EPT[D] Korean Meta ZvP Muta/Bling into Broodlord - Page 3
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
especailly if you stay up on upgrades for ground and air | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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apalemorning
Canada509 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On November 17 2011 16:32 apalemorning wrote: so, i have a question. vs toss ffe if you go quick third into mutas, how the hell do you not die to 5/6gate pushes? i find it quite hard to scout if hes 6gating me before lair or is lair timing quicker? does anyone have timings/build for ZvP mutas vs ffe? No, you stay on 2 bases until you get your mutas out. Otherwise get roaches first to defend and mutas in mid game. You don't have to rush to it. | ||
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 17 2011 16:48 tuho12345 wrote: No, you stay on 2 bases until you get your mutas out. Otherwise get roaches first to defend and mutas in mid game. You don't have to rush to it. if you go 2base mutalisks, you need a ton of spines and therefore you are economically behind and if the mutalisks don't do a ton of damage initially in a 2base vs 2base situation you lose. The trick is to go 3base mutalisks, defend whatever Protoss throws at you and then proceed from the huge advantage you now have into mutalisk containing him. Basically you do something like: -) pool first opening (14/14 speedling expand, 14pool/15-16hatch, 11p/18h... whatever you think is appropriate) -) take mapcontrol and try to deny scouting (zergling in front of his base, scout/patrol locations where he is likely to hide a probe, make your desired 3rd base spot scoutfree) -) take a third ~4:30 - 5:00 (~26supply) (watch his front and gases... If he doesn't have some sentries and doesn't research anything from the forge, stargate or dts are extremly likely, especially if he had 2-3 early gases) -) evolution chamber between 6:00-7:00, one spore per base, 3-4queens, connect bases asap! (initial creep tumor instead of initial inject at bases 2 & 3) -) retake gas and start a lair and a roach warren ~8-9mins, +1 on the upgrade of your choice, take 3-4gases -) your composition should be roach/ling now and should be able to deal with any form of ground play he can throw at you from 2base at this time; against air you want hydralisks instead of roaches -) start your spire and your 5th and 6th gas right after you defended his attack and if he didn't go double stargate; double stargate should simply die to a big hydralisk attack (while you research drops and deny a third from him) -) start toying with him (he is so far behind that even if he goes "perfect" antimutalisk composition of 3base, you should simply be able to contain him so hard that he will never be able to catch up to you) -) if he refuses to die or basetrade with you, proceed to broodlord and baneling tech, once you start to get high in supply (~180supply). Those 2 should be able to bust down walls/bases and straight up kill his army, when he doesn't want to come out and play | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
Just my 2Cents for all you Zergs who happily run alle the Banes into toss only to lose your BRoods right after that. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
What do toss players like to do vs BL? Sometimes they will blink under your BL's and snipe one at a time.  What is the answer? Just have your banelings chill and have a picnic under the shade of your BroodLords.  I can't tell you how many times I am setting up my baneling trap and stalkers stupidly blink under my Bl's just to be turned into a sea of green gooyness. :D :D :D | ||
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Thesper
United Kingdom37 Posts
On November 18 2011 00:22 EndOfLine wrote: ^ Banes also serve another purpose. What do toss players like to do vs BL? Sometimes they will blink under your BL's and snipe one at a time. What is the answer? Just have your banelings chill and have a picnic under the shade of your BroodLords. I can't tell you how many times I am setting up my baneling trap and stalkers stupidly blink under my Bl's just to be turned into a sea of green gooyness. :D :D :D What do you do if he blinks in 1 at a time? | ||
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massivez
Belgium653 Posts
But question, why ling bling with this? Once i got a pretty big flock i mix it up with roaches/ hydra's. Or does this shit don't work at masters? | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 18 2011 00:38 Thesper wrote: What do you do if he blinks in 1 at a time? Well if he does it that slowly, then your BLs have time to kill the stalkers. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On November 18 2011 00:38 Thesper wrote: What do you do if he blinks in 1 at a time? 1 at a time when broodlords are ever increasing broodlings everywhere star ship troopers style??? I feel like time is against the protoss in this senario. Especially if the zerg has been keeping up on his injects and is rallying more army to the fight. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On November 18 2011 00:43 massivez wrote: Damn, recently i tried muta play. And its awesome (diamond league though) the hard part though is getting a safe transition into it, but once you got like 8, you can rly dictate the game. And most people havent adapted yet against this play. Also i feel it rly rewards people with good multitasking. But question, why ling bling with this? Once i got a pretty big flock i mix it up with roaches/ hydra's. Or does this shit don't work at masters? The idea of lings/blings is, Lings are pure min. So more gas for mutas, But zergs have been using roach/muta too. Most strats can work if you spend the time refining them for the many different senariors you will find at your lvl and higher lvls. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
This is, of course, assuming your ground carapace is already even with the Protoss's ground attack and that you're on hive tech with Adrenal glands. (Muta/ling attempts to get high speed melee and carapace upgrades, right?) Zerglings with Adrenal fight evenly or better than zealots in nearly every situation, no? In my opinion, getting more than 30 or so mutalisks is an undue risk, why not protect your murder of mutas and am up your ability to be aggressive on the ground or even in straight up fights? As a crappy Protoss player I can't help but wonder at why Muta -> Broodlord is preferred over Muta -> Ultra. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On November 18 2011 01:01 ShatterZer0 wrote: Hmm... if Mutas discourage robo tech and Ultralisk's main counter is the Immortal, a robo unit, then why wouldn't Muta/ling -> Muta/Ultra/ling work wonders? This is, of course, assuming your ground carapace is already even with the Protoss's ground attack and that you're on hive tech with Adrenal glands. (Muta/ling attempts to get high speed melee and carapace upgrades, right?) Zerglings with Adrenal fight evenly or better than zealots in nearly every situation, no? In my opinion, getting more than 30 or so mutalisks is an undue risk, why not protect your murder of mutas and am up your ability to be aggressive on the ground or even in straight up fights? As a crappy Protoss player I can't help but wonder at why Muta -> Broodlord is preferred over Muta -> Ultra. Your theory can work. And I personally love making utras just for that "grrrrrrrrr" noise that they make when they form. So I haved played around with the strat you suggested, and, I can work. (Actually its something I have been seeing in zvz) However by having so many mutas you can protect your BL's from any Void ray shinanigans, Banes/lings for the stalkers. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On November 16 2011 17:05 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: o.o I'm confused as to why he got banned, I don't really see the misbehavior like what you are describing? Other than he states his opinion(s) frankly. I wouldn't say that's narrow minded. If you're arguing something, you can be as aggressive about your opinion as you want as long as you're not disrespecting others (since there's no flame/BM on TL etc.) if someone can clear it up for me then thanks Belial88 was just temp banned for 30 days by Plexa. That account was created on 2010-11-07 17:13:15 and had 1852 posts. Reason: We're getting pretty annoyed with how you post on these forums. If there isn't any improvement next ban is a perm. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A justified ban in my opinion. To the OP: I think that Muta-ling is much more cost efficient and less risk averse. With Storms / Archons / Blink stalkers, you constantly risk extremely cost-ineffective engagements if the Protoss micros well. Broodlord transitions are not terrible, but I do agree you with that Ultra play would make more sense. The Protoss probably won't be making anything from the Robo except observers while you are on Muta, and he would have to be a genius to somehow predict the Ultra switch you are going to make. Fighting Archons with Ultras is not ideal, but Storms and Blink stalkers are two things that Ultras do very very well against. | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
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BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
But if they manage to take a 4th on a large enough map ultras work very well when there are no immortals or archons around, they also work better as a reinforcing unit to kill the enemy once you have battered down the first wave of units cost effectively with broodlords. With the muta ling roach strat I often win before hive tech but in situations it does get further its because of really defensive unit placement and large numbers of cannons which broodlords are better at dealing with than ultras. That is probably the most clear reason to use them as your t3 of choice. I'm still experimenting with ways to get the broodlord transition without making it terribly obvious though, its kind of difficult, right now I like poaching a few spores out in random spots to snipe observers and make a ton of spines while freeing up food by doing ling run bys so my muta harass never has to take a real break while getting enough broods, in the end it ends up being 8-12 broodlords + 5-7 infestors + all the mutas that haven't died and a handful of lings because you are basically supply capped at this point on high tech units. I still have some trouble using this composition vs large numbers of collosus and correctly controlled blink stalkers, they can go for all kinds of counters pulling the broodlords back, especially on maps like shattered temple, because both units go up and down cliffs, in straight engages collosus kill broodlings really fast so stalkers can pick off most of the broodlords without taking too heavy of losses if they managed to get on equal bases, thats why I like the ultra transition vs robo. Anyways this was a book so anyone who read it should have a good day. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On November 18 2011 01:26 Fishgle wrote: Also, consider upgrades. You are getting both flier and ground melee upgrades, both of which help your Broodlords. And 3/3 Broodlords with 3/3 Broodlings are much scarier than 3/5 Ultras. This is true. HOWEVER Unless you are getting Mass air upgrades as well, which takes 50% of your entire life to achieve, your BL themselves will have very small amount of upgrades. | ||
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