EPT[H] Can't win TvZ at all. - Page 2
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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Pneumothorax
United Kingdom68 Posts
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ftjust
Sweden43 Posts
in platinum league i had some 80% winrate vs zerg, but when i came up to diamond it switched to 20% for a while since i couldent understand, (my macro was just to bad) and when i did aggressive builds like hellions/banshe etc i felt like i have to kill atleast 20+ workers with my first pressure/attacks in order to keep equal macro, in platinum it was good enough for 80% i was a baller. well the end resualt of my sc2 T experience is i play very casual to keep me mid/low diamond. and i have maybe 2 to 1 W/L ratio When i focus my very best every game! exhausting! (i cant play more then 3-5 games during a whole day) and when i find myself high diamond/low master.. i have like 1/3 W/L ratio but that is less fun for me. (very competitive and HATE loosing!) but thats allso the reason i have 2 accounts, one for serious play and one for goofing having fun and enjoying the game as intended! | ||
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wangtan83
United States1 Post
My opening for TvZ is helion reactor (make 2 helions), then swap back to barrack-reactor. followed up with cloak-banshee (or non-cloak banshee if he gas steal you). This should keep zerg at bay while you take your nat & make more rax with stim. Mid game (10-12 min) try to clear up some creep while doing marine-medv drop. Usually zerg doesn't have much army at this point since he spend time & resources on spines, spores & queens initially to defend against helions/banshee. Up to this point, usually i'm ahead in terms of econ and tech. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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Picklebread
808 Posts
1. Okay you lost @ like 8 mins 40 seconds, you randomly decide to move out. This is what i dont like about that decision: a. zerg wasnt taking a 3rd base. If your on 2base vs a zerg 2base, your in pretty good shape. If zergs still on 2base like he was, hes either building up on lings (for bane bust or 2base mass ling to stop pushes) or teching 2base lair. I think you were anticipating a 3rd maybe, or idk that push didnt make any sense. b..You teched to medivacs anyway, you shoulda just dropped his would be third or just dropped him and take back intel. c.Your army just wasnt big enough to do any type of push at that point, and you had no reason to do so. 2.You had no scout on his lair timing. That is a very telling timing. If you see his lair is just getting up at 9:30 for example and he has no 3rd, i would expect 2base spire / infestors. I like to make timing attacks, so one you could make there is to attack at 11 mins to force banes with marine tank, kill a third if one gets up, or just to put pressure on the zerg. 3. Okay this is very good. @ 11 mins you do a drop to scout a third, you see there is no third. You have 2 good response: a.start a third at your natural and go double engi bay, and focus for a 1-1/2-2 timing and just fend off mutas if he does decide to go for that. b.Go for an attack at 11 mins to add some pressure. I personally would go for a. because if you get a third up before the zerg, only way i feel like he can equalize is by double expoing, in which case 1-1 timing or 2-2 would be pretty sick. 4.@12:30 you coulda forced a cancel on his third i think with your marines in that drop. That would've been really good. I also see your going double engi bay right now. What i woulda liked was for you to get a third up as well. I also noticed you werent very good at constantly building tanks. Thats really really bad. You want to always constantly be building siege tanks more then anything. 5.@15 mins okay mutas wrecking your main. That was really really bad because 10 marines with those turrets deter all that harassment, and that harassment really really really put you in not as best a positon as you coulda been in. Despite this, i think you coulda won with that push. Heres what went wrong: a. Low siege tank count when it coulda been higher. Honestly, coulda been around 5-6 and that woulda been alot scarier. b.15:40 You saw banes morphing on top of that ramp. The idea is you want to send a couple rines up front not your whole bio ball. You shouldve split like 4 marines to run at the top there, maybe little handful to the fourth he had like 4 rines couple marauders and split rest of the marines / rauders around the siege tanks. Instead, this is what happened. His lings surround you a little bit and a couple banes hit your bio ball when you shouldve ran back with your bio and target fired with siege tanks onto the banelings. You wouldve lost alot less there, hell almost nothing at all. That was a huge mistake. c. After that little engagement there, your bioball was just standing in the middle there durping. You shoulda went to the 4th and tried to snipe it, and ran home with your siege tank because that little ball you had was like gonna do nothing. 6. Okay those mutas wrecked your main. They did way more damage then tthey shouldve. if you detered them then you woulda been in an okay position to but they killed reactors and i think 2 barracks. Big damage to your production. 7. Okay so after you get crushed like that in a push, extremely likely of a counter attack. If your macro hadnt been attacked like it had, then that wouldve done nothing. Your units also werent all together which was really bad. Imagine 5 m,ore marines there and all your marines were there (excluding ones that were in the medivac) that woulda done nothing. 8. You have 3 facts. You choose to build a reactor on 1 and pump hellions. I just dont like it because you really needed to get your siege tank production up, and getting out 3 facts worth of siege tanks woulda really helped you. Your also floating like 1.2k + gas. If your floating that much gas with terran, i honestly woulda just took every1 outta gas and just powered on minerals for a little bit. Thats way too much gas for terran. 9.19 minutes. Your army was not big at all, and since its so small, theres no point in pushing. You should expect to get absolutely demolished, so what do you do? turtle. Put marines in your main maybe 1 thor too and just deter every sort of damage zerg trys to do, mutas killed like 5 reactors when they shouldnt have if you had marines in place. Also, its a good time to drop to get some damage done instead. 10.Okay, its 21 mins or something where he decides to kill you with his lings and mutas and do an attack. You had alot of hellions, that doesnt help very much. 2 siege tanks wouldve helped alot more. You needed more siege tanks and more marines, and some bunkers in the front (say 4) wouldve helped alot too. GG from there... You really need to work on picking like 1 decision : defend or attack. If you choose defend you really need to turtle up and deter mutas as much as you can. Hope this helped. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
I was immediately confused as to why you choose to open with a gas FE into hellion mauarder as I can't imagine that push doing very well ever really as a 2base timing, it only really works as a 1base all-in imo. -basically you delayed your expansion considerably for no benefit there I also noticed that you ignored a couple of really good opportunities around 7-10 minutes to totally set back his creep spread. You werent even nearly ready for mutas, a good muta player would have crushed you against the 4 marines and a couple turrets you had all the way up to 13minuets. With magic boxing I would say he could have beat you immediately when his mutas popped if he was better. Your unit composition seems to be decided almost completely at random. Try watching a few pro streams to get more of an idea of how TvZ is typically played paying particular attention to unit transitions. I was especially surprised at your bio use without a starport. Your 3rd timing was pretty good but maybe make it a PF on a map like shak plat with an opponent who stayed on 2 base for a long time. Definitely read docs guide to TvZ although the metagame has shifted a bit to 3OC openings its still pretty relevant. | ||
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