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ma70
253 Posts
On March 21 2012 03:13 NoisyNinja wrote: I gave this build a fair shot and did everything it says. All zerg had to do was a 2 base roach all in Very vague. Did you bother adapting? If you don't mind me asking, what league are you in? | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
On March 21 2012 03:13 NoisyNinja wrote: I gave this build a fair shot and did everything it says. All zerg had to do was a 2 base roach all in Let me guess, you tried it once, you got allined, you didnt adapt or you did bad job with scouting and you ended up losing | ||
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BlazeTSR
United States218 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
16 pylon (low) 17 nexus 17 zealot 18 assim (This change slightly delays nexus however reduces probe cut) 20 zealot (Core should be somewhere here between the 2nd and 3rd zealot, at around 3:45-3:50, 5 seconds delayed compared to original one, however you will have a spare chronoboost to still hit the timing) 24 zealot (Forge usually after 3rd zealots since 3 zealots right now can hold most kind of pressures until cannon is up, if you scout him going for offense, you can get forge after 2nd zealot and not 3rd in case you scout pressure with probe and then you chrono a 4th zealot too and pull some probes to defend) This rearrangement is supposed to give you a slightly better economy as well as a safe possibility to get a later forge. I'm still working on it, so this isn't as safe to try as the original build. Another note, micro and decision making plays an essential role in the success of the build, so most of the times you can just use better unit positioning, better micro, closer proxy pylons and better decision making and you'll be fine. I have showed in the latest replay how it's possible to get an earlier robo, however I'm still trying to figure how I can get better tech while still being safe to all pressures and stuff. Recently, I was trying some other stuff you can do with the same opening: -3-4 zealot fake pressure (while getting tech instead of 3 gates and +1) -Getting early stargate instead of 4 gate pressure and then using phoenixes to blink with stalkers to harass Getting a stargate won't allow you to punish a 3rd and reduce worker count, however phoenixes will boost stalker effectiveness and may force early spore crawlers. | ||
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InVerno
258 Posts
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Larias
United States75 Posts
On March 21 2012 05:31 InVerno wrote: Well, its not a bad build at all.. expecially the transition and the later timing push.. No pros use it, so probably the propagation of this build will be determined in how much time this thread is up on the strategy section, but at least its a goody try and i really appreciate the effort. Well, i've tryed like ten times, and the thing i really dont like is.. well its like honey for allins, im not complaining about losses, but only the medium duration of a PvZ if i do this build..its kinda frustrating, i hope more people will do it, so zerg players will learn how to macro respond instead of a 19dronesbullshitallin. Goodjob anyway. The key is to scout with your zealots. I have seen the same thing, zergs tend to all in against this more so than a normal FFE. | ||
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Nyast
Belgium554 Posts
 I really like those 1 gate FE builds with early pressure. They're not as economic as FFE of course, but if the timing is so early, Zerg can't drone too fast either, and if he takes a third he auto loses it. | ||
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TheHau
United States11 Posts
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On March 21 2012 04:08 Roynalf wrote: Let me guess, you tried it once, you got allined, you didnt adapt or you did bad job with scouting and you ended up losing No. Did it 10 times, and 7 were losses. Yes, a few were sloppy, but without forcefields, Zerg can easily overrun an early game protoss. Simple as that. | ||
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polysciguy
United States488 Posts
On March 21 2012 11:36 NoisyNinja wrote: No. Did it 10 times, and 7 were losses. Yes, a few were sloppy, but without forcefields, Zerg can easily overrun an early game protoss. Simple as that. then stop following the guide and get force fields, you are already doing the economic damage by him making units instead of drones | ||
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Thiole
United States18 Posts
this build is identical to this | ||
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matrius
100 Posts
I believe I can answer this question - other than an all in with roaches, you will want 7 +1 zealots instead of 4/4 @ 7:20. I used this opener, and ran into several zergs who just went mass speedlings, and stalkers are *truly* useless against them. However, +1 zealots trade very well against mass zerglings. A single sentry is just bad in either mass zerglings or zergling/roach, you should be able to maneuver your zealots against a wall, or next to minerals/hatchery to make sure they don't get surrounded by zerglings. If you see roaches, just retreat, the can't have speed yet. I have been able to get the hatchery even with roaches just popping... The biggest problem I found with this build at the diamond level was just making sure to scout properly and build extra defenses if he tries to all in me. This is the same problem I found with FFE, btw. As well, I generally made a robo if I knew he was going roaches - immortals are so good vs. roach. I'm also thinking that if vs roaches, getting a SG and a couple of voids would be great as well. Send the voids and a couple of zealots to his rebuilt third and then blink into his main to kill his workers off. I didn't win all my games with this build, but its mostly my own macro issues, or not knowing correct unit compositions. PvT was definitely my best (highest winning %) match up. One other thing I noticed is that this build gives you and advantage against zerg's that go for fast thirds, but if they aren't greedy, and don't get that fast third, then its anyone's game. Anyway, hope that helps! On March 21 2012 07:40 Nyast wrote: I have a variation of that build that hits at 7'20 with 4 zealots and 4 stalkers; it's basically a 4 gate on 2 nexii, out of a 1 gate FE ( there's also a zealot, a stalker and a sentry in the early stage for scouting and defense ). The negative side is that there's no forge or +1 on the horizon. I'm wondering what is best: pressure with 7 zealots +1, or pressure with 4 zealots and 4 stalkers without upgrades ? I can also do 4 zealots, 3 stalkers and a sentry, but I'm not sure a single FF helps I really like those 1 gate FE builds with early pressure. They're not as economic as FFE of course, but if the timing is so early, Zerg can't drone too fast either, and if he takes a third he auto loses it. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On March 21 2012 22:31 Thiole wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gate_Nexus_YufFE#Replays this build is identical to this did you even read the OP? Great detective work sherlock. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On March 23 2012 22:43 da_head wrote: @OP: Any update on the revised build? I was practicing the more refined version today on na. I'll post a replay of how does it look more or less. http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Adonminus_vs_(Z)Silent/18923 | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Thiole
United States18 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On March 25 2012 01:48 Thiole wrote: can you do stargate play without doing collosi with this build, like double stargate into carrier play? Yes I think it's possible to do this +1 4 gate pressure, then get faster gases and get 2 stargates. Then you can follow the stalkerless PvZ strategy and eventually get carriers: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=300535 | ||
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Thiole
United States18 Posts
On March 25 2012 02:24 Adonminus wrote: Yes I think it's possible to do this +1 4 gate pressure, then get faster gases and get 2 stargates. Then you can follow the stalkerless PvZ strategy and eventually get carriers: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=300535 ty  edit: by the way can you show a replay of you doing it, im mid level so itd be cool to emulate a playstyle :x | ||
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aznkukuboi
120 Posts
On March 21 2012 09:49 TheHau wrote: If you are going this build, what do you do against a Zerg that just ling all ins you? I have lost quite a few game recently where I send out my 3 zeals and a probe only to get surronded in the middle of the map by mass ling at like 6 min and then they are into my natural before I have time to get any cannons up or enough zeals to stop them. Today I lost my nexus and everything at my natural to a ling run by when my zealots were far away. But I kept my gates up ramp. I defended the super mass ling push and then proceeded to win with mass zealots. Are you sure you are handling it right? The only big issue I see with this build are baneling busts, but should be able to hold other all ins. Maybe it's just me, but this build is harder to pull off in lower leagues. Higher leagues rely on the zerg droning and grabbing a quick third. This build punishes that type of heavy macro build. I've downright taken out the zerg's third in 75% of my games. The hard part is follow up. I do a 7 gate blink stalker all in. If the zerg is keeping up with larvae injects and decent macro, his two bass roach/ling will be on par with your zealot/stalker/ few sentries. While I put of pressure, I will get +3 and round of zealots instead of stalkers to save the gas. Once +3 hits, the zerg can't stop it. Most of the time they'll only have +1 and you'll have such an advantage to win. I try not to make the game further than that because I can't win vs a macro zerg. Other times I've lost with this build is when they scout my proxy pylon and I'm unable to warp in the 4 zealots. My 3 zealots die to whatever comes at me. This puts me behind and zerg drones behind it on 3 base to eventually overrun you with units. If you are facing a silver zerg, the guy is just gonna mass lings and do a fast run by regardless. | ||
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