EPTI was thinking about marine tank medivac raven ghost, but it seems like if I do that I would have so little of everything.
TvZ How to deal with infestor/ling (stephano)
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Defiled
16 Posts
I was thinking about marine tank medivac raven ghost, but it seems like if I do that I would have so little of everything. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
Another thing are banshees, as infestors dont have that much energy at first, having a few banshees (dont stack them!) means that zerg pretty much cant leave his creep, as it costs alot of energy and time to kill single banshees. Also its important to build 1-2 vikings later to remove overlords, so your drops wont be spotted before landing. that makes them much more powerful. | ||
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Br3ezy
United States720 Posts
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On January 16 2012 07:06 DarKFoRcE wrote: I think its somewhat vulnerable to blueflame hellion / marine timings that hit before infestors are out. There used to be a quite popular combatshield + blueflame push some time ago, which should do quite good. an example would be Mvp against Nestea on Daybreak in their recent GSL match, Nestea tried to rely on lings (+ morphing banes when he saw the push coming) to defend and was killed quite easily. Another thing are banshees, as infestors dont have that much energy at first, having a few banshees (dont stack them!) means that zerg pretty much cant leave his creep, as it costs alot of energy and time to kill single banshees. Also its important to build 1-2 vikings later to remove overlords, so your drops wont be spotted before landing. that makes them much more powerful. Yes i highly agree with this. http://drop.sc/92344 They rely on mass lings to defend midgame pushes normally, and well, 2fact BFH absolutely shits on this. I coulda built a viking too instead of that first medivac but i like to get that early medivac just makes my push feel alot stronger. Also keep in mind if people go infestor first, you dont have to build turrets for mutas. that saves you alot of mins, so i'd just either expand once or double expo because infestor first cant really kill you. Infestor first seems really weak imo. | ||
ReligionLOL
United States137 Posts
On January 16 2012 06:57 Defiled wrote: I am struggling as terran against infestor ling into ultra/brood lords. I normally can beat the muta bling players with my build and I use the same one against infestor ling but it is usually a loss. Pushing on creep with tanks is really hard against infestors with burrow. If I go too forward with marines ill get fungaled and if my tanks are out too forward, eggs get them killed. And I don't know any real signs or things I should scout for that would let me know he's going for infestor ling early on. Is there any good build that is solid against both? (Currently I use reactor helion into strong 2 base timing attack) Just watching thorzain get rolled today in the shoutcraft thing makes me feel that this style is just a bit op to be honest. I was thinking about marine tank medivac raven ghost, but it seems like if I do that I would have so little of everything. try mmm with tons of drops. get ghosts later. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On January 16 2012 07:20 Picklebread wrote: Yes i highly agree with this. http://drop.sc/92344 They rely on mass lings to defend midgame pushes normally, and well, 2fact BFH absolutely shits on this. I coulda built a viking too instead of that first medivac but i like to get that early medivac just makes my push feel alot stronger. Also keep in mind if people go infestor first, you dont have to build turrets for mutas. that saves you alot of mins, so i'd just either expand once or double expo because infestor first cant really kill you. Infestor first seems really weak imo. I'd like to think that most zerg players would throw down a roach warren if they scout 2fac...even if they are going festor ling. Zerg is the most reactive race, so you have to use your head and go roaches against 2fact, which most people would derive as mech play. I think Darkforce is right, marine hellion timings would be very strong, as we have seen in the GSL recently with Stephano v MVP | ||
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slwen
Australia37 Posts
I have a bit more success by simply getting more hellions off the first reactor (usually 6) which seems to force the roaches while I try for an earlier 3rd CC. I've been doing this blindly. My question is what should I be looking for early on to scout whether my opponent is going for this heavy ling style? | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:20 slwen wrote: I've been having trouble with this heavy ling style too - my style has usually been to get the hellions out, deny the Zerg 3rd and hit him with a big 2 base tank/marine attack at around 10-12 minutes. Unfortunately this gets crushed by a very heavy ling composition. I have a bit more success by simply getting more hellions off the first reactor (usually 6) which seems to force the roaches while I try for an earlier 3rd CC. I've been doing this blindly. My question is what should I be looking for early on to scout whether my opponent is going for this heavy ling style? Double Evo, Late gas/lair, an infestation pit around the 10 min mark, around 12 min hive. Stuff like that is indicative of ling festor ultra. Also I wouldnt recommend a tank marine push at that time. Your likely to just get wrecked. I'd suggest lots of drop play, coupled with heavy upgrades to negate zerg fast upgrades. | ||
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Lasbike
France2888 Posts
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Sergio1992
Italy522 Posts
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
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xTrim
472 Posts
But a good response, once scouted ling infestor, is not to really commit to the oh so good timing push at around 10 mins... Instead, get your third up and running, since lings and infestors simply cannot crush a PF with 5 tanks backing it up. Once you get your 6 geysers going, your starport should be up with a techlab so pump a raven really quick... (i personally dont go reactor medivacs in TvZ because it eats too much of the important gas... I like gtting a high tank count up, so I don stim that much)... the raven is SO GOOD in tvz... it is SO MUCH UNDERUSED... its so good to push into creep with detection and to clear baneling land mines... also, if you get caught with your pants down you should have energy for emergency PDDs versus mutas | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
If you want to get a lot of build order wins and not really learn much, then go for the slayers build from a few mlg's ago, reactor hellion expand, swap after 2 hellions --> blue flame marine hellion elevator. If you want to improve your army control and mechanics and decision making then I'd say go with a pretty standard marine mediavac with upgrades into tanks and a third base after a reactor hellion expand. 4-6 hellions, 2 more barracks, lift the fact, build a second reactor with it and an ebay and second gas, into starport and third gas. If you haven't thrown your hellions away, you'll be able to easily deny a greedy third from zerg, and/or clear out all of their creep spread if they're still on 2 base, it usually forces them to reveal their tech as well (basically if they're going 2 base spire, you'll see the mutas, or if they're going roach bane, you'll see a lot of roaches). Most importantly you can retreat, as they can't chase you off-creep with banes or roaches, and you have 4-6 hellions which prevent lings from following. | ||
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SmackDiablo
United States49 Posts
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
 + Of course you can transition into tanks pretty quickly | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
Against it, helion/marines pushes early are good; early marine tanks pushes are bad; multiple drops can become a nightmare, and terran playing more defensive and greedy is (imo, not sure) more efficient. | ||
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EvilZergling
United States194 Posts
I am not at home right now so I don't have my go to builds on hand but I would really try this helion+marine stim timing drop and see if it works for you. It does a really great job at catching the zerg completely off guard giving you just the right amount of marines to fully load two medivacs then just elevator the helions in, STIM and go. **First part is normal reactor factory opening** 9 - Supply 12 - Barracks 13 - Gas 15 - Orbital and 1 Marine 16 - Supply 17/18 - Factory 21 - Command Center and Reactor on Barracks **Once Reactor and Factory are complete swap them** (Going down from here I cannot remember the exact supply/timing as I'm not at home to provide it) 22 - Double helion production to 4 helions MAX then stop. 23 - At the same time that you swapped the addons you get a tech lab on the barracks immediately after it lands and start STIM @6:00 - You make 2 Barracks and lift the factory so that one of these Barracks is being made on the empty reactor @6:23 - Starport, Gas #2 and Reactor on Factory to swap for double medivacs Once the medivacs are up go and do your drop to a corner of their base they won't see, elevator the helions in if you can. Sorry the build is written in a messy fashion. This build has a great follow up to it. Just make sure that you never get supply blocked so that you have enough marines when you go drop. Tech lab on your factory after you move out and start tank production while non stop marine production on barracks, make your 3rd CC and start an engineering bay. -Good luck! | ||
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Pugwalker
50 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On January 16 2012 07:06 DarKFoRcE wrote: I think its somewhat vulnerable to blueflame hellion / marine timings that hit before infestors are out. There used to be a quite popular combatshield + blueflame push some time ago, which should do quite good. an example would be Mvp against Nestea on Daybreak in their recent GSL match, Nestea tried to rely on lings (+ morphing banes when he saw the push coming) to defend and was killed quite easily. Another thing are banshees, as infestors dont have that much energy at first, having a few banshees (dont stack them!) means that zerg pretty much cant leave his creep, as it costs alot of energy and time to kill single banshees. Also its important to build 1-2 vikings later to remove overlords, so your drops wont be spotted before landing. that makes them much more powerful. The problem I have with this though is that his choice to go for this build was not reactionary. He probably did it because he knows nestea's playstyle and I think it's bad for me to copy this as a legitimate ladder build. I usually do another Mvp build where you get 6 hellions and a fast third and I can handle mutas just fine but against infestor I just don't know what to do. I can't really push too early because I invest a lot into hellions and a 3rd CC and after the 10 minute mark the zerg will have too many infestors for me to really push into him. I'm not sure what the right transition is when you do a fast third build :/ Mvp loses almost in all the replays I got when he does the fast third build vs ling infestor (except in the one 45min game from blizzcon where nestea totally screws up in the end). I feel like it's a style win. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
Vikings is a nice touch to, to hunt ovies and they can also serve afterwards to look for hatches. I haven't really tried to use banshee's against that style. I suppose it could work well, but I kind of feel atleast if you are using them as a response, that they will be to late and creep spread will be good enough to stop any real use from them except simply for map control(which imo doesn't justify the cost). Things to consider about this style: You can split up your rines pre-fight and don't have to worry about muta flock annoyance. Adding in rauders helps to stim forward and snipe infestors. Lings aren't really good at killing rauders in siege range and FG is a waste on a couple of rauders. Personal opinion, but I don't really like ghosts against infestors. Ofcourse you will eventually be getting ghosts for t3, but before t3 is drawing nearer, I feel rauders are better since they deal better with lings(well they block lings more from rines rather), aren't as fragile, are faster, cheaper and like I said before, you can also use them to snipe infestors. In the end though, if you are going rine/tank/medivac, I kind of feel it's just always going to be a question of "does he get any money FGs?". If he doesn't and you've kept decently up with him in upgrades(very important, seeing as how upgrade heavy this style is), you *should* be winning the engagements, else he is likely going to crush you. | ||
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