2% 50 total votes Your vote: Who first used this Roach/Ling/Baneling timing attack? (Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Violet
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): DRG
Example Games:
+ Show Spoiler +
Also, please comment with any links to stream VODS/replays/casted games where a professional zerg player has used this or a similar timing attack. I want to analyze as many different transitions as possible, so please contribute if you can!
Much appreciated,
-Tang
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Well i heard many times this build called "Violet push", so maybe it is from him.
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Don't really think it matters who 'invented' it, but the first Pro i saw using it was DRG
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I first saw it out of Ret who was talking about it quite a few months ago.
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On April 03 2012 10:08 Host- wrote:
Don't really think it matters who 'invented' it, but the first Pro i saw using it was DRG
I agree, but I don't want to make the mistake of labeling the guide "DRG's Roach/Ling/Baneling All-In (Or is it)," only to find out it's actually violet's build.
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I thought Leenock was one of the first players I saw go for the roach/bling attack on Terran. I don't know the exact time it hit though. If you're really curious to find out when the build was first aired, go check out the ZvT vods from the GSL season after the Terran dominance. GSL October or November maybe? I believe that's when we started seeing Zergs go for that push.
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I believe it was DongRaeGu. DongRaeGu was one of the first to use Roach/Baneling as an actual composition as well, so I think it makes sense.
The first game I saw of him doing the bust was vs MMA at MLG Providence, but I'm almost certain he was using it before that.
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Pretty confident it was Losira in fact, used it long ago in March after he won Code A.
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On April 03 2012 10:19 Hulavuta wrote:
I believe it was DongRaeGu. DongRaeGu was one of the first to use Roach/Baneling as an actual composition as well, so I think it makes sense.
The first game I saw of him doing the bust was vs MMA at MLG Providence, but I'm almost certain he was using it before that.
I was looking for that game but forgot who the opponent was. Thanks!
Appreciate the help so far guys! Could still use links to any other games (in particular violet's stream VODs)
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I saw Losira do it a long time ago when he was using Roach/Baneling composition against Terran a lot, maybe last June or so. Might be wrong about if Losira specifically did this attack, but I know DRG has used it more than anyone else in televised play.
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On April 03 2012 10:17 vileIllusion wrote:
DRG
poll is over =P
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I saw morrow do this vs Drewbie on Crevasse ages ago. Cant remember what tournament
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Slush was doing it in MLG last year. Day9 did a daily on it
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Tang's guide containing an allin?????
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On April 03 2012 13:02 ChoboDane wrote:
I saw morrow do this vs Drewbie on Crevasse ages ago. Cant remember what tournament
yeah I think I vaguely remember morrow and moonglade doing repeated roach baneling all-ins in early NASL.
Was it this exact bust? I don't know.
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On April 03 2012 10:19 Hulavuta wrote:
I believe it was DongRaeGu. DongRaeGu was one of the first to use Roach/Baneling as an actual composition as well, so I think it makes sense.
The first game I saw of him doing the bust was vs MMA at MLG Providence, but I'm almost certain he was using it before that.
Roach bane goes waaaaaaaaaay back to the very beginning, Fruitdealer used to do all sorts of roach baneling in his run. Of this specific timing, I've always been under the impression that Leenock had become known for doing something like this probably 6-8 months ago.
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I used to do this on scrap station in beta knocking down rocks and going through the middle, morphing banes as the roaches knocked down the 2nd set of rocks. As far as pro games go I'm pretty sure it was around before DRG came on the scene.
The build has definately made a resurgence with DRG using it thou
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Hmmm, well Fruitdealer did use this kind of composition a lot but not as a particular timming IIRC.
1st person I remember using it was Lucky at IPL3 to take out all SlayerS players. I remember that because I thought it was pretty smart because at that time every T was using Hellion double expands and stuff like that
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On April 03 2012 10:10 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 10:08 Host- wrote:
Don't really think it matters who 'invented' it, but the first Pro i saw using it was DRG I agree, but I don't want to make the mistake of labeling the guide "DRG's Roach/Ling/Baneling All-In (Or is it)," only to find out it's actually violet's build.
I just love how you always just have to add that to an allin tutorials name..
I don't want to say anyone tho, just choose the name from replay that you have the oldest timing of that meets this criteria.
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The first to use it is some computer algorithm or random dia player that was fucking around with builds in single player.
From a fan standpoint though, the player the popularizes the build the most, or used it to exploit the current metagame the most is still interesting to me
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The person i remember bringing this build into the lime light was JulyZerg
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On April 03 2012 13:08 Oboeman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 13:02 ChoboDane wrote:
I saw morrow do this vs Drewbie on Crevasse ages ago. Cant remember what tournament yeah I think I vaguely remember morrow and moonglade doing repeated roach baneling all-ins in early NASL. Was it this exact bust? I don't know.
Yea i remember this as well. There's no way to really tell who "invented" the build, and it's likely that it wasn't anyone in the poll. As for people who popularised it, DRG and Leenock were the ones that i began to see use it very frequently.
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Who first used the 8:40 roach ling bling?
I think Simple answer thread is the right place for this...
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United States8476 Posts
DRG used it in the first professional game. I believe it was during GSL shortly after IPL when Roach ling allins became popular.
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Violet has been using this forever in the Playhem dailies.
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i believe DRG popularized it, in the gsl. we can see that he has attempted to do the same kind of attack in previous games but only recently it has become more common? i personally learned it from DRG
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Tang i really like your guides and would like to help you for this new one 
first of all, I think the 8:40 timing push leaves you vulnurable to helion builds with banshees. If terran comes to your base with first 2-4 helions (standart play), it is already difficult to avoid him getting suspicious, since you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with two queens. Afterwards enemy will get banshees and you cant do a lot of damage with your allin. I had some problems vs mid - high masters with this build.
Therefore i prefere the roach/bling/ling timing that come later and is much more massive. I have seen DRG and Leenock use them. I guess they get roach warrant at 44 build, safe larva and pump out roaches while getting bling nest and speed. Playing the 44 roach/blin/ling agression allows you to get 3 queens and a third hatchery. You also fake zerg standard play and terran will have expoed at this point for sure thinking that he is safe.
Looking forward to your new guides.
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On April 03 2012 18:22 HadeCiao wrote:Tang i really like your guides and would like to help you for this new one first of all, I think the 8:40 timing push leaves you vulnurable to helion builds with banshees. If terran comes to your base with first 2-4 helions (standart play), it is already difficult to avoid him getting suspicious, since you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with two queens. Afterwards enemy will get banshees and you cant do a lot of damage with your allin. I had some problems vs mid - high masters with this build. Therefore i prefere the roach/bling/ling timing that come later and is much more massive. I have seen DRG and Leenock use them. I guess they get roach warrant at 44 build, safe larva and pump out roaches while getting bling nest and speed. Playing the 44 roach/blin/ling agression allows you to get 3 queens and a third hatchery. You also fake zerg standard play and terran will have expoed at this point for sure thinking that he is safe. Looking forward to your new guides.
If they go hellion into banshee you can kill every worker they have. As long as you don't lose all your workers, you win. DRG vs MMA shows an example if this where MMA was basically dead, but DRG forgot to build spores to deal with the banshees he already saw. The defense they have at the front is typically only a bunker with a marauder and two marines...
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I swear Fruitdealer was using this back in the open seasons.
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On April 03 2012 18:52 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:22 HadeCiao wrote:Tang i really like your guides and would like to help you for this new one first of all, I think the 8:40 timing push leaves you vulnurable to helion builds with banshees. If terran comes to your base with first 2-4 helions (standart play), it is already difficult to avoid him getting suspicious, since you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with two queens. Afterwards enemy will get banshees and you cant do a lot of damage with your allin. I had some problems vs mid - high masters with this build. Therefore i prefere the roach/bling/ling timing that come later and is much more massive. I have seen DRG and Leenock use them. I guess they get roach warrant at 44 build, safe larva and pump out roaches while getting bling nest and speed. Playing the 44 roach/blin/ling agression allows you to get 3 queens and a third hatchery. You also fake zerg standard play and terran will have expoed at this point for sure thinking that he is safe. Looking forward to your new guides. If they go hellion into banshee you can kill every worker they have. As long as you don't lose all your workers, you win. DRG vs MMA shows an example if this where MMA was basically dead, but DRG forgot to build spores to deal with the banshees he already saw. The defense they have at the front is typically only a bunker with a marauder and two marines...
hmm please specify on this. They have 2 helions at your base when your warrant is building and 4 when your roaches are morphing. If you did not get a spine (which delays everything accordingly), you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with queens. Terran will be suspicions then because he usally expected more than an empty base with queens blocking the ramp. Hence he can get a banshee oh so quickly and camp on his choke with bunkers..
please correct me if i am wrong, but this is the way the BO turned out against high master
therefore I prefere the 44 roach/bling/ling all in which DRG etc. uses and I am looking forward to a guide of this. If I am not mistaken, the gomtv tournement where all the 2nd players were participating had a lot of these build in it
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On April 03 2012 20:40 HadeCiao wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 18:52 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 03 2012 18:22 HadeCiao wrote:Tang i really like your guides and would like to help you for this new one first of all, I think the 8:40 timing push leaves you vulnurable to helion builds with banshees. If terran comes to your base with first 2-4 helions (standart play), it is already difficult to avoid him getting suspicious, since you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with two queens. Afterwards enemy will get banshees and you cant do a lot of damage with your allin. I had some problems vs mid - high masters with this build. Therefore i prefere the roach/bling/ling timing that come later and is much more massive. I have seen DRG and Leenock use them. I guess they get roach warrant at 44 build, safe larva and pump out roaches while getting bling nest and speed. Playing the 44 roach/blin/ling agression allows you to get 3 queens and a third hatchery. You also fake zerg standard play and terran will have expoed at this point for sure thinking that he is safe. Looking forward to your new guides. If they go hellion into banshee you can kill every worker they have. As long as you don't lose all your workers, you win. DRG vs MMA shows an example if this where MMA was basically dead, but DRG forgot to build spores to deal with the banshees he already saw. The defense they have at the front is typically only a bunker with a marauder and two marines... hmm please specify on this. They have 2 helions at your base when your warrant is building and 4 when your roaches are morphing. If you did not get a spine (which delays everything accordingly), you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with queens. Terran will be suspicions then because he usally expected more than an empty base with queens blocking the ramp. Hence he can get a banshee oh so quickly and camp on his choke with bunkers.. please correct me if i am wrong, but this is the way the BO turned out against high master therefore I prefere the 44 roach/bling/ling all in which DRG etc. uses and I am looking forward to a guide of this. If I am not mistaken, the gomtv tournement where all the 2nd players were participating had a lot of these build in it
When I do this build, typically I get 1 spine and 3 queens against reactor hellion openers, because otherwise it telegraphs the play too much. I noticed that this doesn't delay the push. DRG used a gasless opener ala Ice Fisher against MKP a few times and in one game he went for 3 gasses late and did a roach baneling all-in at ~9 minutes, even though he had a spine and 4 queen defense at the front. It was the game on Shak.
I recommend doing it this way, rather than risking your drone line to hellions.
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On April 04 2012 02:01 oOOoOphidian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 20:40 HadeCiao wrote:On April 03 2012 18:52 oOOoOphidian wrote:On April 03 2012 18:22 HadeCiao wrote:Tang i really like your guides and would like to help you for this new one first of all, I think the 8:40 timing push leaves you vulnurable to helion builds with banshees. If terran comes to your base with first 2-4 helions (standart play), it is already difficult to avoid him getting suspicious, since you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with two queens. Afterwards enemy will get banshees and you cant do a lot of damage with your allin. I had some problems vs mid - high masters with this build. Therefore i prefere the roach/bling/ling timing that come later and is much more massive. I have seen DRG and Leenock use them. I guess they get roach warrant at 44 build, safe larva and pump out roaches while getting bling nest and speed. Playing the 44 roach/blin/ling agression allows you to get 3 queens and a third hatchery. You also fake zerg standard play and terran will have expoed at this point for sure thinking that he is safe. Looking forward to your new guides. If they go hellion into banshee you can kill every worker they have. As long as you don't lose all your workers, you win. DRG vs MMA shows an example if this where MMA was basically dead, but DRG forgot to build spores to deal with the banshees he already saw. The defense they have at the front is typically only a bunker with a marauder and two marines... hmm please specify on this. They have 2 helions at your base when your warrant is building and 4 when your roaches are morphing. If you did not get a spine (which delays everything accordingly), you have to move your drones from natural to main and block with queens. Terran will be suspicions then because he usally expected more than an empty base with queens blocking the ramp. Hence he can get a banshee oh so quickly and camp on his choke with bunkers.. please correct me if i am wrong, but this is the way the BO turned out against high master therefore I prefere the 44 roach/bling/ling all in which DRG etc. uses and I am looking forward to a guide of this. If I am not mistaken, the gomtv tournement where all the 2nd players were participating had a lot of these build in it When I do this build, typically I get 1 spine and 3 queens against reactor hellion openers, because otherwise it telegraphs the play too much. I noticed that this doesn't delay the push. DRG used a gasless opener ala Ice Fisher against MKP a few times and in one game he went for 3 gasses late and did a roach baneling all-in at ~9 minutes, even though he had a spine and 4 queen defense at the front. It was the game on Shak. I recommend doing it this way, rather than risking your drone line to hellions.
Yeah, I prefer getting a spine when I do this too. The 3rd queen is optional, if you're committing to the 2base timing you probably wouldn't get the 3rd queen.
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EPT
