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On March 12 2012 11:10 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:02 TangSC wrote:
I've noticed some of the most common mistakes for zerg players are sitting with 3+ larva, missing injects, and forgetting to spread creep. This is why I like your idea of using a macro-cycle to reduce the amount of time you spend looking at your base, allowing for more time spent controlling units. It's definitely helpful to get in the habit of macroing in a sequence such as...
1) use your larva
2) inject
3) spread creep
However, I think one of the important aspects of micro that you may have overlooked is that it's often correct to simply attack-move while managing production. Over-microing is as common a mistake in SC2 as under-microing! Ahh great point I will make sure to add that to the first revision. I see many progamers do this as well. To be clear, I believe many people over do what you are describing as a method to cover bad awareness but sometimes its amazing to to A-Move a force into a vulnerable spot and then simply go and do a macro cycle.
Yeah, I mean it is very situational. We're all going to make that dreaded mistake of misreading an engagement, attack moving, and losing our whole army just to do an inject and build some drones. But the more you practice multitasking, the more you realize the types of engagements where it's ok to look away momentarily.
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On March 12 2012 11:16 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:10 vaderseven wrote:On March 12 2012 11:02 TangSC wrote:
I've noticed some of the most common mistakes for zerg players are sitting with 3+ larva, missing injects, and forgetting to spread creep. This is why I like your idea of using a macro-cycle to reduce the amount of time you spend looking at your base, allowing for more time spent controlling units. It's definitely helpful to get in the habit of macroing in a sequence such as...
1) use your larva
2) inject
3) spread creep
However, I think one of the important aspects of micro that you may have overlooked is that it's often correct to simply attack-move while managing production. Over-microing is as common a mistake in SC2 as under-microing! Ahh great point I will make sure to add that to the first revision. I see many progamers do this as well. To be clear, I believe many people over do what you are describing as a method to cover bad awareness but sometimes its amazing to to A-Move a force into a vulnerable spot and then simply go and do a macro cycle. Yeah, I mean it is very situational. We're all going to make that dreaded mistake of misreading an engagement, attack moving, and losing our whole army just to do an inject and build some drones. But the more you practice multitasking, the more you realize the types of engagements where it's ok to look away momentarily.
This is a great example of the meeting point of Real Time and Strategy. I think Br3ezy and I prolly skimmed over this idea because it is the type of thing that falls more under decision making or strategy. I will def add a part to Part 3.4 on this though so as not to appear to be condemning something that might in fact be the correct move in a given situation.
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forgg now uses twitch not own3d. may want to edit that.
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You should really add Liquid`HerO's stream to that list of streams. Watch his first person. To the people I have seen from FPVOD, he has the absolute cleanest/fastest play. MC is also very good but not as good as HerO in my opinion.
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On March 12 2012 12:07 MjoLniRXx wrote:
You should really add Liquid`HerO's stream to that list of streams. Watch his first person. To the people I have seen from FPVOD, he has the absolute cleanest/fastest play. MC is also very good but not as good as HerO in my opinion.
To this and any other people that want to recommend streams, PM me and/or Br3ezy with recommendations.
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Good stuff.
However, I think that the "spam" approach is possibly a somewhat tainted way to describe what you are trying to explain.
Just as a few people in the thread have shown, when people think of spamming, they instantly jump to the conclusion of spamming 345345345 repeatedly in order to simply improve their sc2gears APM. This is inaccurate.
The "spam" approach as you mention, is simply the act of forcing yourself to play faster, even if it means you are giving up accuracy(and thus, playing worse) for a certain period of time.
The body will not improve at anything unless you push it past the point of what it is already comfortable with.
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On March 12 2012 12:39 dream-_- wrote:
Good stuff.
However, I think that the "spam" approach is possibly a somewhat tainted way to describe what you are trying to explain.
Just as a few people in the thread have shown, when people think of spamming, they instantly jump to the conclusion of spamming 345345345 repeatedly in order to simply improve their sc2gears APM. This is inaccurate.
The "spam" approach as you mention, is simply the act of forcing yourself to play faster, even if it means you are giving up accuracy(and thus, playing worse) for a certain period of time.
The body will not improve at anything unless you push it past the point of what it is already comfortable with.
This most certainly a hard concept to put into word, I might reword parts of that section. The point on spam is correct, it has a place in adding to hand speed and mental pace.
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you should add gostiterran,his mechanicv very very good.
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Ill update some typos that were pointed out later today as well as adding MC, Hero, gositerran (had no idea he streamed, thats sick), forgg (correct url). Any other streams that should be added?
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I'm not sure about the raw speed thing.
My model for Terran play is Polt, and his play is very accurate, but kinda slow. And his mechanics don't seems to be lacking as a less than 200 apm player.
But the whole guide is pretty good adive, specialy the FPVOD thing.
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Great post!
I believe everyone here would gain from improving their mechanics. That being said its not an easy thing to do. I have tried a few times to increase my APM but I never stuck with it because spamming decreased my skill by so much I couldnt stand losing games just because I was working on my APM.
Also could you talk about how being relaxed affects your mechanics? If you see a masters player compared to a pro-gamer the pro will play just as or faster but look way more relaxed in doing all the actions.
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On March 13 2012 00:46 Noocta wrote:
I'm not sure about the raw speed thing.
My model for Terran play is Polt, and his play is very accurate, but kinda slow. And his mechanics don't seems to be lacking as a less than 200 apm player.
But the whole guide is pretty good adive, specialy the FPVOD thing.
I believe you are regarding that as starcraft 2 apm. In real apm, it would come out to be around 250
On March 13 2012 01:42 ShaneFeit wrote:
Great post!
I believe everyone here would gain from improving their mechanics. That being said its not an easy thing to do. I have tried a few times to increase my APM but I never stuck with it because spamming decreased my skill by so much I couldnt stand losing games just because I was working on my APM.
Also could you talk about how being relaxed affects your mechanics? If you see a masters player compared to a pro-gamer the pro will play just as or faster but look way more relaxed in doing all the actions.
The real result that you are seeing when a progamer plays is that it has nothing to do whether they look relaxed or stressed, but that they have practiced what they did enough so that it has become their default habits while a masters player will generally not have practiced at the same level. Because of that, the masters player will not have the solid smooth play to fall back on when his subconcious begins to take over. You can never remove stress from play that matters to you. Don't try to! The real answer to achieve that result is to practice things CORRECTLY to the point that your matches that matter will default to that style.
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One of the best posts on TL I have read, thanks a lot man!
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Uh what if you're in a situation where your APM between races varies HUGELY? When i play Zerg i have an APM of 240, eapm of 160, when i play Terran I have an APM of 200 and EAPM of 110, and when I play Toss I have an APM of 140 and EAPM of 105. My Zerg and Toss are probably at a high diamond level, and my Terran is at a high plat to mid diamond level. Can you explain these differences? All these values are from sc2gears.
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i didnt read all of it, but i LOVED how you put the eapm part together.
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On March 13 2012 09:52 theLiminator wrote:
Uh what if you're in a situation where your APM between races varies HUGELY? When i play Zerg i have an APM of 240, eapm of 160, when i play Terran I have an APM of 200 and EAPM of 110, and when I play Toss I have an APM of 140 and EAPM of 105. My Zerg and Toss are probably at a high diamond level, and my Terran is at a high plat to mid diamond level. Can you explain these differences? All these values are from sc2gears.
For me, my zerg is about 290 apm/200eapm and my terran is 290apm/170eapm and my protoss is like 260apm/160eapm. Its just the race and that some like terran need to be more redundant then others and the actions that you have to do with say zerg more then terran or vice versa.
Your skill with each race also will tweak things a little bit, but in general zerg is equal or greater then terran and then protoss should have the least apm
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Could you post some FPVODs + Videos of your hands on your keyboards? I mean having those synced up, so i can kinda see what you're doing all the time? Cuz I actually have no clue how you could play Toss at that speed. It seems like you play really fast, and with pretty low redundancy.
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Just as a warning to protoss players watching the suggested streams; while hero and HuK are great protoss' with good mechanics, they do a lot of crazy shit. If I were a player looking to improve my mechanics, I would steer more toward a standard sort of player.
good guide, nice that people take time to write stuff up.
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One of the most well written guides I've read! Well done.
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On March 13 2012 05:24 Br3ezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 00:46 Noocta wrote:
I'm not sure about the raw speed thing.
My model for Terran play is Polt, and his play is very accurate, but kinda slow. And his mechanics don't seems to be lacking as a less than 200 apm player.
But the whole guide is pretty good adive, specialy the FPVOD thing. I believe you are regarding that as starcraft 2 apm. In real apm, it would come out to be around 250
Might be.
But in the same game where Polt was at 175 average apm, Stephano was at 320. So that would mean he gets to a real apm of 400+ ? That's crazy.
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EPT
