EPT[G] Lyyna’s TvP : How to mech every protoss cry - Page 15
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On March 31 2012 05:57 Mongolbonjwa wrote: What are you talking about pylons? ...scouting to see if he has 2 pylons or three, to dictate, along with gas timing, if he's proxying something somewhere? | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
Also, all builds get early double gas, allowing you to get cloak + banshee + armory in a short period of time. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
But how do you deal with the threat of counter attacks? Is your solution just to never attack (but what if he never attacks as well?) or do you try to position your self in a way (when you move forward) so your safe against counters? | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
My personal solution is to never attack and to abuse the power of sensor tower to always be able to position perfectly. If he never attacks,np, the longer the wait, the better is your army, and the more orbital you have, while you can harass with nukes/banshees/raven to make him go mad and attack :D | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
How do you deal with late game mass gateway warpings after the big battle of maxed armies where you will loose many tanks and thors etc? | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On March 31 2012 23:40 Mongolbonjwa wrote: 18 double gas is too late. You should get it at 13-14 supply. How do you deal with late game mass gateway warpings after the big battle of maxed armies where you will loose many tanks and thors etc? Late game mech armies trade so efficiently with protoss armies that you will have plenty of units left over after the big warpin. Especially since in my case, much of my army is BC/Raven/Banshee at that point in the game so chargeot warping are kind of useless. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
-Destroy every single wall/Hellions/PF/autoturrets on the way -Destroy thors with 10 scv repairing, with most chargelots dead and raven spamming point defense drone -Get in your tank lines , while getting destroyed by these tanks, and your air army. In fact this is the worst idea for the protoss because it ends up like a reversed (and worse) TvP, because his mass T1 reprod might not even kill 20 supply of my army once i get my ultimate doomBall Most replays labelled as "vs Gateway army" or stuff like that basically show how cost effectiveness own mass reprod (which basically one of the main idea of this strategy). Another recent game of that kind is the one vs Freman | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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Treehead
999 Posts
On April 01 2012 00:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Why pros dont use mech versus protos if it really is as superior as you think? Perhaps because they have experience with bio, bio still works for them, and therefore they have no reason to switch strategies. If I had experience with 2-base allins against zerg, and $10,000 was on the line, why would I use a strategy I had less experience with just because it may or may not be theoretically superior (which hasn't really been shown either way) in the long term? | ||
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
Well, I guess that's due to a lot of things. But Basically, 1) Pro usually don't try that kind of strange strats. I mean, ask a pro what he does think of turtling with mech vP and vZ for ages to collect easy wins, and he'll laugh at you. Pro usually prefer standard play, and . . 2) At some point,bio became standard. Strength of marauder, nerf of tanks , etc . . led to pure bio being the mainstream strat. And from here, even if some pros sometimes try mech . . 3) it'll fail because they try to play it like bio; so they loose in a retarded way and say bio is shit. That's why for example,a player like Goody was able to play mech (HIS OWN MECH. Don't go again in the "goody stopped mech vP, it shows how bad this is". Answered this enough time lol) and not others : because he was playing using a Mech "Mindset". In fact this also makes me think something : I was able to make this style "viable" at high master level, nearly no harass and/or agressive stuff, "creating" this style in Free-Style mode (i basically never theorycrafy, i prefer to try things live. Here comes a lot of ladder loss :D) and a "slow play". I start to wonder how this could be in the hands of a pro player able to manager multi pronged banshee / hellions harass, perfect multitask and ability to micro,etc. | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On April 01 2012 00:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Why pros dont use mech versus protos if it really is as superior as you think? Doesn't matter if it's superior or not. The fact is this works in High Master and below. If you don't think it's viable at your level, you're either a professional SC2 player and you're considering moving to Korea to compete in GSL, or you're dumb, because this has been proven to work at your level. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On April 01 2012 00:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Why pros dont use mech versus protos if it really is as superior as you think? Trying to play as pro players do is useless. Without pro level apm and micro bio is kind of crappy in late game TvP. Better to use something that is actually viable on your own level and works with more normal mechanics. | ||
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DawN883
Sweden558 Posts
On April 01 2012 00:36 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Why pros dont use mech versus protos if it really is as superior as you think? I'am pretty sure he didn't say that mech was superior to bio. It is just his own way of playing it out | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On March 24 2012 03:29 Breach_hu wrote: http://cupapp.com/hu/replay/view/424/1v1-Entombed_Valley-nfteamBreach-EEvEE some mech TvP action by me (EU GM Terran) i can upload some other games aswell, because im trying to play mech myself too. enjoy~ This is my concern with mech. Watch this game. Breach executes it pretty well. He loses a ton of hellions - but their job clearly is misdirection, keeping protoss off balance, and if he doesn't execute well (EEvEE does in this game) the hellions roast probes. Now, Go to about 23 minutes into the game. Breach is sieging up to defend his fourth. EEvEE has been coming out on top in engagements for a good portion of the game. He comes to a point where he finds Breach's entire army at his fourth - and he decides to push his army, but if he turns right instead of left, he'd find that Breach's main and nat (both of which were orbitals) have absolutely no defense, and he'd have walked in with primarily blink stalkers and immortals. On a basic level, I don't understand how unless you're playing a map like Shakuras, this situation doesn't pop up constantly when you go into long, long macro games. | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 24 2012 03:02 HeyJude wrote: I just watched one of your replay packs. game 1 - The toss gets a fairly early Twilight then instead of going blink/obs(which would have wrecked you, and is the logical counter to banshees) he techs DTs. You didn't win that game because mech/banshee is amazing. You won because your opponent was retarded. game 2 - The toss does a 2gate/robo expand. He could have harassed the crap out of you when were trying to move out and expand but he did nothing. Then he all-ins you with a stalker/immortal/collosi force, in a battle where your PDDs werent even placed right and were worthless. His army comp was horrendous and he knew exactly what was coming. 15 zealots would have gone a long way in this fight. game 3 - You kill a bunch of his probes with one cloaked banshee. For some unknown reason he decides to get one stalker then warp in 5 sentries. lol? Once again your toss opponent doesn't even poke with his stalker(s), which is incredibly stupid. I don't know what level opponents you're playing but I really don't think they're as high as you claim to be. I'm low masters and I'm a lot better than the 3 toss players I've seen you face already. game 4 - Your opponent has no detection when your cloaked banshee hits at 9 minutes. Srs? I don't know why any toss wouldn't open 2gate-robo, especially after seeing the expand by you. game 5 - I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but your opponent was terrible. You opened with 2 rax vs 15 nexus. He throws away his probes, doesn't make a single sentry, etc. Tbh I don't know if 15 nexus can even hold your proxy rax without taking heavy losses, but he made one zealot then 4 stalkers, stupid response. I'm not saying mech/banshee isn't a viable strat but I think you're playing toss players at a much lower level than you so it wouldn't have mattered what your army comp was. Any time I see a FE I go 2gate/robo blink and pressure his main to keep him honest. I didn't see that in any of your games, and in all the games your opponent had decent scouting so he knew you were FE. And your opponents seemed rather clueless about army comp. One game you had mostly thors and blue flame hellions. Your opponent masses zealots that game. There was another game the toss knew exactly what you had and countered with the worst comp possible. Iirc you had tanks/thors/marines and he went stalker/collosi/immortal but his army was 30 supply lower than yours anyway. Any time I see a Terran make a thor or tank I immediately shift my comp to include more zealots. Maybe protoss players are too willing to go mid-late game and just macro up but as I already mentioned, most terran FE's are very vulnerable to good blink/obs harass. *One last edit lol...I think one reason your build works well for you is the banshees give you great scouting and as long as you don't encounter early blink you'll never lose a banshee so they're extremely cost-efficient. I am afraid I couldn't agree more with this. Your opponents were god-awful | ||
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
Another reason why pro players don't go mech vs protoss : it makes game longer. When you look at most of pros, they need to play a lot of ladder games, they don't have time to play 50 min games each time. | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On April 01 2012 01:40 Huggerz wrote: I am afraid I couldn't agree more with this. Your opponents were god-awful The amount of flawed logic in this post is staggering. Nobody takes this guy seriously. And honestly, if you think Zealots are the way to 'counter' mech you are sorely mistaken. Turns out BFH are pretty good. | ||
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