• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:51
CEST 04:51
KST 11:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence9Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence ASL20 General Discussion Diplomacy, Cosmonarchy Edition BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1202 users

[H] Need with with silver/gold ZvP Vs FFE

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-03 20:46:47
October 03 2011 20:34 GMT
#1
I'm just completely at a loss at this point. I haven't won against a competent FFE in ages. Either I try to crack them with a roach all-in and fail miserably, I get killed by their 2 base deathball, or I hold off the deathball but can't stop them taking a 3rd and can't get a good engage on their army.

http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Hubtscheff_vs_(Z)Tamerlane/14156

8:00/9:00 or so
In this game I atleast avoided my old mistake of stopping drones at 25 and trying to crack his defence. But I still slowed my droning rate after seeing that core and 4 gates going up with my overlord. I guess I should have kept going a bit longer, but I still find it hard to judge how much of a force he's built up.
19:00 I've actually got a maxed army and a 40 food lead but I've no idea how to engage protoss, if I should engage him at all.
From then on he takes his 3rd and I keep throwing roach or roach/corrupter armies at him with little success.
So apart from general replay analysis
-how do I better judge when to stop droning vs FFE?
-should I attack as soon as I'm maxed or get some upgrades first?
-how should I have engaged protoss where his army was at 19:50? IE with the colossi at the cliff east of the Watchtower right beside where he ends up getting his 3rd.
-any other tips would be appreciated. I know I should be stockpiling my larvae more so I can remax faster but its not much use if I keep throwing armies away like that.

Edit : If a mod could fix the thread title typo that'd be great. Don't post right after a 6 game losing streak I guess.
Orangu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada198 Posts
October 04 2011 19:06 GMT
#2
Hey, so couple things i noticed. the main one is you need to work on your macro, specifically injecting. you let your queen get over 25 energy after the very first inject, that is absolutely terribly because it slows everything down, you were floating money and had less food than you should have only 5 mins into the game. towards the end you were floating 5k like 2k and all your queens had full energy, make macro hatches if you need to but make sure your hitting those injects, Z hinges on it.

Near the beginning you scouted the FFE and still got about 10 lings, you only need 2 or 4 rest should have been drones, might not seem like much but those 3 drones that early does make a difference, especially when those lings are literally not doing anything for another several minutes.

You scouted the gateways and made an army which is good, although you actually didn't need to as early as you did since his WG wasn't even finished yet, was prob a mistake on his part to start WG so late so not a big deal but something to keep in mind.

After this tho you didn't scout again for another 5 minutes. If you see a bunch of gates, and he doesn't push out within a min or 2 then you need to rescout because it means he might have tech switched, like the P did in this game.

You scouted at about 7-8 mins, assuming you re scout at about 10, you would have had 9 minutes to yourself, as he didn't leave his base until 19 mins into the game. You need to be macroing and teching during that time. Then once he does leave you essentially need to either have hive tech up or about to get up, BL's are usually the best bet at least at first, or to continually exchange lair tech armies with the P and try and work em down. Against 3+ colo you need about 10 corruptors and scale up to like 16 if he gets like 5+ colo. i find rest roach infestor ling to be good and add on hydras once colo are killed. Trading armys tho means you need to keep up on larvae injects and macro hatches cause you need to be continously remaxing during every fight.

AS to engagements, corruptors should be put over cliffs or high grounds and try to pick at the sides of the colo lines, while your main army essentially dances around colo range, you are mainly trying to protect your corruptors so they can kill the colo so the rest of your army can kill his. You main army is going to get destroyed while you kill the colo, but then after the remax without his colo you can then start to win the fights.

Hope some of this helps.
THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY!
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
October 04 2011 19:18 GMT
#3
Very helpful, thank you. I'll probably have the hardest time getting the macro improvements in but I'll see what I can do.
So, scout again with an overseer if he turtles in his base too long just to check what he's doing, sound's good. I remember I didn't really have enough corruptors, so basically I should bring 3 per colossus. I also didn't know how to use them right, guess I'll need them on a seperate control group next time I'll be quite honest in saying I doubt I'll be able to manage infestors+corruptors, but I'll definitely try and mix in some lings.
If I can do a bit better on the engagements and have better lategame injects hopefully I can wear him down if this comes up again. I did have the mineral income to sustain it I think.
GAFFELTRUCK
Profile Joined April 2011
13 Posts
November 21 2011 16:18 GMT
#4
A one base 7-roach is very hard to hold off when FFE, Get speed for lings and if your attack doesn't kill you opponent, he'll be crippled for a long time focus down the cybercore as by the time you arrive at his base warpgate should still be researching. If there is a sweetspot for your roaches to kill the nexus. You might also be able to snipe the forge .
After this attack the game is yours to win, take a second and a third (assuming your roach-ling didn't end the game) tech to lair and just get a suitable army
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-22 18:21:35
November 22 2011 18:20 GMT
#5
Hello,

I did a little video analysis on this game.

I think the largest thing centers around just expanding continuously and trying to engage the Turtle more wisely.



EnderSword Bronze/Silver/Gold Analysis Channel
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
knp
Profile Joined November 2011
United States3 Posts
November 23 2011 01:38 GMT
#6
I've been playing Super Mario Bros for years. All you need to do to defeat the turtle is jump on it's shell, then kick it when its down. They always go flying out of the game without a word.

It may require some decent micro, but it has great effect. Timing is everything.

Watch these replays of The Attack Hatch:
http://thegamespage.com/staff/knp/sc2replays/

Don't be complacent Protoss players.
http://www.thegamespage.com/staff/knp/sc2replays/
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
November 23 2011 15:19 GMT
#7
Bounce on their Turtle shell over and over too for infinite 1Ups!

But ya, take advantage of the fact that the turtle can't really move. Don't fully engage, just hit the shell a bit
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#49
SteadfastSC301
EnkiAlexander 90
davetesta40
Liquipedia
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft343
SteadfastSC 301
Nina 200
RuFF_SC2 149
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 34
Noble 29
Icarus 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever733
NeuroSwarm99
LuMiX2
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 149
semphis_32
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King23
Other Games
summit1g5535
shahzam964
C9.Mang0309
ViBE168
Maynarde148
XaKoH 93
Trikslyr48
kaitlyn27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick767
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush601
• Stunt202
• Lourlo91
Other Games
• Scarra1371
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
8h 9m
OSC
16h 9m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
1d 10h
RSL Revival
2 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.