EPT[G] Grandmaster by 6pooling, how to - Page 36
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stelzer
11 Posts
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zqmbfg
17 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Bad_Habit has great micro, and did the best 6 pool I've ever seen. There's a complete difference between a GM, and a Masters 6 pool. I'd also say that I've never seen a diamond do a 6 pool correctly. Truly the best 6 pooler around. But I beat his build with hatch first, as seen here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586 | ||
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Arayon
73 Posts
Now i aint still sure if trying to ameliorate my skill is the right way to play. ^^ Nice thread :D | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On December 30 2011 11:21 Sonder wrote: How could he be stream cheating with 7 pool? its not like he can react to what the hell ret does...? You can react to spawn locations pretty easily. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45321 Posts
On December 30 2011 11:00 JojoE wrote: Just watched a game of you against Ret on stream. I now see that your guide does not include a How to for stream cheating and BM? Might want to put that in there. I don't think you realize how early the decision to 6pool or 7pool is made lol. | ||
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Linoge
Hungary115 Posts
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Mutown
United States13 Posts
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furyofSkanks
32 Posts
I'm only asking because I put so much work in following in Bad_Habit's footsteps. How do you deal with an enemy zerg 10 pool. How do you react to a 10 pool Bad_Habit can you post a replay? I run into a lot of zerg 10 pools and I get crushed by it always. What's the best way to react to this? You must have come up with some type of strategy for this to help keep you in the game right? And give some advice?? on what's best in this situation ZvsZ? Thanks. Also when playing against random do you have any tips? I sort of adopted the build but random is scariest to play against I find. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On February 23 2012 00:12 Mutown wrote: 6-pool is definitely broken. I opened forge first on Shakuras and scouted after the first pylon. I found my opponent last and saw his last zerglings on the way. I reacted instantly by making a pylon in my main base but even the pylon didn't finish before many zerglings got there. I did try to get a cannon up anyway, but it was too late and simply impossible to hold at that point. If I scout my opponent last and open forge first, Zerg is guranteed a win when 6-pooling. This takes away both the skill and fun from the game. It seems extremely stupid. if you 9 scout as protoss is no way zerg can bea you with 6 pool when you 12-13 forge . dont make up things saying " when i first scouted zerlings were alredy out" . post a replay if you think is so op . | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On March 11 2012 00:25 xsnac wrote: if you 9 scout as protoss is no way zerg can bea you with 6 pool when you 12-13 forge . dont make up things saying " when i first scouted zerlings were alredy out" . post a replay if you think is so op . edit; This is correct. On Tal Darim Altar PvZ a 6 or 7 pool will hit the protoss base before you can scout it/react, but this is assuming you went nexus first (in your FFE). And only if you scout the zerg main last. You don't remotely lose outright, but you will likely lose probes. It is very likely that lings will be out before you scout the zerg main (scouting last) but you can still react in time if your timings were fluid. No replay required, this is discussed in mostly every FFE thread. Probe control and poor timing is why one loses, but saying there's no way a toss can lose in incorrect. Nexus before forge is optimal if you believe you can hold it, usually it's not worth the risk. | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
On February 23 2012 00:12 Mutown wrote: 6-pool is definitely broken. I opened forge first on Shakuras and scouted after the first pylon. I found my opponent last and saw his last zerglings on the way. I reacted instantly by making a pylon in my main base but even the pylon didn't finish before many zerglings got there. I did try to get a cannon up anyway, but it was too late and simply impossible to hold at that point. If I scout my opponent last and open forge first, Zerg is guranteed a win when 6-pooling. This takes away both the skill and fun from the game. It seems extremely stupid. ehm... there is only 2 starting positions on shakuras... with a 9 scout, you can easily react by walling off with 3 big buildings (forge gate gate) and a cannon behind it in time with ~14-15 probes. | ||
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itsNero
Canada30 Posts
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
This guide does not prove that you can get to GM by 6 pooling. It proves that you can get to GM with any build if you are a GM level player. For example, MC could get to GM with 4 gate or cannon rushes easily. The average player, could not. I know it would come as a surprise, but a 6 pool executed by a GM is like a completely different build compared to a 6 pool executed by a masters (much less a diamond, or bronze). I've never seen a diamond do a 6 pool competently, on the flip side, I've never seen someone pull off a 6 pool as well as BH. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586 Here's a guide I wrote on the subject, and replays where I actually beat BH with hatch first. | ||
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
On March 11 2012 18:41 Belial88 wrote: ^ The OP is actually GM level material. He's really fucking good. This guide does not prove that you can get to GM by 6 pooling. It proves that you can get to GM with any build if you are a GM level player. For example, MC could get to GM with 4 gate or cannon rushes easily. The average player, could not. I know it would come as a surprise, but a 6 pool executed by a GM is like a completely different build compared to a 6 pool executed by a masters (much less a diamond, or bronze). I've never seen a diamond do a 6 pool competently, on the flip side, I've never seen someone pull off a 6 pool as well as BH. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295586 Here's a guide I wrote on the subject, and replays where I actually beat BH with hatch first. You don't have to be of MC's caliber to 4-gate or canon-rush into GM, players such as Deezer and CombatEx could easily do that while BM'ing like there is no tmrw just like this guy Bad-Habit. He clearly enjoys BM a lot and players like this guy, deezer and some other dudes out there are a thorn in this gaming community. This guy is without doubt a low masters players, and would not be able to have an above 50% win ratio without 6-pooling or drone rushing. I could very well imagine that even by doing those strats he could have a below 50% win ratio. | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On November 09 2011 01:37 Bad_Habit wrote: before you flame, an admin told me to repost it after i add some information about the strats because the old thread had already to much hate in it. just leave the hate of this and go to my blog. feel free to flame there, i sure do care. Er, no, I won't leave the hate in your blog since I don't hate you. I don't hate the strats, even. I hate this thread in the Strategy forum. Not really for any reason other than it totally fails to get its own actual point, though flaming and trolling avilo, then claiming he flamed you and having the gall to post it in your thread was fucking classy too. Look, you write an entire, in-depth thread and yet don't actually mention what it is your style is exploiting. Maybe you don't even know? Hint: It's the metagame. Period. Not your sick ability to 'win with 6 pools' as you claim. Look, there's nothing better than the sanity check of a cheese explosion to reset everyone's expectations and prevent extreme greed becoming the norm, killing off the use of vulnerable openings by shattering their illusion of stability. In fact I actively encourage my zerg playing friends to cheese more in masters, because protoss are doing some hella stupid greed openings (like nexus first) that deserve to get punished. And a guide explaining how best to execute such cheese at a high level of play is a good idea for a thread. A guide explaining Catz' 4-drone harass (yes, he invented it, so much for "my 4 drone harass") in the modern map pool would be a great thread. This isn't that thread. By leaving the metagame fact out of your post, and in fact by not making it your main point, you indirectly imply that 6-pooling is stable as a style, which it isn't. If terran religiously walls-in or scouts early, you lose. No ifs, no buts, no micro or tricks will get you out of it, despite your 500 word ZvT sub-guide. You are fucking *dead* if he plays standard. Which I do in 90% of my games. If protoss opens anything but FE, you are dead unless he fucks up. Ok in ZvZ you can open cheese stably, but if a zerg knows how to micro, you are behind. The ball is out of your court and in the hands of lady luck once you put the pool down. But since zergs know this, they don't 6 pool often. Since players at higher levels know that zergs know this, they stop walling off and cut corners on scouting. And you can and should punish the shit out of them by 6-pooling their asses back to solid play. But don't do that and claim it's your amazing micro skills that let you 'win' with such a style. Especially putting it on the TL strat forum instead of a blog is just going to make 1000 frustrated lower level players cheese twenty times without the ability to execute your micro, get worse, and reduce the overall quality of play in Starcraft across the board. I'm sorry, this thread is fucking retarded, and so is whichever mod approved you reposting it. Even more retarded is every single mod that saw this thread get necroed and didn't lock it instantly. EDIT: And you are a graceless jerk. The Avilo BM is not something a normal person would post with pride. BMing Catz like that was a dick-move. BMing Hero was a dick-move. Posting the WhiteRa video, catching him with a brainfart moment, no matter how much of a classy guy he is that he said he didn't mind, was a dick-move. | ||
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Ntwadumela
United States65 Posts
On March 11 2012 22:59 DaemonX wrote: Er, no, I won't leave the hate in your blog since I don't hate you. I don't hate the strats, even. I hate this thread in the Strategy forum. Not really for any reason other than it totally fails to get its own actual point, though flaming and trolling avilo, then claiming he flamed you and having the gall to post it in your thread was fucking classy too. Look, you write an entire, in-depth thread and yet don't actually mention what it is your style is exploiting. Maybe you don't even know? Hint: It's the metagame. Period. Not your sick ability to 'win with 6 pools' as you claim. Look, there's nothing better than the sanity check of a cheese explosion to reset everyone's expectations and prevent extreme greed becoming the norm, killing off the use of vulnerable openings by shattering their illusion of stability. In fact I actively encourage my zerg playing friends to cheese more in masters, because protoss are doing some hella stupid greed openings (like nexus first) that deserve to get punished. And a guide explaining how best to execute such cheese at a high level of play is a good idea for a thread. A guide explaining Catz' 4-drone harass (yes, he invented it, so much for "my 4 drone harass") in the modern map pool would be a great thread. This isn't that thread. By leaving the metagame fact out of your post, and in fact by not making it your main point, you indirectly imply that 6-pooling is stable as a style, which it isn't. If terran religiously walls-in or scouts early, you lose. No ifs, no buts, no micro or tricks will get you out of it, despite your 500 word ZvT sub-guide. You are fucking *dead* if he plays standard. Which I do in 90% of my games. If protoss opens anything but FE, you are dead unless he fucks up. Ok in ZvZ you can open cheese stably, but if a zerg knows how to micro, you are behind. The ball is out of your court and in the hands of lady luck once you put the pool down. But since zergs know this, they don't 6 pool often. Since players at higher levels know that zergs know this, they stop walling off and cut corners on scouting. And you can and should punish the shit out of them by 6-pooling their asses back to solid play. But don't do that and claim it's your amazing micro skills that let you 'win' with such a style. Especially putting it on the TL strat forum instead of a blog is just going to make 1000 frustrated lower level players cheese twenty times without the ability to execute your micro, get worse, and reduce the overall quality of play in Starcraft across the board. I'm sorry, this thread is fucking retarded, and so is whichever mod approved you reposting it. Even more retarded is every single mod that saw this thread get necroed and didn't lock it instantly. EDIT: And you are a graceless jerk. The Avilo BM is not something a normal person would post with pride. BMing Catz like that was a dick-move. BMing Hero was a dick-move. Posting the WhiteRa video, catching him with a brainfart moment, no matter how much of a classy guy he is that he said he didn't mind, was a dick-move. Good post. I commend the ability to get in GM with a 6 pool, period. However, this isn't a viable option for most people. I'm a diamond zerg on the cusp of masters. I can tell you this isn't a viable strategy for me at all. As the OP pointed out, its very unforgiving and one wrong move here or there and you're out of the game completely. I tend to agree with the poster above me that this probably has a lot to do with the meta game, which I think will work against you (personally) eventually. With all that said, I appreciate the detailed write-up and its going to help me in the case I decide to 6 pool in a few games. | ||
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On March 11 2012 22:59 DaemonX wrote: Er, no, I won't leave the hate in your blog since I don't hate you. I don't hate the strats, even. I hate this thread in the Strategy forum. Not really for any reason other than it totally fails to get its own actual point, though flaming and trolling avilo, then claiming he flamed you and having the gall to post it in your thread was fucking classy too. Look, you write an entire, in-depth thread and yet don't actually mention what it is your style is exploiting. Maybe you don't even know? Hint: It's the metagame. Period. Not your sick ability to 'win with 6 pools' as you claim. Look, there's nothing better than the sanity check of a cheese explosion to reset everyone's expectations and prevent extreme greed becoming the norm, killing off the use of vulnerable openings by shattering their illusion of stability. In fact I actively encourage my zerg playing friends to cheese more in masters, because protoss are doing some hella stupid greed openings (like nexus first) that deserve to get punished. And a guide explaining how best to execute such cheese at a high level of play is a good idea for a thread. A guide explaining Catz' 4-drone harass (yes, he invented it, so much for "my 4 drone harass") in the modern map pool would be a great thread. This isn't that thread. By leaving the metagame fact out of your post, and in fact by not making it your main point, you indirectly imply that 6-pooling is stable as a style, which it isn't. If terran religiously walls-in or scouts early, you lose. No ifs, no buts, no micro or tricks will get you out of it, despite your 500 word ZvT sub-guide. You are fucking *dead* if he plays standard. Which I do in 90% of my games. If protoss opens anything but FE, you are dead unless he fucks up. Ok in ZvZ you can open cheese stably, but if a zerg knows how to micro, you are behind. The ball is out of your court and in the hands of lady luck once you put the pool down. But since zergs know this, they don't 6 pool often. Since players at higher levels know that zergs know this, they stop walling off and cut corners on scouting. And you can and should punish the shit out of them by 6-pooling their asses back to solid play. But don't do that and claim it's your amazing micro skills that let you 'win' with such a style. Especially putting it on the TL strat forum instead of a blog is just going to make 1000 frustrated lower level players cheese twenty times without the ability to execute your micro, get worse, and reduce the overall quality of play in Starcraft across the board. I'm sorry, this thread is fucking retarded, and so is whichever mod approved you reposting it. Even more retarded is every single mod that saw this thread get necroed and didn't lock it instantly. EDIT: And you are a graceless jerk. The Avilo BM is not something a normal person would post with pride. BMing Catz like that was a dick-move. BMing Hero was a dick-move. Posting the WhiteRa video, catching him with a brainfart moment, no matter how much of a classy guy he is that he said he didn't mind, was a dick-move. +1. This probably has more success in gm than like platinum league. I've actually lost to six pools a couple times on ladder because I was too greedy, thinking I can just delay my second depot because what kind of idiot Zerg would 6 pool a Terran. Why? I don't even... | ||
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Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
On March 11 2012 22:59 DaemonX wrote: And you are a graceless jerk  | ||
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