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On January 09 2012 23:14 VoidRayRH wrote:
@TangSC - I totally agree. I go into almost every game thinking I am going to either 1 gate expand with the assumption I might have to 3 gate expand or that I am going to 1 gate robo to be safe. As far as pylon blocking, I usually only pylon block if I get walled into their base. I will do it then because my probe isn't escaping and I usually complement that with a gas steal too.
For the longest time when I was playing protoss in 1v1, I would just open 3gate pressure blindly. It seemed safe/economical enough to both hold off early pressure and get my expansion up pretty early.
For the sake of this guide though, I think it's important to look for things you can "cut" based on scouting information. I have noticed times when I don't need to get those 2 extra gates before expansion (1/1/1, gasless FE). In those circumstances it's very unlikely I'll be pressured hard early, and so 2 stalkers or so is typically enough to defend.
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I would just like to quickly add that most 2 rax builds ask for 2 raxes before the second depot. Scout for the second depot so if you scout one you know it either isn't a 2 rax or it is slightly delayed. If you don't see a depot that can lead you to further investigate and scout the map for a proxied barracks.
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On January 13 2012 15:07 Pugwalker wrote:
I would just like to quickly add that most 2 rax builds ask for 2 raxes before the second depot. Scout for the second depot so if you scout one you know it either isn't a 2 rax or it is slightly delayed. If you don't see a depot that can lead you to further investigate and scout the map for a proxied barracks.
I never thought of scouting the second depot timing, but that actually makes a lot of sense. I normally just probe scout, find out gas/barracks count, and pull out after one marine pops. Then I'll keep the probe at the natural area and scout up to see any addons/bunker/marine count but now I'll be checking to see the depot timing as well.
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Great scouting guide, found this really helpful with the logical breakdown.
Not sure if this is mentioned already, but when scouting 0 gas, can you include something about scouting some common cheese play? I often screw up because I see no gas, think its a gasless expand, but its like a proxy rax or bunker rush 
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If you scout no gas and see no barracks is obviously some cheesy play. If you see no gas on a large map, even if it cheese, if you see a barracks in there base, you should be fine to hold it as the rush distance will play in your favor.
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Nice, feel free to go ahead and make PvP and PvZ ^_^
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You should really add that if you see a second depot early on it is not going to be a 2 rax, or at least not one that can actually pressure a 1 gate expand. No second depot confirms it is a 2 rax and if you don't see the second rax it is proxied - either that, or the terran is proxying a second depot for some ungodly reason.
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On January 19 2012 13:55 VoidRayRH wrote:
If you scout no gas and see no barracks is obviously some cheesy play.
No. You have to check the SCV count, because it could be CC first. (Not on maps like XNC, obviously, but on some it's playable.)
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This guide is amazing I've been looking for something like this for so long and never have seen something so well-organized and concise
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On January 23 2012 05:57 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 13:55 VoidRayRH wrote:
If you scout no gas and see no barracks is obviously some cheesy play. No. You have to check the SCV count, because it could be CC first. (Not on maps like XNC, obviously, but on some it's playable.)
Yeah, you need to look for a second depot and the orbital timing. Some people might skip an orbital when doing a marine/scv all in, but that's pretty rare.
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good guide to help low leagues improve... but all these stuff are useless once you hit mid master and above.
As terran got better, they will be much more active with their first marine(s) and be smart on how they position them to deny probe scout. Gas or not, the guy could still pull scv off and expand behind a reactor. Greater yet they could even build a quick depo just to deny you scouting early.
Once your cyber finish, you have to choose whether or not to deny enemy scouting OR use your units to scout. Opportunity cost math hit you hardest here which often result in coin flip situation. Reactive play on high level games is almost unseen in the early stage of the game but most likely rock paper scissor with a slight advantage from the terran bc of scans.
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Dominican Republic39 Posts
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I had been searching everywhere for something like this thanks dude!
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I have a couple of issues with this guide.
First as a few people have already mentioned, a terran player who places 1 marine at the bottom of his ramp, micros correctly, and doesn't put his first rax as part of the wall in, you will not be able to scout anything after the marine is out. Obv doesn't hurt to try since you can pull probe back if you see the terran stutter his marine backwards, but its simply not reliable even if you commit to sacrificing the probe.
Secondly, when you send in the first zealot stalker across the map to poke up the ramp, good terran players are likely to have an scv out on the map, and have a huge window where their scv can come back and confirm your expansion/scout ur entire base. This is most problematic if you're trying to use your poke information to commit to an all in or tech cheese.
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Heya, I really wanna watch the vid in the op, but when I clickt he link it just takes me to http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/videos
and the video titled 'Voidray Tutorial: Scouting and Responding in PvT' Isnt actually a tutorial, noones talking during the entire thing its just Void ray's FPview. Is that it, or am i missing something?
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Awesome write-up Voidray! Really great read and is going to help immensely with my PvT (and hopefully the other match ups 
Gl and Hf!
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Great simple guide I have been having some issues just understanding some of the scouting info i get
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About the zeal/stalker poke/scout: against fast concussive shell 2-rax openings, the first marauder+rine are finished before you get to his base with concussive shell and either 2 more marauders or 1 more marauder + 2 rines about to finish very soon. Depending on map distance I find this VERY dangerous as getting hit with the first concussive shell essentially means losing both the stalker/zealot in the hands of a Terran with fast reactions.
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On January 25 2012 11:52 HardMacro wrote:
About the zeal/stalker poke/scout: against fast concussive shell 2-rax openings, the first marauder+rine are finished before you get to his base with concussive shell and either 2 more marauders or 1 more marauder + 2 rines about to finish very soon. Depending on map distance I find this VERY dangerous as getting hit with the first concussive shell essentially means losing both the stalker/zealot in the hands of a Terran with fast reactions.
You can either rescout with your probe just before the zealot stalker poke or poke with zealot probe as soon as the zealot arrives which is before concussive.
Also on many maps like meta and shattered you can run a unit by the edge of the cliff and see what shoots from the high ground while being able to get away safely because the ramp is a long distance from the cliff by ground.
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EPT
