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Drops are effective harass used by mainly Terran players, but can also be used by Zerg and Protoss players. It requires a transport and units inside of it.
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Multiprong drops are where a player drops 2 or more locations at the same time. For Terrans, it requires 2+ medivacs, zergs use 2+ overlords, and protoss can use 2 warp prisms, but can drop one place, move and warp in at another.
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Effect of drops
Physical - drops often are meant to kill something, workers, buildings, tech, supply, even a base if there are enough units dropped. Drops are usually inexpensive investments meant to be cost effective, otherwise, the drop was probably a waste of time and says to the droppee "Hey, some of my army is out of position, if you kill it, I'll be weaker, if you don't, my army is weaker than what it could be"
Psychological - drops can be used to force the droppee to waste minerals on static defense, camp units in the mineral line, and just scare the droppee into not moving out for fear of losing the base. The first effect is a small victory, slightly larger if the droppee is a zerg (because that's a drone + minerals). The second effect forces a smaller main army and might make the difference in a major game changing battle. If equally upgraded armies with equal amount of counters to the other (Example: Colossus + Gateway vs. MMM, not 10 stalkers vs. 10 marauders) engage at equal positioning and both are not micro'd, then the larger supply army should come out on top. Equal positioning is where nobody has an unfair high ground advantage, not engaging at a choke point, etc. Optimal equal positioning is in an open area, for example, the middle of Shattered Temple. So, this being said, if the droppee cuts some of their army to leave at each mineral line, then they are reducing their main army size and increasing their chance of losing the major battle between armies.
Now, multiprong drops do both on a much larger scale, they are meant to kill more in the same time period, they force more units to be left behind, they instill a bigger fear in the droppee because multiple bases could be lost, and more static defenses will be needed.
Ok, enough about what drops are and what they do and onto the discussion part
Is there ever a time when not to drop (skip the obvious of "when they attack your base with their army)?
What is the easiest way of managing multiprong drops in terms of doing the drop?
Also, what about defending the drop?
Where is it best to drop? In the mineral line or out of their sight then run the units into the mineral line?
All of these questions are open for interpretation and race does not matter.
This spoiler is for the mods and will serve no purpose to you if you are not a mod. If you are going to say "Forum guidelines" and nothing else that contributes to the discussion, then this spoiler is for you too.
+ Show Spoiler +Mods, I know this could go under "Simple Questions and Simple Answers", and you probably want me to ask this there. The only problem with that is the "SQaSA" thread is about 450 pages long and looking for the answer in there before posting the question would be very time consuming whereas posting a new thread would be simpler. I have no problem if you do close the thread, I am just stating my point for why I didn't ask this in SQaSA
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As far as drops go, I almost never use them until late game (I'm zerg btw).
Even then, I usually don't try to drop the main if I'm doing a multi-drop, as 8-16 lings can easily be cleaned up by whatever is coming off of the production line in the main. Thus, it doesn't do much damage. If I drop the main, I usually tend to do more of a doom-drop style, with at least 5 or 6 OL's filled with lings/roaches. But that is kind of straying away from the topic of multi-drops...
I find it most effective to drop 3rd or 4th bases that are on opposite sides of the map, as it really spreads the enemy thin, and tests their crisis management. (Try not to drop a terran base that has a PF though =) ). Sacrificing 16 or 24 lings shouldn't hurt your late-game army too much, and even if they don't trade cost efficiently, the psychological stress it gives your opponent is almost always worth it.
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Ask it there anyways.
1. Is there a time when not to drop?
Whenever you see fast (meaning speed wise; if they can catch your ship) AA near or when they are pressuring you in a position you can't defend.
2. What is the easiest way of managing multiprong drops in terms of doing the drop?
Create 2 control groups and only check on them when they are under attack. *easy; not very effective*
Watch them when they go in, and drop each. Target fire key objectives for each drop. check on them when under attack. *a little more effective, but also more micro intensive*
3. Defending the drop?
Split your forces, or if you suspect a multiprong drop, static defences. Pull workers from both; delayed mining is bad but losing workers is both. As a protoss, you can warp in at one place and send your army to the other place.
4. Where is it best to drop?
It is best to drop in the mineral line, because generally when you have enough money to do multiprong drops, the issue for the other team is getting there. (they are generally controlling a key place because they need to protect multiple bases at the front) Also even with good reaction times, it delays mining.
I answered all of your questions in about two sentences each. Seems simple, no? I understand not wanting to look through 450 odd pages. You don't really have to. Just check the past 10-20 pages before posting a question. I feel that most people think that doing this is reasonable.
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I'm a zerg player and I upgrade ventral sacs relatively quickly after lair in both ZvP and ZvT. The amount of control and flexibility it gives you is just insanely good.
The idea is to threaten him in multiple locations to cause him to spread out to the point where you can damage him in at least one of those locations. Posturing towards their 3rd base with a big army while flying a drop into their main and preparing for a ling runby into the natural is not difficult, and you don't need to overcommit to any of those 3 fronts if he has set up ample defence, just commit to the ones where he is vulnerable, forcing him to move some of his army around, giving you another opportunity to hit somewhere else.
Usually though, you can take out their 3rd base while doing severe damage in their main at the same time.
I love drops in ZvZ as well, and used to play with them a lot, but I've been struggling to find a way to make it work lately.
Drops are still amazing, but it's too easy to die or fall behind.
If they are bad at responding to drops, I just kill them. If they are good at responding to drops I start sending in frequent empty drops while trying to set up a concentrated attack.
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I have been meaning to get back to the playstyle that Oboeman talks about. It is very effective for zerg especially with upgrades. It goes along with thoughts following Stephano's win about mass upgrading and being hyper aggressive in tier 2. What you can do is split their attention to multiple fronts and trade effectively/slash opponent economy while massing your economy behind it.
You have to watch out for the snap attack call, because you have to engage far from your base, keep up your injects, and wear it down thousand cuts style.
I don't have the ability to make it work... but it'd be exciting to see.
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How do you manage multiprong drops in the late game when you have an army compositions comprised of different units (including casters)? Given that multiprong drops are more effective the more spread out your opponent is I assume that they become more effective as the game goes on as your opponent takes more bases.
I'm a Terran player so I'll give an example from my perspective:
Late Game TvP MMMVG
I have MMM on 2 (Even though this is not 100% effective medivacs idle time during kiting)
I have Ghosts on 1 to initiate with EMP
I have Vikings on 3 to target fire Colo and Land when applicable
There are my 3 army hotkeys all used up. How can I control 1-2 or even 3 medivacs effectively? Do I need 5-6 army control groups? If so are there any suggestions for hotkeys to use for these extra control groups as I find 8-0 are horrible to control.
I always wonder when I see Korean Pros in the GSL manage their main army and 2+ multi prong drops at the same time.
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Honestly, I take my drop groups off hotkeys and work with minimap and boxing since it's a smaller group of units I keep my main army hotkeyed as usual (1-4)
I have been meaning to get back to the playstyle that Oboeman talks about. It is very effective for zerg especially with upgrades. It goes along with thoughts following Stephano's win about mass upgrading and being hyper aggressive in tier 2. What you can do is split their attention to multiple fronts and trade effectively/slash opponent economy while massing your economy behind it.
You have to watch out for the snap attack call, because you have to engage far from your base, keep up your injects, and wear it down thousand cuts style.
I don't have the ability to make it work... but it'd be exciting to see.
Honestly, it's not that difficult. Most players below low masters (where I am now) completely CHOKE as soon as you hit them in two locations simultaneously, and I hardly even need to micromanage my drop. Half the time I just let it run rampant and do whatever it wants, but occasionally check to make sure it's not being utterly retarded and trying to attack one marine who is standing between 2 barracks. At higher levels, I expect people manage the drops better, but I also expect that the aggressors can control their drops better as well and hit in additional locations.
My drops aren't even intended to kill, just force him to reposition his army so I can choose an engagement at a good location, or catch him out of position, and maybe snipe an expansion. About half of the time, he handles my primary attack with moderate success and loses his entire main base. Another quarter of the time, he chases my drop out with minimal damage but loses an expansion and most of his army to my primary attack.
seriously, you'd be amazed at how poorly people respond to drops. This SHOULD be a standard for zerg if our opponents are this bad at defending it.
I can play poorly, take expansions late, float money, fall behind in supply. And then I do a drop while threatening a frontal attack, my opponent doesn't know how to respond and I immediately win the game (or deal crippling damage). It's funny, and almost sad.
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If equally upgraded armies with equal amount of counters to the other (Example: Colossus + Gateway vs. MMM, not 10 stalkers vs. 10 marauders) engage at equal positioning and both are not micro'd, then the larger supply army should come out on top.
Where did you get this?
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I've found that the best Protoss "multipronged" drop is to just use one Warp Prism with the speed upgrade. Doesn't chew up supply, and does a lot of damage. Later on, sure, stick a couple of Prisms across the map, but earlier on you really can't dedicate the supply and Robo time to a second Prism.
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From a Zerg players perspective.
Is there ever a time when not to drop (skip the obvious of "when they attack your base with their army)?
Literally when they are on 2 bases (obviously). Also when you know the player is keen on drop defense, and has good management when it comes with multi-pronged attacks. In this situation, its a player you've already practiced/played with, and is something that shouldn't be normally done.
What is the easiest way of managing multiprong drops in terms of doing the drop?
Shift-qeueing is probably the best way to manage multi-prong drops. Shift-qeueu your overlord on to a specific portion of their base and while still holding down shift, then drop all. Afterwards, if you want to manage the individual drops, its best to click on the minimap to issue commands.
Also, what about defending the drop?
When I was watching a Day9 daily [the nestea one], Sean mentions that as you expand or move further out of the map, buffer your bases with static defences. It's true because during midgame, there are windows where there are lots of minerals to be spent and what better use than to secure safety at the main and/or expansions. Furthermore, let's say for example the hatchery that is being focused on is being attacked and units are being built at that hatchery, just change the rally point to the place where the drop is and voila, instant drop defence.
Where is it best to drop? In the mineral line or out of their sight then run the units into the mineral line?
Its best to probably just do it right at the mineral line. Precious time is spent just avoiding things in general when you can be killing workers/tech structures.
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On November 09 2011 17:27 mizU wrote:
If equally upgraded armies with equal amount of counters to the other (Example: Colossus + Gateway vs. MMM, not 10 stalkers vs. 10 marauders) engage at equal positioning and both are not micro'd, then the larger supply army should come out on top.
Where did you get this?
Agreed, its utter nonsense.
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On November 09 2011 13:08 Vies wrote:
How do you manage multiprong drops in the late game when you have an army compositions comprised of different units (including casters)? Given that multiprong drops are more effective the more spread out your opponent is I assume that they become more effective as the game goes on as your opponent takes more bases.
I'm a Terran player so I'll give an example from my perspective:
Late Game TvP MMMVG
I have MMM on 2 (Even though this is not 100% effective medivacs idle time during kiting)
I have Ghosts on 1 to initiate with EMP
I have Vikings on 3 to target fire Colo and Land when applicable
There are my 3 army hotkeys all used up. How can I control 1-2 or even 3 medivacs effectively? Do I need 5-6 army control groups? If so are there any suggestions for hotkeys to use for these extra control groups as I find 8-0 are horrible to control.
I always wonder when I see Korean Pros in the GSL manage their main army and 2+ multi prong drops at the same time.
I am a terran player aswell, and since Terran doesnt use the Q and W i have rehotkeyed these 2 buttons to control groups 9 and 0.
This way i can use 1, 2,3 for my main army/spellcasters/vikings (or whatever) and i use Q,W for drops/reapers/hellions.
I hope this might help you!
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On November 09 2011 22:09 DMTsyncope wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 13:08 Vies wrote:
How do you manage multiprong drops in the late game when you have an army compositions comprised of different units (including casters)? Given that multiprong drops are more effective the more spread out your opponent is I assume that they become more effective as the game goes on as your opponent takes more bases.
I'm a Terran player so I'll give an example from my perspective:
Late Game TvP MMMVG
I have MMM on 2 (Even though this is not 100% effective medivacs idle time during kiting)
I have Ghosts on 1 to initiate with EMP
I have Vikings on 3 to target fire Colo and Land when applicable
There are my 3 army hotkeys all used up. How can I control 1-2 or even 3 medivacs effectively? Do I need 5-6 army control groups? If so are there any suggestions for hotkeys to use for these extra control groups as I find 8-0 are horrible to control.
I always wonder when I see Korean Pros in the GSL manage their main army and 2+ multi prong drops at the same time.
I am a terran player aswell, and since Terran doesnt use the Q and W i have rehotkeyed these 2 buttons to control groups 9 and 0. This way i can use 1, 2,3 for my main army/spellcasters/vikings (or whatever) and i use Q,W for drops/reapers/hellions. I hope this might help you!
Yes! This is what I have been looking for.. I will try this out certainly thank you!
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I am a terran player aswell, and since Terran doesnt use the Q and W i have rehotkeyed these 2 buttons to control groups 9 and 0.
This way i can use 1, 2,3 for my main army/spellcasters/vikings (or whatever) and i use Q,W for drops/reapers/hellions.
I hope this might help you!
I was blind before, but now I see! I dont know why it didnt occur to me that Terran dont use Q and W. Thank you!
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I don't know why everyone is suggesting that you drop in the mineral line, that's kind of silly, as it gives the opponent so much more time to react. It's much better to drop out of sight and then stim in. If they didn't see it they're not going to have nearly as much time to react before stuff gets dead.
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Plat Terran for reference.
Is there ever a time when not to drop (skip the obvious of "when they attack your base with their army)?
It might be along the lines of "when they attack your base with their army," but in more of a cause-effect manner; when the opponent has vision of your army. I know it sounds obvious, but in the lower levels of TvP, Terrans may commit a lot to drops while an observer is right on top of their army. This prompts the Protoss to attack, one obvious reason being their superior army advantage. Additionally, the drops won't be in the Protoss base right away, meaning he can attack right there, do damage, then warp in back at home to defend. Same with Zerg and their changelings. It's always wise to have some form of detection around the base or pay attention, to get rid of vision before even initiating a drop.
Otherwise, always drop unless the base scanned happens to have a load of defenses.
What is the easiest way of managing multiprong drops in terms of doing the drop?
Gauge distances via minimap, shift-queue so they drop at the timings I prefer. Then, watch the minimap to see if the drops are detected by the opponent while on their way to his bases. If that's the case and I'm up against Zerg, I have the option to intentionally draw his attention there (drop marines and start shooting the overlord that saw the drop) then proceed to succeed with the other drop, since he will move to the direction of the first drop to deny it, opening up vulnerabilities in his other bases. Against Protoss, they can't do much from seeing a drop on its way unless they have air units, so I don't worry too much. Even if spotted, drop in his base to force warp-ins then run, which increases the damage the other drop will do if his army is out of position.
Scan before the drop hits, either if the drop is in the early game or if I decide to commit 2+ medivacs in one base as part of the multiprong drop.
Also, what about defending the drop?
Having as much vision as possible for Zerg, I guess. Well-upgraded marines with good position are difficult to stop if they're allowed to unload from the medivacs, so it's just better to be aware of the drop by having vision of possible drop routes to begin with. Infestors can buy time too. For Protoss, high templars if they can spare leaving one in the vulnerable bases. Otherwise, a lot of gateways and not warping in overkill amounts of units on a single drop, since that leaves you vulnerable until the next round of warp-ins.
Where is it best to drop? In the mineral line or out of their sight then run the units into the mineral line?
TvZ? In the mineral line provided they don't have spores. Less surface area for lings to attack, so marines become incredibly cost-effective. Stim and running in between the mineral lines work too, but quick units and quick reactions from the opponent means this will not always succeed. Sometimes you just want to drop between badly placed buildings to have the marines untouchable and aim for tech as opposed to workers anyway, especially in the early game, like sniping a morphing spire. Drop out of sight and run in if the base has no static defense though, it'll guarantee a lot more drone kills. In TvP, always out of sight if possible since attacking with the first marine that drops will obviously cause warp-ins. Get all the way in their mineral line before getting a shot off for maximum worker damage if they were not paying attention to the minimap. Very effective on new expansions with only a single pylon, since you can take the pylon out before anything warps in.
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EPT
