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TvP Tactical Movement: Noblesse's Terran Clinic - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
December 19 2011 03:51 GMT
#41
The marine move back with marauders in front was genius. That should help me win some more of my TvPs.
FoxTheDream
Profile Joined December 2011
13 Posts
December 19 2011 10:37 GMT
#42
On December 19 2011 01:38 KawaiiRice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 00:02 statikg wrote:
On December 18 2011 17:16 KawaiiRice wrote:
Noblesse was only really allowed to do all these drop antics because Bischu engaged at 14 minutes meaning he couldn't split his army efficiently during the drop period because his army was so small. ;;

if that engage hadn't happened the blink stalker count + zealots would have been too much for small drops to happen


Kawaii you are an excellent player but sometimes I feel that you are not aware of the skill gap between pros and even mid masters. I would say that by 3base timing a drop is quite likely to cause an overreaction of enough of the protoss army for long enough that the rest of your forces can snipe the 3rd all the way up to mid masters. When you post so negatively on a subject you really influence alot of people to say "oh well I won't even bother if a pro says its not good". But in fact, it is good for most people and its especially important that low level terrans start to work on these kind of tactics even if they will need to learn the details of how it works later on a bit differently. That comes with experience.

um... so i shouldnt post?
basic push n drop stuff is fine yea but all this dropping around and around in every base for 4 minutes is not standard by any means and that was what I was referring to by "drop antics"


From your perspective what is the best way a Terran should approach trying to beat Protoss. I am really struggling with the MU and it seems that Protoss are getting better and better at defending the harassment and just sitting on 3 bases until they have 200/200 army with +3 attack +3 armour. Throw in the AOE like colosus, HT and archons and my army just melts. I know that I need to work on micro. Watching the replays I am often way ahead and just end up loosing. My army size can be 1K to 2K mienrals and gas bigger to no avail. Looking through the latest posts it would seem that a lot more terrans, like myself, are having problems with Protoss as compared to Protoss having problems with Terrans.
shivver
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
December 19 2011 11:30 GMT
#43
What KawaiiRice said, I learned nothing new here :/
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
December 19 2011 13:20 GMT
#44
On December 19 2011 19:37 FoxTheDream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 01:38 KawaiiRice wrote:
On December 19 2011 00:02 statikg wrote:
On December 18 2011 17:16 KawaiiRice wrote:
Noblesse was only really allowed to do all these drop antics because Bischu engaged at 14 minutes meaning he couldn't split his army efficiently during the drop period because his army was so small. ;;

if that engage hadn't happened the blink stalker count + zealots would have been too much for small drops to happen


Kawaii you are an excellent player but sometimes I feel that you are not aware of the skill gap between pros and even mid masters. I would say that by 3base timing a drop is quite likely to cause an overreaction of enough of the protoss army for long enough that the rest of your forces can snipe the 3rd all the way up to mid masters. When you post so negatively on a subject you really influence alot of people to say "oh well I won't even bother if a pro says its not good". But in fact, it is good for most people and its especially important that low level terrans start to work on these kind of tactics even if they will need to learn the details of how it works later on a bit differently. That comes with experience.

um... so i shouldnt post?
basic push n drop stuff is fine yea but all this dropping around and around in every base for 4 minutes is not standard by any means and that was what I was referring to by "drop antics"


From your perspective what is the best way a Terran should approach trying to beat Protoss. I am really struggling with the MU and it seems that Protoss are getting better and better at defending the harassment and just sitting on 3 bases until they have 200/200 army with +3 attack +3 armour. Throw in the AOE like colosus, HT and archons and my army just melts. I know that I need to work on micro. Watching the replays I am often way ahead and just end up loosing. My army size can be 1K to 2K mienrals and gas bigger to no avail. Looking through the latest posts it would seem that a lot more terrans, like myself, are having problems with Protoss as compared to Protoss having problems with Terrans.


I've heard day[9] talk about how the terran bioball has reasonable strength in small numbers while the protoss death-ball is much weaker until all the pieces get put together. KawaiiRice noted the initial engagement kept Protoss's unit count low. Noblesse forced that engagement to happen by poking at the Assimilator from the low ground, making the engagement happen in an open field, giving him lots of room to stutter-step. It's possible that TvP strategies need to revolve around midgame aggression/army-trades to keep the protoss from reaching the 200/200 deathball state.
There is no Cow Level
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-19 13:35:52
December 19 2011 13:34 GMT
#45
On December 19 2011 19:37 FoxTheDream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 01:38 KawaiiRice wrote:
On December 19 2011 00:02 statikg wrote:
On December 18 2011 17:16 KawaiiRice wrote:
Noblesse was only really allowed to do all these drop antics because Bischu engaged at 14 minutes meaning he couldn't split his army efficiently during the drop period because his army was so small. ;;

if that engage hadn't happened the blink stalker count + zealots would have been too much for small drops to happen


Kawaii you are an excellent player but sometimes I feel that you are not aware of the skill gap between pros and even mid masters. I would say that by 3base timing a drop is quite likely to cause an overreaction of enough of the protoss army for long enough that the rest of your forces can snipe the 3rd all the way up to mid masters. When you post so negatively on a subject you really influence alot of people to say "oh well I won't even bother if a pro says its not good". But in fact, it is good for most people and its especially important that low level terrans start to work on these kind of tactics even if they will need to learn the details of how it works later on a bit differently. That comes with experience.

um... so i shouldnt post?
basic push n drop stuff is fine yea but all this dropping around and around in every base for 4 minutes is not standard by any means and that was what I was referring to by "drop antics"


From your perspective what is the best way a Terran should approach trying to beat Protoss. I am really struggling with the MU and it seems that Protoss are getting better and better at defending the harassment and just sitting on 3 bases until they have 200/200 army with +3 attack +3 armour. Throw in the AOE like colosus, HT and archons and my army just melts. I know that I need to work on micro. Watching the replays I am often way ahead and just end up loosing. My army size can be 1K to 2K mienrals and gas bigger to no avail. Looking through the latest posts it would seem that a lot more terrans, like myself, are having problems with Protoss as compared to Protoss having problems with Terrans.

winning the big engage is the most important thing to shifting a TvP into your favor. If your micro is poor and you're in a 200 vs 200 situation then you're probably going to lose the engage, then lose to warpins.
you should try to set up an ideal battle where P is coming into you and you have good spread/are able to emp everything (cloak helps infinitely). If your army composition is off (not enough / too many vikings) that will make you lose as well. If you win the big engage and have a bank then you should win the game. Pretty tough micro wars. But extremely off topic from the OP ~~

@ Arcane
yea thats what it is oo
@KawaiiRiceLighT
awakenx
Profile Joined May 2011
United States341 Posts
December 21 2011 21:09 GMT
#46
Awesome, this thread just proved all the "chargelots OP nerf nerfnerf1!!11111oneone hueheuuehueh" threads wrong... very good analysis. I'll ditch TvP just for this :D. I never used drops when I played bio; I was too busy trying to land EMPs instead... hahahahaha but there's no way I'll do this as well as Noblesse xD
WorstMicroNA
hyunGGe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States108 Posts
December 21 2011 21:37 GMT
#47
this post is quite a gem. very good analysis. btw are there any replays, not just vods of the games?
Jugem-Jugem Shit-Tossing The Life Of Shin-chan's Two-Day-Old Underwear Balmung Fezalion Isaac Schneider 1/3True Love 2/3 Hangnail Anxiety Betrayal Knows My Name Or Does It Really Ignore Calls Squid Dogfish Halibut Trout-Cod Dogfish This Is a Different Dog
Recognizable
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Netherlands1552 Posts
December 21 2011 21:44 GMT
#48
Wow. This has helped me so much. Why did I never think of moving my marines to the back! Thanks man.
JBlaze187
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada37 Posts
December 21 2011 22:09 GMT
#49
Ya I watched this game live myself and was thoroughly impressed with the drop play going on. I'm glad OP took the time to highlight the exact pathing he took and how it enabled him to gain a significant advantage. Good read thanks.
Sp4cem4nSpiff
Profile Joined September 2011
United States46 Posts
December 22 2011 09:42 GMT
#50
Great Post!! Very Helpful TY
Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of Amateurs.
Nightshake
Profile Joined November 2010
France412 Posts
December 22 2011 21:45 GMT
#51
This is awesome, but agree with KawaiiRice.
alepoff
Profile Joined January 2012
140 Posts
January 27 2012 21:24 GMT
#52
Well this is nice and all, but noblesse is 10 times the player bischu is. Anyone can do whatever the hell he wants vs a player who's basically in a lower league and make it look strong :/
let's bounce
Nibbler89
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
884 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-27 23:48:42
January 27 2012 23:47 GMT
#53
On January 28 2012 06:24 alepoff wrote:
Well this is nice and all, but noblesse is 10 times the player bischu is. Anyone can do whatever the hell he wants vs a player who's basically in a lower league and make it look strong :/

Yup, when you have a 30 supply lead drops are obviously amazing because protoss can't split his army. When supplies are equal like they should be barring protoss making a huge error though, and drops can become a liability if blink is done especially if you don't have the multitask to keep your drops alive while keeping up on macro.

This is more of a good guide for explaining how to not lose to protoss once you gain a lead assuming you can keep up on macro while having the micro /multitask to do this type of drop play.
NoctemSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States771 Posts
January 28 2012 04:43 GMT
#54
This is situational but it's still really well put together.
You've explained multi pronged attacks and placement of units in a way that someone from any league could understand

That being said, I'll just leave this here.

[image loading]
http://www.twitch.tv/noctemsc <--Most epic fun times
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