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I usually open up with a reaper first opening into a bunker to combat 14 or 15 hatches since this at my level (high gold) is a very very popular build, usally able to force a lot of lings and sometimes even getting a snipe or a cancel on the hatch.
I then drop some racks and a facotry, from there the zerg usually tries to go sling bling muta or roach agression. Now to my uncertainty lingers when getting upgrades for terran, is it better to get +1 attack first or plus one armor first, i mean which one is more usefull +1 attack will allow me to kill things zerg units especially banelings quicker and plus one armor will allow me to stay alive longer but which is really more usefull, or what kind of situation would require one or the other first, srry if i sound like scrub guys ^^
*like the much easier dilemma is wheter to get stim or combat shield first, for what i usually do is if im going early bio aggression ill most likely get stim first if im getting tanks or trying to be defensive i get combat shields first
hope i havent bored you to death guys ^^ take it easy on me its my first im posting a question ill learn in time
more gg more skill
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Attack first is generally better, marines are ranged units so scale well with attack upgrades as often more marines are shooting than are being hit, and you also consider that roaches do 16(+2) damage.
In the end, 3 attack means you hit for 9 instead of 6, a 50% damage increase, but 3 armor means you take 13 damage instead of 16, really not a big deal. Your marines still get 2shot by banelings anyway.
There is not really any reason to go armor before weapons i think, even if you know he is going pure ling muta and never switching to other units, even with their low damage fast attacks, it is better to get attack vs them i think.
At low level its probably not a big deal, but attack upgrades scale amazingly with micro, too, if you can stutter step, split etc, your marines will live longer and the attack upgrades will have far more impact, whereas armor doesnt really have any major effect on their lifespan or how long they can shoot
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This page by the p00n has a nice breakdown of which is better first vs ling openings. I agree with his results and if he opens lings and you open bio I strongly suggest +1 armor first, then +1 attack.
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alot of the pro players actually get bio armor first, since armor is very good against low damage attacks (zerglings and muta bounce) but marines scale very well in upgrades in general (15% bonus dmg per upgrade) so double upgrades are very good aswell.
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+1 attack kills drones and buildings faster and deals with mutas more effectively.
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Marines attack way more then they get attacked. so attack upgrades always.
Not to mention attack upgrades are stronger then armor upgrades on marines.
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On December 19 2011 01:22 yallayalla wrote:
Marines attack way more then they get attacked. so attack upgrades always.
Not to mention attack upgrades are stronger then armor upgrades on marines.
You can't say attack upgrades are stronger than armor upgrades, as the strength of attack upgrades is measured by attack speed and bonus damage per upgrade, while armor upgrade value is measured by the opponent unit's attackspeed and damage value. Against zerglings, it is proven that armor is generally more valuable than weapons, although armor does nothing for you versus banelings and attack has the benefit of strengthening your octo drops. I still go for attack first, though armor first does have it's merits, so I guess either can be justified.
Although generally I'd recommend dual upgrading from +1/+1 and onwards.
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yeah but all the time your marines are in a bunker, behind depots, behind other units, etc they dont benefit anyhow from armor upgrades.
attack upgrades help everytime they shoot. especially useful when scaring mutas away/ while defending.
TvZ bio upgrades are so important that going double engineering bay is needed for +2/+2 or +2/+1 so this is just a debate of the first upgrade to get. (altough i try to figure out if its worth it to start with double engineering bay, even for +1/+1)
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Combat shields +1armor timingpush is actually kinda epic :D
But, after +1 armor, attack is better, for reasons stated, synergy with Stim, and the drop aspect.
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On December 19 2011 01:36 ToastieNL wrote:
Combat shields +1armor timingpush is actually kinda epic :D
But, after +1 armor, attack is better, for reasons stated, synergy with Stim, and the drop aspect.
altough +1 armor doesnt change anything vs banelings if you have combatshield.
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The general consensus seems to be +1 attack with micro is more usefull first, thanks everyone for your input everyone, but its quite dependant ont he situation 
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You only want armor against upgraded ling style. That means 1/1 started before lair tech. You want the attack first for mutalisks and against roach styles.
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On December 19 2011 00:26 Cyro wrote:
Attack first is generally better, marines are ranged units so scale well with attack upgrades as often more marines are shooting than are being hit, and you also consider that roaches do 16(+2) damage.
In the end, 3 attack means you hit for 9 instead of 6, a 50% damage increase, but 3 armor means you take 13 damage instead of 16, really not a big deal. Your marines still get 2shot by banelings anyway.
There is not really any reason to go armor before weapons i think, even if you know he is going pure ling muta and never switching to other units, even with their low damage fast attacks, it is better to get attack vs them i think.
Agreed, but don't forget +3 armor or a +3 baneling will 1 shot stimmed marines!
47 AOE dmg is scary O_o
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I think the question is flawed. Personally I think u shud go mech v Z. Then get +1 armor for your tanks n thors which makes them deadly vs lings and queens whose attack damage drops massively! 50% drop for queens and 40% drop for lings. Have some repairing SCVs along with thy mech and lay wastage to all Z bases.
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BioTech, I'm pretty sure that tank drops aren't as effective as you think. Yes mech armor is much more valuable than mech attack but the OP was asking about Bio upgrades for bio or bio-mech styles. Pure mech isn't going to win forever in the metagame.
I feel like vZ/P +1 attack does benefit most and in vT when you have more marines (let's say you're bio only and he wants tanks with bio) +1 attack helps more but armor upgrades help tremendously when outnumbered vT (let's say you're teching really hard and want a bio upgrade?).
When given the choice of what to start first in most matchups its attack, whereas armor sees much more cost efficientcy in different ways (bio play v bio play in T, ling/bling/muta in vZ)
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EPT
