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StimmedProbe’s TvX Gas First, 2 Fact. Cheese
Last Update: October 31st, 2011
LINE-EM'-UP!!
Introduction
+ Show Spoiler +Sup TL, StimmedProbe back here again with another build. This was one of my favorite builds in season 3, as it yielded extremely fast games and often pissed off my opponents. I watched a game of QXC going for an ultra fast reactored hellion build vs a 1gate stargate Protoss on the Korean ladder. He smashed the Protoss so hard and I was really interested in the build. So after playing around a bit I came out with the build below. The basic jist of it all is that you get out 3 hellions super-fast, which soon grows to 6 and 9 and you roast all of your opponent’s workers.
This is probably the cheesiest thing you can do other than marine/scv all in. So if you are bored and wanna try something new here you guys go. This build is also really good in team games in particular 2v2 with a zerg partner as you can support his speedlings. This almost always works the first time against someone. They will be so confused and perplexed the first time for sure. In addition it works against all races and it works against grandmasters too =]
Build Order (TvX):
+ Show Spoiler +9 – Refinery @100% -> 3 SCVs on gas, pull them off at 244 gas one by one so you got 252 gas 10 – Supply Depot 13 – Barracks 16 – Factory @100% Factory swap to Reactor 16 – Factory (Proxied if possible) 16 – Reactor on Barracks 16 – Orbital Command 16 – Supply Depot *Pump 3 Hellions and rally the next 3 to your first 3 hellions, continue to pump, go roast your opponent's workers ASAP* Since this is quite a weird build here is a FPVOD of me doing the build vs an AI for reference. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee7-2CX6gbg
Strengths/Weaknesses
+ Show Spoiler +Strong Against:
vs. Terran: 15 CC, 1rax FE, No wall-in
vs. Zerg: 14pool, 15/16 Hatch
vs. Protoss: 16 Nexus, 1gate FE, 3gate robo, 3gate stargate, 4gate
Weak Against:
vs. Terran: Wall-in, Proxy 2 rax
vs. Zerg: 6/7 pool, 7 roach rush, fast double spine, evo chamber full wall-in
vs. Protoss: 3 stalker rush, Proxy 2 gate, early scout ->pylon wall-in
General Notes:
+ Show Spoiler +- I do not recommend doing this on any two player map, as it is really easy to scout and the hiding places are limited. Larger maps such as Tal’Darim Alter are great.
- Micro, micro, micro and micro more! The whole build is micro oriented, if your control is bad or you got over 9000 ping, don’t use this build.
- Do not use this build against the same person twice, especially in a row. It is much easier to stop the second time.
- You can also bring a few SCVs with you if you want to mess with the queens/stalkers, in addition you can repair your hellions with them.
- Mineral boosting can help you get the hellions out a few seconds faster, but it’s not necessary.
- This build works great in team games, especially with Zerg allies.
- Make sure you are prepared for some BM from your opponent =]
Conclusion:
+ Show Spoiler +I hope you guys enjoy this extremely fun and effective hellion build. Although it won’t teach you much about macro, you will improve your hellion micro for sure! Happy BBQ-ing my fellow Terrans!
Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.mediafire.com/?xu560qi20olqbpgOR http://www.2shared.com/file/gqW7nCid/DoubleFact.htmlSince the build is exactly the same vs any race, the games play out roughly the same. I roast workers, they try to counter and then they gg. I tried to include replays of popular openings and popular ways opponents react. There are 3 tvp replays, 2 tvz replays, 2 tvt replays and a 2vs2 replay. I have also included the build order replay inside. All of my opponents were either Grandmasters or very high masters. If you are familiar with the SEA scene you might recognize a few names in there  The TvT replays showcase the opening vs cloaked banshees and a 1rax FE, two of the most common builds. The 2 TvZ replays show the most common responses. In one replay my opponent immediately throws down 2 spines and a roach warren, the timing hits perfectly though. In the second replay my opponent tries to block with queens and use lings/spines to defend. The TvP replays showcase a 1gateFE, 3gateRobo and a stalker poke replay.
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Wow man thats a crazy strat. Good guide and ill throw this into my arsenal of all ins. Thanks
Video is down for me btw
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That´s the one all in I wanted to have against greedy toss. I sure will give this a try, sounds great! But what do you do if your terran opponent starts a wall in right at the beginning?
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Hurrrraaaaay for StimmedProbe! I love your builds!
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The VOD is getting processed, just be patient its a 1080p video lol just check back in a few minutes, sorry for the delay =D
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StimmedProbe always coming up with the most creative Terran cheeses
I saw DDE do this build vs Socke once, really demolished the probe line in seconds.
Very strong build
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Cool cheese. Punishes those "masters" who just follow a build order (2/3 of the Ps didn't even click your gas! lol!) instead of adapting to what is actually going on in the game in front of them.
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Shouldn't you add a 4gate to the weaknesses of this build? You arrived at the protoss base at 5:40, which is the timing of a balls 4 gate with all chrono but two on cybernetic core if I'm not mistaken.
Other than this... Creative cheese, I'll be careful about checking the gas count of my opponents from now :p.
Edit : Done with watching all the replays, this is such a ridiculous cheese ! Even when people know it's coming (Zerg trying to block the ramp while waiting for roaches), they die to this. Well played Mr StimmedProbe, you broke the metagame :o !
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I like it a lot.. though i have to ask you something what if some crazy base trade occurs?? hellions cant kill buildings at all....
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On October 31 2011 21:31 Death944 wrote:
That´s the one all in I wanted to have against greedy toss. I sure will give this a try, sounds great! But what do you do if your terran opponent starts a wall in right at the beginning?
how do you know if he's greedy when you get gas at 9
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i know it if i play custom games against some friends. most of them play incredibly greedy cause they know i like macro games and fail at all ins. so this one is quite nice but i´ll just use it against protoss because most terrans just build an wall in and be safe
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On October 31 2011 21:31 Death944 wrote:
That´s the one all in I wanted to have against greedy toss. I sure will give this a try, sounds great! But what do you do if your terran opponent starts a wall in right at the beginning?
If your terran opponent wall-ins right away you are pretty much screwed, you need to scout early and only do this on maps where they are not likely to wall-in such as tal-darim.
On October 31 2011 23:39 xTrim wrote:
I like it a lot.. though i have to ask you something what if some crazy base trade occurs?? hellions cant kill buildings at all....
You won't get into base trade situations, you kill all their workers and run your own workers towards your hellions. Then fight his army with your workers + hellions and he will just have his units so you will win. Worst comes to worst its a tie because you can lift and he has no money.
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Great idea
Have you found this strat to be much weaker against terrans? I would think its alot worse since it takes 4 shots to kill a marine/scv with red flame and you only have 3.
Also question about vs zerg/toss. Do you kill the lings/zealots first or do you just go crazy on the drones? I'm guessing you kill the units first since you state you have 3 then 6...implying retention.
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On November 01 2011 08:52 statikg wrote:
Great idea
Have you found this strat to be much weaker against terrans? I would think its alot worse since it takes 4 shots to kill a marine/scv with red flame and you only have 3.
Also question about vs zerg/toss. Do you kill the lings/zealots first or do you just go crazy on the drones? I'm guessing you kill the units first since you state you have 3 then 6...implying retention.
The build is much weaker against Terrans, you basically gotta know he doesn't like to wall in or do it on particular maps. Against Zerg/Protoss you can roast lings and zealots, they are basically free kills. Your main focus should be the drones/probes though once a stalker/roaches pop out. You should be able to get almost all their workers with 6 hellions, especially if you split up your hellions a bit to cut off the workers.
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That BM wasn't necessary in that VOD...
In all seriousness, this seems to be a wonderful build. It might be risky, but hey, a cheese is like that right? Also, what do you do if the toss is constantly forcefielding the ramp so you can't get in?
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YEY! an excuse not to go bio :D
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GREAT BO, I'm only silver and I won maybe 4 games in a row, surprising even plat players with it !!!!
We Terran were waiting so long for an innovative play to counter economic opennings on larger maps, here it is, say hello to the build of the month :'D
Thank You Very Much for sharing <3
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Great guide! I always have trouble dealing with hellions as Protoss, since they aren't used as frequently as bio and bio expand builds.
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I've been using a variant of this in 2v2 in conjunction with an immortal/zealot push and it's been very successful in master league. Your build is probably a bit more refined than mine, though, and you don't get a second reactor. I go double reactor factory (line 'em up!). In team games I've found the biggest vulnerability is early game defense, since you're only getting one marine (or none), but if you don't get cheesed out of the game you'll almost always win because mass hellion is so strong against T1.
Might try it in 1v1, it's definitely a lot of fun to play with.
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This build is hilarious. You just need persistence and decent micro to let your hellion numbers keep building up. You also have time to put up bunkers and make some marines if you need to. Great build xD
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Such a gamble lol , because once you plott down 9 gas and scout 7 pool i think you are screwed but for ladder its ok 
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This build didnt work 4 me one time out of 25 i used it agasint every race but terra. zerg has roaches out and toss can jsut block their ramp with 2 stalker seems pretty pointless
and im a master player who used this on a friends acc in diamond so either im dump or thsi build just doeasnt work 4 me
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Totally destroying the opposition with this build, and I practice my hellion control! Love it.
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On November 02 2011 08:45 Corsica wrote:Such a gamble lol , because once you plott down 9 gas and scout 7 pool i think you are screwed but for ladder its ok
I haven't been 6/7 pooled once in like the last 200 TvZ games I've played. It's basically an auto win for you if you know how to scv drill, and your opponents know that, so they don't go for it.
On November 02 2011 10:01 Nakama wrote:
This build didnt work 4 me one time out of 25 i used it agasint every race but terra. zerg has roaches out and toss can jsut block their ramp with 2 stalker seems pretty pointless
and im a master player who used this on a friends acc in diamond so either im dump or thsi build just doeasnt work 4 me
Replays? The timing windows should be roughly 20-30 seconds. Perhaps your opponents have faced this build before, can't give much advice without replays.
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Thanks for sharing I love hellions and hellion/rush/cheese! This one is quite unique :D
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Excellent. Thanks a lot. This build looks VERY STRONG. Another strat for the my personal repertory <3
Thank you again !
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I think I found an improved version of this build. In the original build the first three hellions pop out simultaniously at ~5:05, I managed to get the first two out at ~4:35, not stopping production, thus you get four at ~5:05. You wil have nine hellions at ~6:05, exactly at the same time as the original build. All this can be done by getting the reactored factory up as soon as possible, thus delaying the second one. Having your first two hellions out 30s earlier can be quite important, and having four instead of three for your first push is huge as well.
Build order
06 - 4xSCV, do -not- queue the fifth
10 - Supply Depot (use the SCV that popped last, so delay until ~1:10)
10 - Refinery (immediately after supply)
10 - 1xSCV
11 - Barracks
11 - 4xSCV
11 - Send scout to check for location of opponent
15 - Factory
15 - Reactor on Barracks -> remove one SCV from gas
15 - Orbital Command
15 - Supply Depot
15 - Swap Barracks and Factory
15 - 2xHellion (~4:05)
19 - Factory (~4:25) -> remove remaining SCVs from gas
19 - 2xHellion
23 - Supply Depot
XX - Nonstop contruction of hellions and supply depots
Notes
- Double workers on close mineral patches to gain a few seconds in the beginning.
- Use the SCV that constructs the first Supply Depot for non-stop contruction afterwards of Barracks, Factory, Supply Depot, Factory, Supply Depot, Supply Depot, etc. This minimizes traveltime and makes the build order a lot easier to execute extremely tight.
- Don't lose the scout, it's very helpfull in the first attack with four hellions.
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On November 03 2011 21:16 joeppp wrote:I think I found an improved version of this build. In the original build the first three hellions pop out simultaniously at ~5:05, I managed to get the first two out at ~4:35, not stopping production, thus you get four at ~5:05. You wil have nine hellions at ~6:05, exactly at the same time as the original build. All this can be done by getting the reactored factory up as soon as possible, thus delaying the second one. Having your first two hellions out 30s earlier can be quite important, and having four instead of three for your first push is huge as well. Show nested quote +Build order
06 - 4xSCV, do -not- queue the fifth
10 - Supply Depot (use the SCV that popped last, so delay until ~1:10)
10 - Refinery (immediately after supply)
10 - 1xSCV
11 - Barracks
11 - 4xSCV
11 - Send scout to check for location of opponent
15 - Factory
15 - Reactor on Barracks -> remove one SCV from gas
15 - Orbital Command
15 - Supply Depot
15 - Swap Barracks and Factory
15 - 2xHellion (~4:05)
19 - Factory (~4:25) -> remove remaining SCVs from gas
19 - 2xHellion
23 - Supply Depot
XX - Nonstop contruction of hellions and supply depots
Notes
- Double workers on close mineral patches to gain a few seconds in the beginning.
- Use the SCV that constructs the first Supply Depot for non-stop contruction afterwards of Barracks, Factory, Supply Depot, Factory, Supply Depot, Supply Depot, etc. This minimizes traveltime and makes the build order a lot easier to execute extremely tight.
- Don't lose the scout, it's very helpfull in the first attack with four hellions.
Very interesting! Think you could post a replay of you doing this build?
It would be much appreciated.
EDIT: Tried it on ladder and it totally rocks! That one extra hellion is really good. Maybe you should create your own thread about it to harvest some e-penis.
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Glad to see you like it!
I doubt my platinum level will give me any credibility, so I'd rather hop on here;)
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im doing this type (modified by me) build since season 2 ..
11 gas
13 rax
factory as soon as rax finishes
reactor on rax
1 helion
swap factory to reactor
2 helions
im out with 3 helions at about 5:10 like you and have more minerals.
i wall off with 2 depots + rax to be unscouted ans build the reactor on the rax in the base, put a bunker instead.
this build works against protoss pretty well, if the protoss isnt walling off with 2 stalkers or has sentrys, then it sux.
im rallying then 2 more helions and then transition into 1-1-1 easily into win.
only mass zealots or colossi is stopping the 1-1-1 transition afterwards.
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This build would also be strong against protoss DT expand. I would wager it's strong against every non-cheese protoss opening really b/c it's a TvP fast all-in based on mineral-only units; I think that just like the 3rax+supply drop all-in the only way to survive the early game is to scout the all-in and build five sentries ASAP.
Looks easy to scout though since you don't wall off (at least in the vid) and you don't build a marine.
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On November 04 2011 05:41 galivet wrote:
This build would also be strong against protoss DT expand. I would wager it's strong against every non-cheese protoss opening really b/c it's a TvP fast all-in based on mineral-only units; I think that just like the 3rax+supply drop all-in the only way to survive the early game is to scout the all-in and build five sentries ASAP.
Looks easy to scout though since you don't wall off (at least in the vid) and you don't build a marine.
And this is why Toss is getting Arc Shield in HotS.
But nice build! Way to use what Blizz gave you
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I've beaten this with Nexus first. I saw a reactor on the rax so I started to prepare for a 1-1-1 and left a probe at the watchtower. After I saw the hellions driving by the tower, I threw down 1 pylon at the bottom ramp and blocked the rest with stalkers. I sent my probes at the nat into my main, and then the terran proceeded to lose like 12 hellions to my stalkers !
It also transitions horribly because you've got 2 factories and little else for production. I'd equate it to a really late ling rush.
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Wait.. you actually say GLHF against a Computer? :D
On the build though: (from a PvT POV) it really seems very easy to scout since you don't make a marine and delay your orbital so much which either indicates an allin or a really bad terran. Should work in the lower leagues but I don't think this will get you into masters ^^
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On November 03 2011 21:16 joeppp wrote:I think I found an improved version of this build. In the original build the first three hellions pop out simultaniously at ~5:05, I managed to get the first two out at ~4:35, not stopping production, thus you get four at ~5:05. You wil have nine hellions at ~6:05, exactly at the same time as the original build. All this can be done by getting the reactored factory up as soon as possible, thus delaying the second one. Having your first two hellions out 30s earlier can be quite important, and having four instead of three for your first push is huge as well. Show nested quote +Build order
06 - 4xSCV, do -not- queue the fifth
10 - Supply Depot (use the SCV that popped last, so delay until ~1:10)
10 - Refinery (immediately after supply)
10 - 1xSCV
11 - Barracks
11 - 4xSCV
11 - Send scout to check for location of opponent
15 - Factory
15 - Reactor on Barracks -> remove one SCV from gas
15 - Orbital Command
15 - Supply Depot
15 - Swap Barracks and Factory
15 - 2xHellion (~4:05)
19 - Factory (~4:25) -> remove remaining SCVs from gas
19 - 2xHellion
23 - Supply Depot
XX - Nonstop contruction of hellions and supply depots
Notes
- Double workers on close mineral patches to gain a few seconds in the beginning.
- Use the SCV that constructs the first Supply Depot for non-stop contruction afterwards of Barracks, Factory, Supply Depot, Factory, Supply Depot, Supply Depot, etc. This minimizes traveltime and makes the build order a lot easier to execute extremely tight.
- Don't lose the scout, it's very helpfull in the first attack with four hellions.
Wow I just tried that build out, it is really good. Probably better than mine. How'd you come up with it? Everything lines up very nicely. Nice job!
Edit: Just beat a rank #34 GM Zerg with this build. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/4730/Westley
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-240318.jpg)
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On November 04 2011 12:25 StimmedProbe wrote:Wow I just tried that build out, it is really good. Probably better than mine. How'd you come up with it? Everything lines up very nicely. Nice job! Edit: Just beat a rank #34 GM Zerg with this build. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/4730/Westley
Great to see it actually works on high level!
I really enjoy fiddling around with build orders, as sometimes even the best ones can be improved. I alse have a hugely improved version of the iEchoic build, where you only use one factory instead of two. Unfortunately my platinum level playing skills hamper me in applying all this theorycrafting in practice
The thing that got me started with your build was the huge gap between your Supply Depot and Barracks. In order to get a reactored factory up as soon as possible you should (if possible of course!) have non-stop serial construction of Supply Depot -> Barracks -> Factory, with the reactor started ~25s after the barracks. The other constraint is gas: at the moment you start your factory you should have at least 100, and 25s later at least 50. Given that you mine ~110 gas/minute from one geyser, you can deduce that you should start your Refinery at most 5s later than the Supply Depot. From here on it's just tuning, trying to squeeze in as much SCVs as possible, and getting the OC up as soon as possible.
This build might actually be scarier if you get a techlab on your barracks after having four (or six) hellions, swap the barracks and factory, and switch to marine+tank. Especially against walloffs this might solve some problems.
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Great stuff! I'm going to watch all the replays right now.
I've been using a similar concept against the Zerg except it relies on 3-4 naked factories into expo, tech labs, 2 armouries, BF, mixed thor/hellion ball with or without repairing SCVs.
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Fellow Terran let us keep this post secret! :D
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yea i dont think this is strong against any of the protoss builds you listed, except maybe 1 gate expand...
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Everyone talking smack about the build I have been using it in mid masters and just stomping every protoss I play, its really awesome. The only thing you have to watch out for is a probe just harassing endlessly (i try faking building a marine to get him to run away) because once someone build a pylon beside my reactor while i was trying to switch. (beat him anyway hahha)
I gave up on using it in TvT because way too many ppl block and then you instantly lose. Maybe you could use it in a BoX if you noticed in the first game that he didnt block off.
Also good success in TvZ but don't rally your factories into his base because it causes them to take too much damage from spines/queens while they are running in 1 or 2 at a time. Just rally outside the base and attack when your first group dies/escapes. Don't go in groups less then 4.
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Watched the video and I gotta say..... your taste of music is just awful.
...but double thumbs-up for the build. =)
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Question... what's the purpose of the 2nd reactor, the one on the Barracks? The 2nd factory is proxied so you're not going to switch it to that. Is it to transition into bio and/or to expand behind a bunker or what?
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On January 26 2012 09:15 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Question... what's the purpose of the 2nd reactor, the one on the Barracks? The 2nd factory is proxied so you're not going to switch it to that. Is it to transition into bio and/or to expand behind a bunker or what?
seriously? there is only one reactor, which he starts building after the second fac...
otherwise, how u get three, six, and nine hellions O.O
which you would also have known if you had watched the vod o.O
i can see how ppl are too lazy to dl and watch a rep.. a simple youtube vod
sorry bro dont mean to bm you but i am honestly flabbergasted right now..
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On January 26 2012 18:34 qwertzi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 09:15 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Question... what's the purpose of the 2nd reactor, the one on the Barracks? The 2nd factory is proxied so you're not going to switch it to that. Is it to transition into bio and/or to expand behind a bunker or what? seriously? there is only one reactor, which he starts building after the second fac... otherwise, how u get three, six, and nine hellions O.O which you would also have known if you had watched the vod o.O i can see how ppl are too lazy to dl and watch a rep.. a simple youtube vod sorry bro dont mean to bm you but i am honestly flabbergasted right now..
Lol oops... well it said switch factory to reactor before it said build a reactor, that's what confused me.
Also I don't get why you BM me and then say you don't mean to BM me. When people say that kind of thing it just doesn't make sense. It's like they want to say something but are afraid they will be disliked for it, so they claim that that's not what they're trying to do. Though I can understand why I frustrated you.
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HI teamliquid people ! modest EU silver terran here
Today, I was reminded this "old" TvP build by some GM's match history... I saw this openings : gas 1st at 11, 13 rax into early factory then reactor... (but no 2nd factory for these GM)
so here it is : I'm doing 10depot
11 gas
13 rax (key moment cause you want to put guys on the gas and build barack at the same time)
16 factory reactor OC depot
@50 gas I get 1 then even 2 vcs AWAY from gas to slowly reach the 100 gas for the second factory
17 scv ...
switch reactor >> go 2x hellion 1x marine while adding more depots
@ 100 gas build 2nd factory
then I slow tech to starport and one medivac if there is a wall !
my 2 cents to make this build more lowleague friendly with more economy. this fun build allows early wins vs toss and eventerran !!! ^^
I have had a lot of success in customs games against diamond and even masters with this build, in TvP and even in TvT !!! o_O
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Imt not sure how this build is ever suppose to win tvz. When ever I get to the zergs base with my first hellions he already has 2 queens minimum with 2 more on the way. I've tried this build like 3 times vs zerg and each time they can defend with hatch first without even scouting. I think this build actually sucks tbh. unless I'm doing something wrong this build isn't going to beat anyone that doesn't have autism. would not recommend this build or any of stimmed probes other crappy builds
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On October 24 2012 15:14 Liszt wrote:
Imt not sure how this build is ever suppose to win tvz. When ever I get to the zergs base with my first hellions he already has 2 queens minimum with 2 more on the way. I've tried this build like 3 times vs zerg and each time they can defend with hatch first without even scouting. I think this build actually sucks tbh. unless I'm doing something wrong this build isn't going to beat anyone that doesn't have autism. would not recommend this build or any of stimmed probes other crappy builds
You're using a one-year old build against the MU with the most changed meta since 2011
why the fuck are you complaining
( to put some weight behind that, the reason it doesn't work so well in tvz anymore is probably because of the increased reliance on queens.. back when everyone went fast gas for ling speed, queens came out later so it probably worked better.)
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well yeah this build is totally worthless tvz now
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
I don't know why anyone would go and check out a year-old TvZ build and expect it to be useful in even the broadest strokes. Since October 2011:
Emp was nerfed from 2.0 radius to 1.5
Snipe damage was nerfed from 45 to 25 (+25 vs Psionic)
MULE was nerfed to always return 30 minerals per trip, regardless of mineral type
Overlord movement speed increased from 0.4687 to 0.586, that is 25% faster
Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5
The October 2011 was late Season 3, early Season 4.
Season 3 Maps: Abyssal Caverns, Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Nerazim Crypt, TDA LE, Antiga Shipyard, Shattered Temple, Xel'Naga Caverns.
The only maps on that list still in the pool today are Shakuras, TDA, and Antiga.
The matchup has changed fundamentally, as have the maps. Don't expect anything this old to work as advertised.
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Sigh..I thought there was a new Terran guide...was so happy. Lately there has been a lack of terran guides..
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Does is still work in tvp?
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On October 25 2012 00:44 Skyblueone wrote:
Does is still work in tvp?
no. all protosses, unless they are retarded, scout on 9 and will be-able to see absolutely everything. Then they'll just wall with pylons and kill all of your hellions with a single stalker. all you'll be left with are 2 worthless factories and a terrible economy. this is assuming that your opponent has an iq of above 90 so actually it will probably work vs most protoss players below GM.
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On October 26 2012 03:46 Liszt wrote:no. all protosses, unless they are retarded, scout on 9 and will be-able to see absolutely everything. Then they'll just wall with pylons and kill all of your hellions with a single stalker. all you'll be left with are 2 worthless factories and a terrible economy. this is assuming that your opponent has an iq of above 90 so actually it will probably work vs most protoss players below GM.
Lol... I sense a lot of anger, and from your earlier comments I don't think you are very good.
Protoss's don't scout on 9 every PvT. Some don't scout until much later, and some scout earlier. also, with a marine out, the probe must either get out or die.
ALSO, its possible to block a 9 scout with a bit of effort.
So, according to your logic, because you can't wall of right, every other toss is retarded  .
Watch MVP v Rain to see examples of how to stop early scouting.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3257825430_b58306b234.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.10505305.3122/fig,white,mens,ffffff.jpg)
