So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
I defeated a master 6 pooling when I 14 14'nd and I am only gold. Don't have replay. In essence what I do is move command pull back/surround depending on what he does, when queen and a few lings pop SAFE. He usually mineral far right or left if lings follow go other side and attack when you have surround. I heard some top pro say never fight in mineral line so I just dont.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
maybe you should try giving him some micro tips rather than bashing on how below average he is
drone drill, click all drones on to mineral patch far from where lings are coming, when they're all on, click mine on opposite mineral patch and right as they're moving towards lings attack move to surround as your first 4 lings are coming out, invest in some more lings because he all ined
As soon as you see the 6 pool, pull drones from gas but keep spending your larva on drones. Your scouting drone should look out for the exact timing the first 6 lings are moving out. Pull all drones in time, so you can fight the first wave of lings OFF creep (on top of your ramp). Its important you time this out well as you will want to keep mining as long as possible, to be able to afford a round of lings. Spread your drones a little in order to get a good sourround (you dont want to engange in a limbo line) and just attack move. Your ~17 drones will easily crush his 6 lings. If he builds a spine, attack with a few drones (3-4) and keep chasing the lings with the rest of the drones. Build 6 lings as soon as your pool is done.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
I've lost to a 6pool with 14/14 which should actually be stronger vs 6pool than 13/14 (which isn't even a good build imo). I was a GM zerg last season, currently playing on a Random acct this season in rank 1 masters. To say "that's quite bad" is a bunch of bullshit. It happens. It's map dependent. You might get outmacroed by lings. The spine may get up. He may have pulled all 6 drones.
Gimme a break.
On October 11 2011 04:45 evilm0nkey wrote: As soon as you see the 6 pool, pull drones from gas but keep spending your larva on drones. Your scouting drone should look out for the exact timing the first 6 lings are moving out. Pull all drones in time, so you can fight the first wave of lings OFF creep (on top of your ramp). Its important you time this out well as you will want to keep mining as long as possible, to be able to afford a round of lings. Spread your drones a little in order to get a good sourround (you dont want to engange in a limbo line) and just attack move. Your ~17 drones will easily crush his 6 lings. If he builds a spine, attack with a few drones (3-4) and keep chasing the lings with the rest of the drones. Build 6 lings as soon as your pool is done.
I disagree - I cut drones at 15 to have 3 larvae by the time your pool finishes (cut the OL).
The most common mistake I see is people trying to engage in the mineral line. DON'T do that. You will fight 3ish drones vs 3ish zerrglings and you will lose most, if not all of your workers. Even if you surround him(and rly, if you get your lings surrounded when 6pooling you deserve to lose, there isn't really much else to be looking at...) he can just take a few steps back and avoid that easily. A much better way of engageing is to fight him in the open. Pull ALL your drones and it should be 14-15 drones vs 6 zerglings. When his reinforcements arives your pool should be complete or at least close to be complete. with your won lings + queen you can simply overproduce him.
btw, if you opened gas, make sure you take your drones off gas the second you see him 6pool. If you gathered enough for speed you should prolly delay it a bit. Once you survive it's more or less GG anyways!
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
maybe you should try giving him some micro tips rather than bashing on how below average he is
ok, do this build instead, it rapes 6 pool, and almost any other zerg fast aggro opener out there. drone til 10, double extractor trick, 2 more drones, cancel 1 gas, save for pool, 3 in gas til 88 gas, pull drones 1 at a time so u get 100 gas, get ling speed, 3 sets of lings, then a queen, then an ovie, then more lings if they are constant ling aggro, if you can't stop a 6 pool with this build i don't know what to say.
On October 11 2011 04:51 Lazermonkey wrote: The most common mistake I see is people trying to engage in the mineral line. DON'T do that. You will fight 3ish drones vs 3ish zerrglings and you will lose most, if not all of your workers. Even if you surround him(and rly, if you get your lings surrounded when 6pooling you deserve to lose, there isn't really much else to be looking at...) he can just take a few steps back and avoid that easily. A much better way of engageing is to fight him in the open. Pull ALL your drones and it should be 14-15 drones vs 6 zerglings. When his reinforcements arives your pool should be complete or at least close to be complete. with your won lings + queen you can simply overproduce him.
btw, if you opened gas, make sure you take your drones off gas the second you see him 6pool. If you gathered enough for speed you should prolly delay it a bit. Once you survive it's more or less GG anyways!
Engaging in the mineral line is most optimal, most of the time. You simply try to mine as much as possible, and when he comes close, tell them to mine the furthest away patch, when they run to you, click the closest patch, if he tries to attack, then attack with insta-surround. If not, then you're buying time and it's better than in the open, and you can sneak extra mining in.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
maybe you should try giving him some micro tips rather than bashing on how below average he is
ok, do this build instead, it rapes 6 pool, and almost any other zerg fast aggro opener out there. drone til 10, double extractor trick, 2 more drones, cancel 1 gas, save for pool, 3 in gas til 88 gas, pull drones 1 at a time so u get 100 gas, get ling speed, 3 sets of lings, then a queen, then an ovie, then more lings if they are constant ling aggro, if you can't stop a 6 pool with this build i don't know what to say.
This build is god awful. Don't use it. Sure, it beats 6pool, but you might as well advise someone to merely go 10pool every game. At least that way they'll solidly beat 6pools and hatch first.
... I don't even understand what you're trying to do here OP.
If you're a total noob and don't know anything about defending vs. 6 pool, then a [Q] thread is appropriate, but as you've stated, you've read every other advice thread on 6 pool defense so I don't understand why you're looking for a repetition of the same advice?
A [H] thread with replay would be needed, we're not mind readers here because you're obviously doing something wrong but don't even know what that is yourself.
I have played a lot of zerg offrace and never felt like playing ZvZ, which is why I 6pooled with all drones or 7pooled every single game in zvz on ladder. There was a trend in the games I lost.
How to autowin 6 or 7pools (doesn't work vs 9pool) with 13/14 or 14/14:
1. Grab all your drones, run them outside of your base (click mineral of a base far away) 2. Wait until you have a lot of lings, send drones back, rape him
Make sure you don't lose the lings that just popped.
On October 11 2011 04:24 oZe wrote: I defeated a master 6 pooling when I 14 14'nd and I am only gold. Don't have replay. In essence what I do is move command pull back/surround depending on what he does, when queen and a few lings pop SAFE. He usually mineral far right or left if lings follow go other side and attack when you have surround. I heard some top pro say never fight in mineral line so I just dont.
Check Idras stream if you must have replay.
Thanks but I don't really understand what you're saying : /
drone drill, click all drones on to mineral patch far from where lings are coming, when they're all on, click mine on opposite mineral patch and right as they're moving towards lings attack move to surround as your first 4 lings are coming out, invest in some more lings because he all ined
Alright so I should wait for my lings before doing this ? If so, how do I preserve my drones until they arrive ? Usually, the lings arrive in my base right as my pool finishes.
do they continue the lings or just the initial 6?
I lose to everything really, but usually more lings are coming
As soon as you see the 6 pool, pull drones from gas but keep spending your larva on drones. Your scouting drone should look out for the exact timing the first 6 lings are moving out. Pull all drones in time, so you can fight the first wave of lings OFF creep (on top of your ramp). Its important you time this out well as you will want to keep mining as long as possible, to be able to afford a round of lings. Spread your drones a little in order to get a good sourround (you dont want to engange in a limbo line) and just attack move. Your ~17 drones will easily crush his 6 lings. If he builds a spine, attack with a few drones (3-4) and keep chasing the lings with the rest of the drones. Build 6 lings as soon as your pool is done..
Intercepting on top of the ramp, Interesting. Thanks for the advice.
I've lost to a 6pool with 14/14 which should actually be stronger vs 6pool than 13/14 (which isn't even a good build imo). I was a GM zerg last season, currently playing on a Random acct this season in rank 1 masters. To say "that's quite bad" is a bunch of bullshit. It happens. It's map dependent. You might get outmacroed by lings. The spine may get up. He may have pulled all 6 drones.
this is offtopic but my ZvZ opening is 13gas / 14 pool so I can start ling speed exactly when the pool is finished, and then mine 50 more gas, build a baneling nest and let 2 drones in gas. Full lings + baneling agression and expand after 1 or 2 rounds of lings.
The most common mistake I see is people trying to engage in the mineral line. DON'T do that. You will fight 3ish drones vs 3ish zerrglings and you will lose most, if not all of your workers. Even if you surround him(and rly, if you get your lings surrounded when 6pooling you deserve to lose, there isn't really much else to be looking at...) he can just take a few steps back and avoid that easily. A much better way of engageing is to fight him in the open. Pull ALL your drones and it should be 14-15 drones vs 6 zerglings. When his reinforcements arives your pool should be complete or at least close to be complete. with your won lings + queen you can simply overproduce him.
btw, if you opened gas, make sure you take your drones off gas the second you see him 6pool. If you gathered enough for speed you should prolly delay it a bit. Once you survive it's more or less GG anyways!
scouting in zvz is pretty fun, as you can expect overlords to meet in the middle, if no ovi is there its another start posi no reason to scout it (of course the other zerg can trick you, but thats hurting themself aswell.) So even on taldarim its pretty easy to determine the start position fairly easy.
As for the 6 pool, first of all a replay would help to sort out mistakes done by the op. spines shouldn't really be necessary against a 6 pool, whats important is to have the 3 larva and 150 (or 300 to get the queen also). The important thing is that all drones should attack the lings, if thats not the case do a mineral slide. But time is on your side, you don't even have to engage just wait till your lings are out and let them guard the mineral lines. (doing so lets the other one come back though, if they started drone production after 6 lings) If you want to engage with your drones, put them on a shortcut, select the damage ones and pull them off to mining. (you can also make sure they all have minerals so you just have to select the group select the drone getting damage and press return ressources)
PS: more fun is if you 6 pool and take some drones with you, if you noticed a blind spot of the opponent on the creep, you can sneak 1 spine crawler up on their creep, wait till the lings and other drones arrive and build one more. And hey i played human in wc3 i am allowed to love towerrushs.
I've lost to a 6pool with 14/14 which should actually be stronger vs 6pool than 13/14 (which isn't even a good build imo). I was a GM zerg last season, currently playing on a Random acct this season in rank 1 masters. To say "that's quite bad" is a bunch of bullshit. It happens. It's map dependent. You might get outmacroed by lings. The spine may get up. He may have pulled all 6 drones.
this is offtopic but my ZvZ opening is 13gas / 14 pool so I can start ling speed exactly when the pool is finished, and then mine 50 more gas, build a baneling nest and let 2 drones in gas. Full lings + baneling agression and expand after 1 or 2 rounds of lings.
You're doing something wrong. 14/14 gives you ling speed the second the pool is finished, not 13/14, which should give you an excess of 100 (slightly). Also, with this build, if you keep three drones on gas to build a baneling nest you should actually hit 50 gas before getting 100 minerals, assuming you built pure lings since along with a queen.
In short, your build is not optimal for what you're trying to accomplish. I suggest switching to 14/14, and this is coming from a former GM zerg who goes 14/14 into banes in about ~50% of my ZvZ.
Okay I got an experimental idea. Hear this out. Lings enter your base, and crawler gets thrown down--shit. Drone drill all your workers out. He responds correctly by killing your pool. When your pool finishes make as many lings as you can and a queen if you can afford it. If pool is about to die, engage as it dies, use workers, lings, and broodlings to clean up. If you can clean up i think your ahead: drone up and drop a pool when you can. Just an idea. ^o^
ThyHate, are you making sure to reposition your initial 2 overlords? Like your second overlord should be able to spot lings coming across the map if it is an early pool and you should be able to prepare to mineral walk with your drones to get up a spine or something, just be confident in yourself and don't lose too many drones early on, you have the advantage the longer the fight goes without either side losing or gaining an edge because you have more drones than he does.
On October 11 2011 06:35 FullAccess wrote: Okay I got an experimental idea. Hear this out. Lings enter your base, and crawler gets thrown down--shit. Drone drill all your workers out. He responds correctly by killing your pool. When your pool finishes make as many lings as you can and a queen if you can afford it. If pool is about to die, engage as it dies, use workers, lings, and broodlings to clean up. If you can clean up i think your ahead: drone up and drop a pool when you can. Just an idea. ^o^
The six pool is pretty easy. If it is just six zerglings, he is doing a retard check and a-moving your workers is a good idea. Mineral walking can be tricky and even pros occasionally mess it up and have their workers facing a literal wall of zerglings. A spine crawler in your mineral line helps with more potent methods. If he is trying to set up a spine crawler in your base, pull workers and kill both it and the drone, no matter what. That thing is a severe liability. One of the most important parts, though, is spreading your overlords. By the time those lings reach your base, it should be no surprise. You can even see how all-in it is and throw down spines accordingly.
On October 11 2011 04:51 Lazermonkey wrote: The most common mistake I see is people trying to engage in the mineral line. DON'T do that. You will fight 3ish drones vs 3ish zerrglings and you will lose most, if not all of your workers. Even if you surround him(and rly, if you get your lings surrounded when 6pooling you deserve to lose, there isn't really much else to be looking at...) he can just take a few steps back and avoid that easily. A much better way of engageing is to fight him in the open. Pull ALL your drones and it should be 14-15 drones vs 6 zerglings. When his reinforcements arives your pool should be complete or at least close to be complete. with your won lings + queen you can simply overproduce him.
btw, if you opened gas, make sure you take your drones off gas the second you see him 6pool. If you gathered enough for speed you should prolly delay it a bit. Once you survive it's more or less GG anyways!
Engaging in the mineral line is most optimal, most of the time. You simply try to mine as much as possible, and when he comes close, tell them to mine the furthest away patch, when they run to you, click the closest patch, if he tries to attack, then attack with insta-surround. If not, then you're buying time and it's better than in the open, and you can sneak extra mining in.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
maybe you should try giving him some micro tips rather than bashing on how below average he is
ok, do this build instead, it rapes 6 pool, and almost any other zerg fast aggro opener out there. drone til 10, double extractor trick, 2 more drones, cancel 1 gas, save for pool, 3 in gas til 88 gas, pull drones 1 at a time so u get 100 gas, get ling speed, 3 sets of lings, then a queen, then an ovie, then more lings if they are constant ling aggro, if you can't stop a 6 pool with this build i don't know what to say.
This build is god awful. Don't use it. Sure, it beats 6pool, but you might as well advise someone to merely go 10pool every game. At least that way they'll solidly beat 6pools and hatch first.
why would you 10 pool when you could get 2 extra drones and ling speed? sure you get your pool like...10 seconds sooner, but what difference is that goingto make when you have to run across the entire map
I actually posted a first person game of me defending the 6 pool (he was random as well) AND me scouting very late.
True, he doesn't build a spine, but good positioning is key. I find vs 6 pool with no spines is to just run your drones OFF creep. Lings lose a lot of their speed off creep and can barely catch drones, while you wait for your lings / queen to pop.
VS 6 pool with spine(s) is a bit more difficult. you basically need to mine as much as you can and if you can engage his lings with a concave (or surround) then do it, but sometimes waiting and building spines of your own helps more than engaging and losing tons of drones. it really depends on your placement and on his placement of the spine. hope this helps a bit.
I usually just lure them into the mineral line and used to drone stack thingy to surround.
BUT I always wait for my lings to pop too, regardless of whether or not he is attacking the pool;
The way LeetDooD didn't panic when his spawning pool was near imminent death was how to do it. Just build all the lings you can before it goes down and if you can squeeze a queen too all the better.
Funny how you couldn't understand what I said when like 3 people repeated it verbatim =) What I'm saying is SURROUND and or DELAY until you can overwhelm.
You do surround marines with lings, right? It's exactly the same.
On October 11 2011 05:02 the p00n wrote: I have played a lot of zerg offrace and never felt like playing ZvZ, which is why I 6pooled with all drones or 7pooled every single game in zvz on ladder. There was a trend in the games I lost.
How to autowin 6 or 7pools (doesn't work vs 9pool) with 13/14 or 14/14:
1. Grab all your drones, run them outside of your base (click mineral of a base far away) 2. Wait until you have a lot of lings, send drones back, rape him
Make sure you don't lose the lings that just popped.
I think this is typically great advice.
Those advocating "drone drill" I'm convinced have never actually faced 6 pool before or have only played a really awful 6 pooler.
If you 6 pool with 14/14 or something similar and try to defend for 20-25 seconds with a drone surround, not only will you lose 5-6 drones (possibly all if its a hard 6 pool), but you likely won't kill any lings at all.
Most people when they drone drill go from opposite sides of the mineral line, and when even with high latency I don't have any trouble out-microing this because it's so easy to time.
If you drone drill at all, you have to take center close patches or adjacent patches. This alone gives you the possibility of defending a good 6 pool with a drone drill.
Your goal also needs to be not killing off all the lings, but just killing one or two at a time with surrounds while waiting for your lings. Also, don't be afraid to drone hard if you don't see reinforcements. If it's only 6 early lings, you're much better off with 17-18 drones rather than 14.
Straight 6 pool is trivial to defeat. I'm not going to say anything that hasn't been said here. Just whatever you do, don't lose drones. If you have to run around, then do so. Eventually your lings will hatch and he'll have to keep his distance, and then his situation becomes more dire by the second. Don't even make a spine, just make a queen.
I don't care what anyone says, a competent spine crawler rush is hard to beat when you don't scout it. I've watched a lot of pros stream, and about the only technique they have in common is that after they lose, they accuse the other guy of being a newbie. While that could lead to lifelong psychological anguish, but doesn't solve the problem at hand.
My personal prefs, are if the spine is out on the edge of the creep out of range of mineral line, and you can't kill it before lings come, just let it complete. It can poke at my buildings for the next two minutes if it wants. When pool completes, build lings, build a spine, then a second spine in your mineral line. If he tries to move the spine forward too early a move him, and you'll damage his lings and spine, but then get out of the way. Eventually you'll have two spines, reasonable lings and a bunch of drones, just move the spines in range of his and a move, and then let the lings and spines do their jobs and you win.
But if he builds his spine right next to your hatch or in a pocket where it is in range of your mineral line, you have to kill it now. There's no alternative, if that thing gets up, you lose. Frankly I don't know how to win against that for sure. I do it once in awhile to other zergs and they only win if they scouted my pool and adjusted their build, or I majorly screw up. Sorry. I'd love to hear a better solution.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
i would like to face ur 13/14 then he has even less minerals because he builds the gas on 13 what is very early.
i crush alot of 13 straight pools with my 7pool allin so i doubt anyone could win me with 13/14 unless its a big map and crossed posi
Here is the build I usually do if I scout an early pool:
13 pool 18 gas 17 spine (in mineral line) 16 queen 18 overlord
Delay the attack as long as you can by running your drones around the mineral patch and try to get a surround. If he had pulled drones, make sure you engage OUTSIDE the mineral line. Once queen and spine are up you are good to go.
I held an 8 pool with 6 lings, and 6 drones and 2 spines with this yesterday. I can upload the replay later if you are really interested.
Edit: This is Destiny's method he taught on stream during the summer. It works well and you can just roach ling all in after that.
On October 12 2011 01:00 lhr0909 wrote: I held an 8 pool with 6 lings, and 6 drones and 2 spines with this yesterday. I can upload the replay later if you are really interested.
Watch DRG hold it off on TL attack, that is a really good replay of exactly what to do. He even dances his zerglings before the engagement because it is that easy.
On October 12 2011 01:00 lhr0909 wrote: I held an 8 pool with 6 lings, and 6 drones and 2 spines with this yesterday. I can upload the replay later if you are really interested.
I'd like to see that. What league are you?
I'm unsurprised by it. It's a 13-pool. A 14-pool _also_ demolishes early pools - the extra dozen seconds you get lings out, plus the lack of guys wasted on gas, is really nice.
One of the (many) advantage's to Nerchio's 14pool/15gas play.
Not the best micro from both players (yes, one of them is me), but here are a few things I've learned from losing to other 6 Pools, especially when you go for 14/14 and late scout a 6 Pool
a. Take Drones off Gas ASAP b. Delay the Spine for as long as possible c. Drone drilling > Ling micro in the mineral line d. Versus a 6 Pool with Spine, getting your own Spine is the tactic that requires the least micro to pull off
In this replay I went for Spine. The point of the Spine is to allow you to make enough units to bumrush your opponent without his Lings harassing your Drone line. I was only aggressive when his Spine was repositioning. Take what you want from the replay.
If you want a better example of how to hold off a 6 Pool, there was a game in the NASL where a Zerg 7 Pooled ?Ret? on Xel Naga Caverns and brought 2 Spines, and ?Ret? killed it with superb micro
Not the best micro from both players (yes, one of them is me), but here are a few things I've learned from losing to other 6 Pools, especially when you go for 14/14 and late scout a 6 Pool
a. Take Drones off Gas ASAP b. Delay the Spine for as long as possible c. Drone drilling > Ling micro in the mineral line d. Versus a 6 Pool with Spine, getting your own Spine is the tactic that requires the least micro to pull off
In this replay I went for Spine. The point of the Spine is to allow you to make enough units to bumrush your opponent without his Lings harassing your Drone line. I was only aggressive when his Spine was repositioning. Take what you want from the replay.
If you want a better example of how to hold off a 6 Pool, there was a game in the NASL where a Zerg 7 Pooled ?Ret? on Xel Naga Caverns and brought 2 Spines, and ?Ret? killed it with superb micro
This is an absolutely perfect example of how to drone drill.
For some reason it became common from somewhere some months ago that to "drone drill" you mineral walk opposite sides of the mineral line and that's just plain awful. What you do clicking nearby close patches is absolutely perfect.
Anyone looking for how to drone drill should definitely watch that, good vid.
It depends on which type of six pool. If they just build 6 lings and drone behind it then proper drone micro is enough to hold it off until your own lings come out. Provided you don't go something super greedy like 15 hatch 14 gas 16 pool.
If it is a drone-spine all-in 6 pool, you need to delay engaging as long as possible to get lings out with 3 drones targeting down the spine if possible
14/14 will get you your pool faster and finish speed at the same time. What you want to do is just pull your drones back to a single patch, if they overcommit the lings you go for a surround and just keep doing that until your pool pops make lings and a queen as fast as possible. Make sure to pull any drones mining gas onto minerals because those are going to be more important to fend off the attack.
I am gold zerg, played this game against platinum. Not the best game, I failed a lot, but you get the idea on how to do it and how to do it better than me :p
The most common mistake I see is people trying to engage in the mineral line. DON'T do that. You will fight 3ish drones vs 3ish zerrglings and you will lose most, if not all of your workers. Even if you surround him(and rly, if you get your lings surrounded when 6pooling you deserve to lose, there isn't really much else to be looking at...) he can just take a few steps back and avoid that easily. A much better way of engageing is to fight him in the open. Pull ALL your drones and it should be 14-15 drones vs 6 zerglings. When his reinforcements arives your pool should be complete or at least close to be complete. with your won lings + queen you can simply overproduce him.
btw, if you opened gas, make sure you take your drones off gas the second you see him 6pool. If you gathered enough for speed you should prolly delay it a bit. Once you survive it's more or less GG anyways!
Ok great. I should not build any spines then ?
I guess it all depends on the sitiation. But generally no. If he is building a spine it's very important not to let it finish, once it goes up, his army will be so much stronger. One spine means one less drone(+4 less lings+less mining, but that won't really affect your drone vs ling fight)and if your oponent goes for an agressive spine it will finish way before yours, and thus you will have a hard time moving your own spine foreward into a nice position.
If he didn't go for a spine, you should be fine just defending with drones anyway.
I recommend getting a friend and practicing with them 6-pooling you until you feel comfortable. Even if Zerg is an off race for them it is an easy build to learn and execute. There's nothing quite like kinetic learning for these sort of things.
Keep in mind that creep doesn't effect drone speed, ie: fighting lings off creep is preferable.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
On October 22 2011 18:53 ThyHate2 wrote: Hi again, OP here. Again I lost all my 6-7 pool todays.. Can someone explain me what I did wrong here ? : http://www.mediafire.com/?kvoh9fmuu6oua6f
Okey, I actually watched the replay. By the time he enters your base you have your pool up, which means he basically has 24 secounds before he has lost the game.But instead you delay your lings about 15 secs for no reason( you even had the money) and built a spine. That spine didn't rly do anything at all, was a waste of minerals, and one less drone. You also engage him in your mineral line. without your spine you would've had 16 drones, and by the time his second wave of lings enters your base your first SHOULD'VE poped if you trained them when your pool finished, which means that everytime he gets 2 extra lings, you also get 2 extra lings, but with better eco.
The important part is NOT to let his spine finish. if you do your in such a bad position and there really isn't a reason for you to let it finish. imagine you would've engaged him in the open it should be 16 drones vs 6 lings. That is a really easy win for you. Just engage with your drones in a Pacman formation . if he backs of, attack the spine. it doesn't even matter if he trades a few lings for some drones because you already have 10(!) more then him. So you can even afford to lose 9 drones and still be ahead.
Something that helps, if you have trouble, is to pull all your drones to the top of the ramp before he comes into your base and hold that position with a better concave.
The "drone drill" technique is meant to delay, threatening a surround until your lings come out. The problem is that with the spine variants you can't really delay, and your opponent chooses the position where you'll be forced to engage.
Despite all the bashing, an early pool can be very hard to hold. Good micro is not enough if your opponent has better micro, and as with all sc2, the actual engagement lasts a couple seconds and the outcome can be vastly different depending on tiny positional differences.
Try to force an engagement at the top of your ramp, or otherwise in open space, where your superior numbers are hard to overcome. It's not the optimal way but it's the easiest.
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
You should be able to defend with drones most of the time while pool finishes. If you cant have a friend 6pool you and practice microing low hp drones.
On October 22 2011 22:28 Thebbeuttiffulland wrote: i build spawn crawle in my mainr at the beginning of every game its really like free win vs 6 pool
14/14 your pool isnt finished by the time the lings show up to your base so how in the world do you magically have a spine crawler..? This isnt how do i hold off 6 pool with a 9 pool.
The way I was taught to defend a 6 pool is as soon as you scout it, start your pool, after that make a crawler. If it doesnt finish before the first 6 lings get there, those lings should go straight for your drones. When they do, take all your drones and click on the mineral patch closest to your spawning pool. all the drones should stack onto that patch for a brief moment. Then click on the farthest mineral patch on the other side. The drones should pass over the zerglings for a brief moment. As soon as they do, attack move somewhere other than the zerglings, do it somewhere like behind the minerals. The drones should spread out and surround the zerglings. If you have been droning well up until the point that the zerglings get there, you should have no problem beating the initial attack. After which, you should make spine crawlers in your base, assuming the zerglings didn't kill off your spawning pool. After that, the enemy should have no way to transition out of a 6 pool unless he bakes a shit ton more zerglings and keeps trying to attack, but spine crawlers should be able to take care of that. If he doesn't attack, you need to scout and prepare for whatever he tries next. Mutalisks are a very common transition after a 6 pool.
On October 21 2011 01:36 SnoeAUS wrote: I recommend getting a friend and practicing with them 6-pooling you until you feel comfortable. Even if Zerg is an off race for them it is an easy build to learn and execute. There's nothing quite like kinetic learning for these sort of things.
Keep in mind that creep doesn't effect drone speed, ie: fighting lings off creep is preferable.
THIS. Practice. I used to have a horrible time with it until I just asked my friend to practice like 20 games really quick with me... and do it on a small map like xel naga and dont' react until you noramlly would see it ingame (it when your overlord scouts the ling trail)
On October 11 2011 03:51 ThyHate wrote: So yeah, everyone right now is facepalming thinking "not this thread again" But I DID read most of the thread about it. I tried all the advices, I tried fighting with drones with mineral patch micro / running until the lings arrive / building spines.
Whether it's with drones pulled + 1 spine, or no drones + 2 spines, or no drones nor spine, I just lose.
All I am asking is a replay of someone defending it, when the 6 pool was scouted very late. because all the replays I find right now either don't work anymore, or the 6 pool is scooted very early.
(I always 13gas 14pool , I'm diamond rank1 playing masters)
Thanks in advance..
no offense but if you can't hold off a 6 pool with a 13g 14 pool that's quite bad. i seriously think your micro is far below average if you aren't able to hold this type of aggression off, after all it's only 6 lings and you have 14ish drones...
User was warned for this post
wow!!!! he seriously got temp banned for this???
He knows an aspect of his play is bad. He is here for help, assistance and suggestions on how to improve - not to be told that he is bad. TheLastGoose's post serves no purpose other than to attempt to offend/patronise the OP. Imagine for a second if ALL replies in every strategy thread were: "Lol, you're having problems with -X- ?? That's quite bad, you must be far below average lol".
On October 11 2011 05:05 ThyHate wrote: this is offtopic but my ZvZ opening is 13gas / 14 pool so I can start ling speed exactly when the pool is finished, and then mine 50 more gas, build a baneling nest and let 2 drones in gas. Full lings + baneling agression and expand after 1 or 2 rounds of lings.
If interested I will include a replay when I get home ...
Have you tried: 9 overlord, 11 pool, 11 gas, drone to 14, queen, overlord, drone (17 / 18 supply at this point) ?
It's a really aggressive opening, normally into banelings, which gives you slightly earlier queen (and therefore more zerglings), with same speed on zergling speed and banelings as 14 / 14 basically (a few moments earlier).
And it's 100% safe vs 6-10 pools due to the earlier pool.
(if not interested, I won't bother with a replay, but I find this build extremely good if you are planning on being aggressive, especially with banelings).
I also struggled with well executed 6 pools at the masters level, and decided to ignore the problem by either doing this, or going 15 hatch and living with the losses
Diamond Zerg here. On a similar vein I've been doing:
10 pool 10 gas 10 OL 6x lings (13/18) Queen (15/18) Metabolic boost (remove drones from gas at 100) 3x drones (18/18) (rally the 2nd and 3rd drones back into gas) Overlord Extractor trick drone (19/18) ZERGLINGS Baneling nest @50 gas
The timings all work out really nicely so that speed finishes right when your first inject zerglings are hatching, and the baneling nest finishes just when those zerglings should be reaching your opponent's base (you can morph 3 banelings straight away). And, relevant to this discussion, it does exceedingly well against 6/7 pools both in your defense and your subsequent aggression.
But I'm just Diamond, so perhaps it's terrible for one reason or another? I might make a thread focused on discussion/comparison of these earlyish pools....
Not the best micro from both players (yes, one of them is me), but here are a few things I've learned from losing to other 6 Pools, especially when you go for 14/14 and late scout a 6 Pool
a. Take Drones off Gas ASAP b. Delay the Spine for as long as possible c. Drone drilling > Ling micro in the mineral line d. Versus a 6 Pool with Spine, getting your own Spine is the tactic that requires the least micro to pull off
In this replay I went for Spine. The point of the Spine is to allow you to make enough units to bumrush your opponent without his Lings harassing your Drone line. I was only aggressive when his Spine was repositioning. Take what you want from the replay.
If you want a better example of how to hold off a 6 Pool, there was a game in the NASL where a Zerg 7 Pooled ?Ret? on Xel Naga Caverns and brought 2 Spines, and ?Ret? killed it with superb micro
As much as I'd like to say that was a great hold, (and it kind of was, considering you didn't scout the spine till it was already done...) that was the worst 6pool of all time... who gets a spine up then leaves it out of range while they suicide their lings into a mineral line?
EPT
