[L] Learning 2 base plays as Protoss

On March 30 2012 22:59 Sated wrote:

This is wrong on so many levels. This player isn't trying to do 2base all-ins to take easy wins, they're doing 2base all-ins because they know they can't macro on 2bases and want to have benchmarks (all-ins) to aim for in order to help them improve.

Seriously, it's silly to tell a low-level player to attempt 30minute+ macro games every time they play. They're going to make so many mistakes over a 30minute+ period that it's going to be hard for them to identify the mistakes that are important. In short, they're not going to improve efficiently if they don't have any targets to aim for.

Consider the case of a completely new player trying to improve their PvT:

• The first thing you'd want to do is get them to macro properly on 1base by making them 4gate. The 4gate is a build that has a very, very clear target to aim for, making it easy for the player to track their mistakes.
  
• Once they can do a 4gate consistently they're ready to try 2base play, so you move them up to something like 3gate -> Expand -> 6gate. You choose a build like this because it has a clear 1base target to aim for, just like the 4gate does, whilst also possessing a clear 2base target. This gives them two stages of mistakes they can focus on, helping both their early-game play (which is still evolving) and their mid-game play. It also helps them to analyse whether or not they should commit to an engagement, teaching them a skill outside of pure macro.
  
• After they've got their macro up to a level where they can handle that type of build, you move them onto something more economic like 1gate -> Expand -> 6gate. Again, this build has very clearly 1base targets (the timing of the Nexus and the additional Gateways), whilst also having a solid 2base target to aim for.
  
• After that they're ready for Immortal/Colossus all-ins because these introduce new macro skills by forcing them to use more hotkeys and builds than they did before. Finally, after they've mastered all these two-base builds, they're finally ready to ditch a couple of production builds and take a third instead of attacking.

Now, you say that they're going to get a lot of easy wins doing this kind of thing. That may be true, but I say they're also going to get a lot of dumb losses. If you're committed to 6gating every game then you're going to automatically lose to Cloaked Banshees - but doing these builds is about improving, so if you lose to something like that then you have to shrug and move on to the next game.

Think about it: If you can't macro well enough to execute a 2base all-in, how are you going to be able to handle 3bases? Or 4bases or 5bases? Answer: You're not. Gotta crawl before you can walk, gotta walk before you can run...

@OP:

For PvT, I think that the 2base Immortal All-In would be perfect for you. It has some very solid timings to aim for and has been shown to work at the very highest level of play: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309028

Alternatively, a build I use a lot is a 2gate FE -> 6gate All-In. I wrote a guide on the 2gate FE that you can search for if you're interested, but it isn't exactly standard so I wouldn't recommend you learning it outright. The 6gate all-in is great, though, so here are some replays of me doing it (I have done it on better maps, these are just examples):
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Sated_vs_(T)gilgamesh/18638
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Sated_vs_(T)Ielmoere/18674

As for PvZ, the best idea would be to go for 4gate +1 Zealot Pressure and follow up with a 7gate +2 Blink All-in. This gives you two very clear targets to aim for. The guide for 4gate +1 Zealot Pressure doesn't really go into the 7gate transition, but the idea is that you throw down a Twilight Council so that it finishes when +1 does, and then throw down the three extra Gateways so that they finish when +2 and Blink do: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309780