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I searched and only found some vague topics relating to this question.
I'm a Diamond protoss player, and most of the games I lose is really just because I don't have enough information on what the enemy is doing. Either I don't know what the enemy is teching towards, I don't see an incoming drop, I don't see expansions going up, etc, you get the point.
Recently I've been going for standard robo builds, and after the first observer comes out, and I determine that i'm not immediately at risk of an attack, I pump out probably 3-4 more observers (and maybe more later in the game) before making any Immortals or teching to Colossus. I use them essentially like a zerg would use Overlords, placing them at places on the map so I always know what the opponent is doing.
I feel like this has helped me a lot. So, I was wondering whether or not this is just a standard thing most people do that I've been missing out on, or if there's a better way to keep track of the opponent. The only downside I see to this is that creating an observer is using up time that you could be producing a higher tier combat from the robo facility.
So basically, how many observers do you get in most games? Do you feel like having more than 2-3 is useful?
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your Country52797 Posts
2-3 is plenty if you plan on being active with them.
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I always get 4-5, one on army, one in middle, one with my army, two in drop locations.
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I don't play protoss, but unless you scout detection in your matchups I never see more than two produced. 2 on the field is a good count.
You may want to cut your observer count and simply just move them around for the scouting information as best you can. I play terran and I do this with a medivac + 8 marines or a viking if I need to know what the enemy is doing expo-wise without having scans available. You could keep a cheap unit like a probe at all expos to check expo timing.
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Whenever I'm not building Collossi or Immortals, I spam observers and place them across the map. Usually I end up with 8 by the end of a game and it's really helpful against mutas/hidden expos/proxies/burrow and especially scouting the enemy.
Might not be efficient but that's just my style 
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ive kinda noticed that some plays treat obs like being a default build thing (kinda like drones with zerg) IF the robo is unoccupied (aka building colossus) because they essentially are always useful. I seem to recall sc1 toss having MANY obs all over the map for vision
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wow 8 observers.. :S. 2-4 is enough. 1 on army. 1 scouting his base constantly. 1 on his army and 1 to roam around the map. You can find hidden expos by scouting with a probe. Its pretty easy to know is hes hiding expo. (look at army count at specific time of the game, Probes, etc.)
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I don't think going over 3 observers is worthwhile. They aren't free - the mineral + gas + supply + robo-time cost is substantial.
Furthermore, what do you really want observers to do?
- Scout your opponent's bases to know what tech they have, which bases they've taken, and where they are economically
- Scout your opponent's army to know the unit composition, numbers, and location (when he goes for a push, etc)
- Defend against cloaked units
You should only need one observer to stick with your opponent's main army, and this can be the same observer as the one that scouts his base (Scouting your opponent's base also can often be done with gateway units, phoenixes or hallucination). You'll also want an observer with your army, to punish burrowing (v Z), to kill your opponent's observer or not lose to DTs or a mothership (v P) and to not die to cloaked ghosts or banshees (v T). In some cases, the observer with your opponent's army can serve this function as well.
The only case where you'd need more than 2 observers is if your opponent is harassing several locations with cloaked units. If you're playing vs Zerg, you probably already have a forge, so you can deal with burrow harassment with cannons. If you're playing vs Protoss or Terran, you may want to get a bunch of observers and split them up in groups with small forces to defend, but it might be better to just defend with cannons (especially against DTs).
This is just my opinion and I'm not very good at Starcraft, so take it for what it's worth. 
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atleast 2, add 1 more if you dont have map control. going above 3 is not really useful
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pvp: 2
gas/robo usage is too important for having more than 2 on the field
pvz: 2
1 for scouting and 1 in your army
pvt: 3
1 for general scouting, 1 in front of terran base and 1 in front of your own base or in the middle of the map. having additonal observer for dropps is also good.
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Personally I think 3-4 is a pretty good number PvT(if it isn't cutting into colossi production). As a terran I'm always on the lookout for the obs, but if you can skip having them chasing the army and rather station them at key locations, where the terran is likely going to rally to/have traffic(both scv train and army) going through. It is hell to find those stationary observers, but pretty easy to spot them moving(for drop spotting, if possible, pylon is imo better than obs).
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On October 19 2011 06:27 ShoWTimE94 wrote:
pvp: 2
gas/robo usage is too important for having more than 2 on the field
Agree.
On October 19 2011 06:27 ShoWTimE94 wrote:
pvz: 2
1 for scouting and 1 in your army
I prefer to use only one observer. Scout the base, and push the creep a little, scout the base...
On October 19 2011 06:27 ShoWTimE94 wrote:
pvt: 3
1 for general scouting, 1 in front of terran base and 1 in front of your own base or in the middle of the map. having additonal observer for dropps is also good.
Seems about right, though I feel 3 is the most I would need to scout the base army and drops. Terran usually will have some turrets laying about to scout DTs and Observers anyways, which restrains the scout.
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I depends on a lot of things. Getting 3-4 Observers before going for Immortals and Colossus is a bad idea. It will leave you way too far behind on tech. However, if you're going for some sort of mass gateway composition (like a 6gate esq build against zerg or something) then pumping those observers out is ok.
I'll usually pump out 2 before I start colossus production and later into the game i'll get a lot more out, especially with double robo late game. In PvP you can't have more than 2 because you'll be cutting colossus production too much.
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About 3 observers should be enough: 1 in base for defense , 1 close to enemy army, 1 with your main army. For scouting the base the cheapest and safest way is halucinated phoenix, also use them to scout for expansions. If you notice anoying drops use 1-2 observers to prepare for drops.
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i go for 7-8 observers and dont go collossus i put 2 to watch for drops 1 in his base to see what hes up to 1 outside his base to see when hes coming out 1 on xel naga because terrans kill observer outside their base 1 on his 3rd to see the timing to expand and 1 obs is active going to black spots .You might say you are crazy why you spend so much resources on vision but the thing is i get to very late game with playing extra safe and win games because people dont play late game so much so i feel like i have an edge playing late game every game.
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In PvZ: I usually go fast robo and you have exactly enough time to get 2 out by the time your Collosus Den is finished. 1st for scouting and 2nd for mandatory anti-burrowed-roaches-under-your-army-GG. And scouting ahead/creep tumors etc. of course.
I usually try to pump out a few extra obs after 3-4 collosus if it's appropriate, sometimes building a 2nd robo at the same time, since every robo unit is incredibly useful in the matchup.
In PvT: Similar idea. If you are doing a 1 gate robo expo or something like that you can skip obs completely for a while if you see an obvious mass bio opening in favor of immortals. I usually build 2 as well in the early game, more if I have time to spare on my robo. The important thing is to put observers in areas where a drop would probably come from, scouting for expos as well as main path of attack if you don't have map control. If he is going banshee ---> 1/1/1 you probably already lose anyways so obs isn't really as important as in PvZ if you want to skip robo completely.
In PvP: I suck so meh. You need to get detection eventually so surprise DTs don't make you instantly lose the game, but other than that it's incredibly situational.
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2-4
1. Scout their base and see composition. MANDATORY
2. Follow Army and see where they are at all times. MANDATORY
3. Check for Expos and patrol around for hidden expos Optional
4. Patrol for drops
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I would say 2-3. If you go gateway style, you can pump out up to 4, but any more than that is pretty much overkill. 4 obs that are constantly active can pretty much spot everything. Placing pylons everywhere and on map edges (to spot drops) is a good alternative to making obs and wasting robo build time/gas.
PvP, I like to get out 2, one for DT's and one for scouting. Most of the time an obs will get picked off during engagements, so its always good to have an extra so you dont have to stop collosus production.
PvT I think you could go for 3 in this matchup. Positioning is everything in PvT. 1 on their army, 1 on my army, and 1 moving all over the place. Its really important to see the terrans unit comp. You want to see if you need to tech switch or if you can abuse a timing because the terran doesn't have something like enough vikings based on your collosus numberes or enough ghosts for your HT.
PvZ I usually only get 1. I scout the zergs base to see what is going on, then I usually have it return to my main army. The rest of my scouting is usually done by hallucinated phoenixes to check for things like Hive timing, infestors, or greater spire. You can get 2, but it takes a small toll on your robo production.
In lower leagues, it doesn't matter how many obs you have, but in higher leagues the small delays in your robo production can really hurt.
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Over 3 Observers before making anything else out of a Robo is rather excessive, as well as inefficient use of resources.
It sounds to me that you need to develop your game sense more. Watch a lot more replays. Learn how the openers work, the key timings, and practice making good reads on what his strategy is, where his army is at any point in time, what units he has at any point in time, what is he most likely to do, etc. Get more comfortable with working with limited information, because you'll often need to anyway.
Observers don't cost that much, and these days plenty of people are getting Robo only for Observers (and/or Warp Prisms), but relying on the ability to see every relevant spot on the map as early as possible is not the best habit to develop imo.
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The optimal Observer count (IMO) is two, this is due to the fact that observers cost a lot of gas and having more than 2 obs (one for for your army and one for scouting) is more detrimental than helpful in my own experience, also, you can build two obs and an inmortal before the robotics bay is done if you start it right when the robo finishes and with constant chrono (the inmortal will finish like 5 secs after the robo bay is done).
It is better to spend that gas in upgrades and key units such as templars or collosus depending on your style, for me, I personally use warp prisms in all match-ups and droping is my way to gather info (and denying expos/snipe key tech structures/etc).
Spreading your pylons in your main should help you to spot incoming drops a bit earlier and be able to react accordingly.
gl hf ^^
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If you are choosing to make 3 observers BEFORE you make a colossus or immortal, by the time your first observer gets to the enemies base you might already have a small to medium force of MM charging up your ramp that you may not be able to defend. I personally like to get first observer scout base while getting an immortal just to be safe.
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It depends on the match-up:
PvP: 1 in their base to keep a look out for dt tech. If shrine comes up, get at least one more.
PvZ: 2 and stay active with them (especially useful against burrowed roaches and infestors, and getting rid of creep tumors). You can always scout with hallucinated phoenix though, especially if they get a spore crawler or two (or if they have overseers); you don't want to let your observers get sniped, as that will disrupt your immortal or colossus production.
PvT: 1 very early (most important match-up to get that early scout in, especially to have against cloaked banshees too), and then have a total of 3 or 4 (cloaked ghosts will auto-kill you, and observers can get quickly sniped with a scan and stim or viking).
You're welcome
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depends on the situation, but never more than 3 alive at the same time.
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Do NOT get 3-4 Observers before teching to Colossus. Observers are very gas heavy, meaning every Observer you have slows down your tech significantly as well as forcing you to wait for them to finish before you can build any other Robo units. One is enough to scout out your opponent before teching. Afterwards, slowly build more, but only when you really need to.
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PvP = 2, 1 for your army, one for scouting/his army if he doesn't have an obs.
PvT = 1-3, 1 if you have map control and can leave a probe out from his base -> he's turtling, 2 is to watch his front and one in your army. 3 if for when he's shown cloak. To scout drops I put down pylons.
PvZ = 2, 1 for his army and one for his next base. Best time to attack is when he is expanding and you know when you're going to be attacked.
Try to get away with making as few observers as possible.
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Having a minimum of 2 in each matchup early is a must/ One to scout and one as a "defensive" obs. I think 3-4 is safe for the mid late game, investing in too many more than that can be costly though especially if your obs keep getting killed off. In pvp and pvt, I think obs are critical to watch for drops from warp prisms or medivacs, so would recommend 3-4. Against zerg the obs use is a little different for my play, I usually use them primarily for scouting expos and tech throughout the game as opposed to using them defensively.
-Sky
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It depends on the matchup and the playstyle of your opponent. You will tend to get the most for PvT followed by vZ and vP.
In general this is my ob layout:
- 1 to keep tab on army, usually parks at their natural
- 1 to scout his base(s), keep a tab on their tech and worker saturation
- 1 to follow my army
- 1 to patrol around the other half of the map to check for expos
Your ob count should increase as the game progresses, it is completely wrong to say don't get 3+ obs. Which is why its good to keep your robo busy once it's up. However, if your only running on 1 base, getting more than 2 will hurt your gas for other stuff.
Psychological Edge
From talking to friends and my personal experience, I feel less nervous when I have more vision of the minimap, it feels like I have more control of the game and it feels good to know when they move out, attack, expand, tech switch. So if you feel the same way, by all means build more obs (provided you have more than 1 base!), but if you feel your gosu with your star-sense, then use your money for other shit.
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In PvT, if my opponent is going bio, my robo is used to make almost only observers because I don't get collossus before being on 3 bases (i.e. I spam observers lol; usually end up with a max of 4-5). If terran goes mech, I only make two observers.
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Over 9000
+ Show Spoiler +Any more then 1 is nice... as long as you are active with them or use them in common drop paths.
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i like 3 minimum, one with my army, one which floats around the opponents base (scouting tech/ups/timing attacks/expo/etc) and one floating around the field checking other things, if i cant get pylons in place to scout drops properly (map dependent) and if i don't feel pressured i'll often spend production time to make another 1 (sometimes 2) to move around scouting drops
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On October 19 2011 06:02 TehTemplar wrote:
2-3 is plenty if you plan on being active with them.
I think 2-3 is optimal. Nothing worse then having your obs snipped and then being beatten by cloak banshees or DTs.
Any more then that and your delaying your other robo tech too much
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during any sort of macro game you should have at least 3 imo, the more the better if you can squeeze it in without dying
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Before reading this thread I actually had pretty much the same revelation last night after I lost a game because I didn't have the vision to see where my opponent had expanded (a hidden, cross map third) and when he was pushing across the map to engage.
I plan on probably going Observer, Immortal, Observer, Immortal, etc, in the early game now to see how it does.
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EPT
