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Baneling Toilet w/ Ultralisk Shield
Video 1: http://www.twitch.tv/keyzx/b/297262790
*Everything was thrown into the Vortex to see how effective the Banelings could be. In a real game scenario, obviously a Protoss player would not send in most of their army, and mainly the Archons*
Video 2: Coming Soon.
Banelings: Make about 30-40 banelings and keep them behind your broodlords at all times. If you run into a vortex scenario, you can save most of your Broodlords + any ground army you may have as well. The splash will insta-kill any archons + any other units that enter the vortex. So yes, this could essentially mean you can 1 shot a Protoss deathball, but only if they're stupid enough to send everything else in, either on purpose or by mistake.
Ultralisks: Their main purpose is to act as a splash shield, spreading out the archons even more, so that if an AoE does hit, it's minimal. They also protect your broodlords from taking blink stalker fire and force void rays to target fire broods, rather than a-move. It really gives a good opportunity for your Broodlords to retreat back to your Infestors and Overseers (which btw, you should always keep in the back as well if possible).
*If you make too few banelings, your broodlords will be hit with an initial Archon splash, but it won't necessarily kill them. They will be vulnerable though, so retreating immediately is almost a must.
End-game Unit Comp:The perfect unit composition that's vortex proof seems to be something like 12 Broodlords, 8 Ultralisks, 10 Infestors, 35 Banelings and 3-4 Overseers. This is assuming the Protoss player does not send in more than 7 Archons, which usually they don't, but even then your still pretty safe. It's great offensively and can also take a lot of damage in return. If you run into a large map where blink stalkers are trying to abuse Broodlord speed, your Ultralisks can always cover your butt. Infestors ofc serve as anti-air and detection (fungal), just don't forget your overseers.
Ultralisk/Infestor vs Roach/Hydra: This of course is personal preference, and should also be based on what the Protoss army consists of. I just believe Ultralisk/Infestor is much more efficient vs a remaining Stalker/Collossus ball. Not to mention blinking stalkers melt faster to a bunch of Ultralisks if they want a piece of your broodlords. No protoss is going to go heavy zealot with Broodlords in the picture, so 99% of the time, the Ultralisks won't be hard countered.
*I'll be adding another video soon.
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Got some replays? even unit tester?
I thought with the 1.5seconds invincibility after Vortex, ground units could spread out fast enough to avoid the '1 hit KO splash' syndrome. Air units spread out slower, so they are still affected.
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On October 12 2011 12:21 Trusty wrote:
Got some replays? even unit tester?
I thought with the 1.5seconds invincibility after Vortex, ground units could spread out fast enough to avoid the '1 hit KO splash' syndrome. Air units spread out slower, so they are still affected.
I can post some replays to show you guys the tests, absolutely, just give me a little time. The 1 hit splash ALWAYS hits. With the Ultralisks added, it does reduce the splash considerably, but your Broodlords will still get hit at least once by a couple of archons.
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I have tested this out before, both in games and in unit tester, and yes, Banelings absolutely wreck havoc if the Protoss throws his units into the Vortex with them. Like, throwing Archons into the Vortex is great and all, but I would just about argue Banelings are far more destructive. I don't really know if that's true but from what I've seen everything just melts to Banes, of course you will want a decent amount of Banes in the Vortex to make sure everything dies.
I've been trying to tell people to start making Banelings if they see a Mothership but idk if it's caught on yet.
OH! And another possibility to the Archon Toilet is if you have a decent number of Infestors you can just dump all their energy into throwing Infested Terrans into the Vortex, they will absorb hits and do a lot of damage as well. It's not really a "solution" so much as an option you can choose to help reduce the impact of the Vortex.
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Video link is up at the top in the OP.
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why would protoss send his whole army into the vortex? that defeats the purpose of the spell
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On October 12 2011 13:08 ChineseWife wrote:
why would protoss send his whole army into the vortex? that defeats the purpose of the spell
Sometimes they do it in order to save units or ensure they have enough units to kill off the Broodlords with stalkers since they'll spawn right beneath them.
Sometimes, their own units end up getting sent in because they were too close, it happens.
I just wanted to make sure I could test it as well.
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I'm interested, however this counter is 100% dependent on your own play, if you aren't going ultralisk baneling or have either out, a mothership "rush" or at least a 3 base mothership can kill you.
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This seems too dependent on your opponent doing what you think he will do. What happens if he starts going colossi, immortals, carriers, or something else. You can't rely on an entire composition to beat one tactic of your opponent unless it works on its own as a general strategy.
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Every game is different, every game will have different unit comps and different strategies.
This is simply a counter to keeping your Broodlords ALIVE, while doing fair damage in return (to any enemy units that enter the vortex), it's not supposed to win you the game.
Thanks.
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On October 12 2011 13:08 ChineseWife wrote:
why would protoss send his whole army into the vortex? that defeats the purpose of the spell Here are a couple examples (I've been experimenting with vortex since HUARGH originally posted his build). Say you have a roach/hydra army vortexed and a protoss has zealot/archon with a few stalkers for support (this composition would die to roach/hydra otherwise). The protoss will throw in zealots and archons into the vortex because when everything pops, the zealots and archons will be given good surface area vs. the roaches and will actually fight decently against them (often winning depending on upgrades, especially if there is no detection). Same with infestor/BL, the zealots kill the infestors insanely fast and the archons destroy the broods with splash damage. Mixing in baneling/ultra in the vortex messes up the surface area because of the huge ultras and the archons end up so they aren't near the center and then the banelings kill everything as soon as the 1.5 seconds is done and units can attack again.
Though, unlike the video, I wouldn't run the stalkers in. I usually spread them out instead while my zealots and archons are in the vortex. I've been goofing with vortexes for the last week and it seems banelings definitely are the best answer, though I've never tried with ultras. Neat idea!
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I was in a 4v4 when opponents vortexed a big chunk of our army ran in with banes and then proceeded to call down a nuke when spell was ending. It looked fukin epic, however in the end we won the game. They were ofcourse an arranged team but I was seriously impressed.
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On October 12 2011 12:21 Trusty wrote:
Got some replays? even unit tester?
I thought with the 1.5seconds invincibility after Vortex, ground units could spread out fast enough to avoid the '1 hit KO splash' syndrome. Air units spread out slower, so they are still affected.
I still don't think the 1.5 seconds is enough. When you go on faster mode the seconds go by a lot quicker. I saw a game between destiny and Inka who were practicing and the archon toilet still worked quite well. I remember people on the stream saying "WOW 60 supply in 1 second". Was crazy
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You know what a better counter is to vortex? Spread out your army and don't throw everything into it.
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i cant imagine a scenario in which I'll have 32 banelings laying around lategame vs toss...
but i guess that could be my play style
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On October 12 2011 14:53 ishboh wrote:
i cant imagine a scenario in which I'll have 32 banelings laying around lategame vs toss...
but i guess that could be my play style
The scenario would probably be that you scout the Mothership and produce the banelings then. Granted, you are putting a lot of supply and resources into countering only one possible usage of the Mothership, but after IPL I can imagine a lot of metoos on the ladders employing that maneuver.
Even then, there's also a chance you can use the banelings to drop onto the protoss army during a skirmish otherwise so it's not a complete waste. At the end of the day even if you fuck up his army without having to use them, you then are equipped to bust through and start fucking with his econ or wrecking his infrastructure.
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On October 12 2011 14:53 ishboh wrote:
i cant imagine a scenario in which I'll have 32 banelings laying around lategame vs toss...
but i guess that could be my play style
32 banelings = 8 roaches.
I'd take 32 banelings anyday.
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On October 12 2011 14:46 Anihc wrote:
You know what a better counter is to vortex? Spread out your army and don't throw everything into it.
that is a completely flawed argument.
You would be fighting with less supply than he has and if he landed it on a choke point, you can't engage there until the whole vortex is finished.
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On October 12 2011 15:10 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 14:53 ishboh wrote:
i cant imagine a scenario in which I'll have 32 banelings laying around lategame vs toss...
but i guess that could be my play style 32 banelings = 8 roaches. I'd take 32 banelings anyday.
Yah, the only time the 8 roaches would be more cost effective is if the banelings aren't guaranteed to deal damage, and the roaches are able to live long enough to outkill their cost; but in this scenario the banelings all do deal their damage so it's a really one-sided comparison in favor of the banelings.
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EPT
