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On January 24 2012 04:38 greenknight999 wrote:
Corruptors are a bad response.
Get the HSC4 replay pack off liquipedia and go to groupstage 2 -> group a -> dimaga vs darkforce -> meta
That is how you counter mutalisks.
The counter to muta is just attacking, they are a weak battle unit that gets destroyed by micro.
Queen / Hydra / Infestor hard counter the mutalisk, throw in a few more units to deal with enemy ground army and they will collapse to a push.
Zerg have the most effective anti-mutalisk spell with fungal growth with the other spell for the same caster being rapid spam of free anti-air infested terrans(!), it's always a bit eye-brow raising to see substantial numbers of mutas in z v z.
I really don't like this corruptor talk because it does not exploit the weakness of the enemy strategy.
It is an attempt to beat the enemy unit, not the enemy strategy. I feel that is fundamentally wrong.
That's not a counter, that was just an allin by dimaga that luckily worked.
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Why use Corruptors when you can use Queens and spend 0 gas, so that it can go to your infestors + tech?
Not to mention spread creep faster to your potential third base so that you can eventually use spore/spine/queen defense there as well?
Not to mention the fact that Queens can be added to a push you can make mid/end game.
Not to mention the fact that Corruptors become useless if the other player stops making mutalisks immediately and switches to roach/hydra.
Not to mention......................
close the thread. thanks.
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On January 24 2012 07:08 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 04:38 greenknight999 wrote:
Corruptors are a bad response.
Get the HSC4 replay pack off liquipedia and go to groupstage 2 -> group a -> dimaga vs darkforce -> meta
That is how you counter mutalisks.
The counter to muta is just attacking, they are a weak battle unit that gets destroyed by micro.
Queen / Hydra / Infestor hard counter the mutalisk, throw in a few more units to deal with enemy ground army and they will collapse to a push.
Zerg have the most effective anti-mutalisk spell with fungal growth with the other spell for the same caster being rapid spam of free anti-air infested terrans(!), it's always a bit eye-brow raising to see substantial numbers of mutas in z v z.
I really don't like this corruptor talk because it does not exploit the weakness of the enemy strategy.
It is an attempt to beat the enemy unit, not the enemy strategy. I feel that is fundamentally wrong. That's not a counter, that was just an allin by dimaga that luckily worked.
That is literally the counter to mutalisks.
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I've been using corruptors against muta since when the game still had Jungle Basin in the map pool.
Remember that map was muta heaven in zvz. Anyway, I'm sad to say that pure corruptors is a poor choice...
They are actually significantly slower than mutas...to the point that mutas can actively evade them.
There have been many games where I was unable to catch the muta flock until it ran completely out of control and there's nothing you can do.
These days against muta, I have to get infestors
or 2 base hydra push
or mutas myself with added corruptors for the extra HP.
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this is a temp solution. Corrupters do beat muta in low numbers but once muta hit critical mass they start to win again. that in addition to the fact that the corrupters lack of speed and inability to hit the ground makes the unit sorta worthless.
maybe something lke a roach corrupter timing well the muta count is hovering around 15 or less but this assumes you had all the information you needed way before hand.
Possibly viable but requires a lot going in your favor
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I think a lot of the people here are missing the point. Given that corrupters trade more efficiently, you need fewer and with less investment to counter mutas. That leaves you with more resources for a stronger ground force. It is do-able but requires a lot of micro.
The question should be whether it is efficient enough that your ground army wont get stomped by the opponent zerg's ground units + mutas focusing down your ground units; ending up with corrupters for you, and ground army for your opponent. The corruption debuff can also be clutch in this scenario. Now you have a stronger ground army, add the extra damage from the corruption debuff, and you're looking at a pretty good chance to killing your opponent's army.
Is that still enough? Opponent zerg will reinforce with ground units only (seeing corruptor) and you will have a dwindled army in opponent base - unless you pull out and come back with an even bigger ground army.
You have to threaten the opponent base and force mutas to engage you, otherwise he will send mutas to your mineral line while engaging with ground army. And If he tries to base-trade with just mutas, you will come ahead due to stronger ground forces and corruption debuff (to kill opponent ground forces) and take out buildings faster than mutas can.
So, I think it is do-able, but requires a lot of micro (which can hurt your macro and end up losing the game). If you want to counter with a-move, then go for hydras against mutas. Infestors come close second, A move and cast aoe. With corruptors, you a-move and single cast.
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On January 24 2012 09:53 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 07:08 FabledIntegral wrote:On January 24 2012 04:38 greenknight999 wrote:
Corruptors are a bad response.
Get the HSC4 replay pack off liquipedia and go to groupstage 2 -> group a -> dimaga vs darkforce -> meta
That is how you counter mutalisks.
The counter to muta is just attacking, they are a weak battle unit that gets destroyed by micro.
Queen / Hydra / Infestor hard counter the mutalisk, throw in a few more units to deal with enemy ground army and they will collapse to a push.
Zerg have the most effective anti-mutalisk spell with fungal growth with the other spell for the same caster being rapid spam of free anti-air infested terrans(!), it's always a bit eye-brow raising to see substantial numbers of mutas in z v z.
I really don't like this corruptor talk because it does not exploit the weakness of the enemy strategy.
It is an attempt to beat the enemy unit, not the enemy strategy. I feel that is fundamentally wrong. That's not a counter, that was just an allin by dimaga that luckily worked. That is literally the counter to mutalisks.
No, it isn't.
If it was, Dimaga wouldn't have tried to take a third earlier. He would have just done it. It was a desperation attack that worked.
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On January 24 2012 11:15 plogamer wrote:
I think a lot of the people here are missing the point. Given that corrupters trade more efficiently, you need fewer and with less investment to counter mutas. That leaves you with more resources for a stronger ground force. It is do-able but requires a lot of micro.
The first problem is that the corruptors are not actually that effective at defending against mutas because they're too slow. The enemy can run circles around you and slowly pick apart the edges of your base.
The question should be whether it is efficient enough that your ground army wont get stomped by the opponent zerg's ground units + mutas focusing down your ground units; ending up with corrupters for you, and ground army for your opponent. The corruption debuff can also be clutch in this scenario. Now you have a stronger ground army, add the extra damage from the corruption debuff, and you're looking at a pretty good chance to killing your opponent's army.
Is that still enough? Opponent zerg will reinforce with ground units only (seeing corruptor) and you will have a dwindled army in opponent base - unless you pull out and come back with an even bigger ground army.
Most muta play involves having a lot of spines at their bases, meaning your army advantage will be nullified. Perhaps you can try and circumvent this with nydus or something, but generally I don't think it's going to work out as you would hope.
You have to threaten the opponent base and force mutas to engage you, otherwise he will send mutas to your mineral line while engaging with ground army. And If he tries to base-trade with just mutas, you will come ahead due to stronger ground forces and corruption debuff (to kill opponent ground forces) and take out buildings faster than mutas can.
If this is your goal, then you might as well get hydras instead, since they're going to be more effective than corruptors in most situations.
Basically, corruptors probably don't have enough advantages over the alternatives (hydralisk, infestor) to warrant their use.
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On January 24 2012 11:57 Slithe wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2012 11:15 plogamer wrote:
I think a lot of the people here are missing the point. Given that corrupters trade more efficiently, you need fewer and with less investment to counter mutas. That leaves you with more resources for a stronger ground force. It is do-able but requires a lot of micro. The first problem is that the corruptors are not actually that effective at defending against mutas because they're too slow. The enemy can run circles around you and slowly pick apart the edges of your base.
The question should be whether it is efficient enough that your ground army wont get stomped by the opponent zerg's ground units + mutas focusing down your ground units; ending up with corrupters for you, and ground army for your opponent. The corruption debuff can also be clutch in this scenario. Now you have a stronger ground army, add the extra damage from the corruption debuff, and you're looking at a pretty good chance to killing your opponent's army.
Is that still enough? Opponent zerg will reinforce with ground units only (seeing corruptor) and you will have a dwindled army in opponent base - unless you pull out and come back with an even bigger ground army.
Most muta play involves having a lot of spines at their bases, meaning your army advantage will be nullified. Perhaps you can try and circumvent this with nydus or something, but generally I don't think it's going to work out as you would hope.
You have to threaten the opponent base and force mutas to engage you, otherwise he will send mutas to your mineral line while engaging with ground army. And If he tries to base-trade with just mutas, you will come ahead due to stronger ground forces and corruption debuff (to kill opponent ground forces) and take out buildings faster than mutas can.
If this is your goal, then you might as well get hydras instead, since they're going to be more effective than corruptors in most situations. Basically, corruptors probably don't have enough advantages over the alternatives (hydralisk, infestor) to warrant their use.
True say. I was doing my best to play the devil's advocate. 
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I've been testing out a build for ZvZ using corruptors. Check out the replays below.
Basically I open roaches to turtle up but this can also cause my opponent to go spines and a roach warren themselves which is good for me because I'm not going to be attacking him directly.
I proceed to tech and get spire and get about 5 corruptors and if they go muta i go more corruptors with the armor upgrade. I try and kill as many overlords as i can while teching and spining. I suppose you can use your minerals for lings but i prefer spines.
Often the reaction to the broodlords is to all in with their ground army so I sack my third and just spine my nat more and sometimes use infestors which I got earlier to build up energy.
I haven't often had problems vsing muta because they give up on that tech most of the time. I find you can micro the corruptors very easily against muta and just try and spread them out. The corruptors have a decent range for micro if you practice it in a unit tester online.
I admit this is not a stable build but it can throw people off.
If anyone watches the replays some constructive criticism about how to further the build and make it more stable would be most welcome.
Replays:
http://www.mediafire.com/?0l5dvrlhtl00040
http://www.mediafire.com/?29138pu17p0c05y
http://www.mediafire.com/?9h01cqcl59avude
http://www.mediafire.com/?vjry8v4cve1yti0
http://www.mediafire.com/?doqwbrn8qe28x13
http://www.mediafire.com/?y4crt6972koy889
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On January 21 2012 23:15 Cereb wrote:
Lol. People are so stubborn in their ways. I bet most of the people who replied here have no actual experience with it.
Imo, Curroptors are actually brilliant vs mutas...
I faced this guy some time ago, I scouted around and it appeared that we were both going for a spire so I was ready to get some huge muta battles rolling...
Then when his lair was done he made an overseer to scout my base which really confused me cause I thought he was going mutas too.
He scouts my spire being done and then for a little while nothing happens but when I'm ready to go out with my mutas he shows up with a bunch of curroptors.
My mutas became completely useless and when I finally tried to fight him I just lost every muta. From that point on he just went around killing every overlord I had. Only to do a roach timing afterwards..
I got absolutely smashed, I think it's a sick good metagame kinda strategy.
I don't like to go spire but if I did I would go curroptor every game if I scouted spire. It was not even close.
The problem here is that you went mutas and he went corruptors, the problem was that you went mutas and he went corruptors and you simply engaged him in a fight that you could not win...
I mean isn't it commonly known that you can run away, in a ground fight if you rock up and your opponent has good army composition and it's 50% larger than you do you engage? no you run away...it's pretty simple
Corruptors can't attack ground, why not fly your mutas constantly over the spores. Your mutas are faster, take them home then how about run them to his base snipe some probes, take them home, repeat. He will either have to build his own anti-air at his base or keep his corrupters there.
Whilst his econemy is weakened from building inefficient corruptors you can tech to infestors and have a roach/hydra/infestor timing attack if he is pushing for hive (easily scouted just drop some changlings and what not) heck just fly your mutas over if you can. If you not going to attack smash out some probes, tech and get an expansion, do not fear his corruptors can't actually hurt your expansion yay
all you have to do is stop making mutas, transition to a ground army and utalise your better economy and the fact that his corrupters can't strengthen his own ground army, it's gg
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Should we really be talking aboute Hive tech in ZvZ? Broodlords should be taken out of the list of reasons to get them, that would only be as a bonus if it is actuly good. Personally I dont think its good, mutas are faster so you still cant move out, and they can just swich to a ground army soo.
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EPT
