EPT[G] Mothership/6gate - Page 3
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
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WarpTV
205 Posts
Zergs T3 can't attack them. Carriers + stalker + HT/storm can engage a Zerg infester/BL/ultra army every easily. It forces Zerg to down tech to Corrupter/hydra, and Strom Stalker deals well with that. Now The issue is that, Before you have time to get Carriers you must be able to Defend the zerg Death ball for the time it takes to tech to and build the Carriers, And if you can do that then you can most likely kill the zerg with out needing to tech to carriers in the first place. | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On October 03 2011 07:01 Infleto wrote: Infester's can't do much to carriers, NP dose not last long enough for one carrier to dps through the shields of a another and with NP at range 7 (lol) carriers will auto snip the casting infester. Zergs T3 can't attack them. Carriers + stalker + HT/storm can engage a Zerg infester/BL/ultra army every easily. It forces Zerg to down tech to Corrupter/hydra, and Strom Stalker deals well with that. Now The issue is that, Before you have time to get Carriers you must be able to Defend the zerg Death ball for the time it takes to tech to and build the Carriers, And if you can do that then you can most likely kill the zerg with out needing to tech to carriers in the first place. Or you can buy time by harassing with double/triple prism action.. Jesus man, seriously i hate this anti-carrier attitude "JUST" because of the fricking build time.. I'm sure its one of those things we will laugh at as the time goes by and saying "oh Jesus how could we be so blind and dumb not to see how this is supposed to work" you know that kind of thing.. Momma ship didn't even need the buff its just people that are rather complaining to blizzard than using skill like brood war shuttle control was.. But whatever, hate Carriers and then scratch on your head when someone pulled it off - it is slow and painful route of improving when you're close-minded. I'm speaking in general now so no offense to you bro  | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10361 Posts
On October 03 2011 02:45 Plexa wrote: I agree. By doing this you are banking on hurting his economy to make up for the late third. It's no different than a blink stalker timing... except a few minutes later  Motherships have always been good PvZ. I mentioned this when describing the optimal lategame scenario for protoss (I think that was pre-deathball craze too). Kiwikaki has demonstrated time and time again that Motherships are effective units as well. With that said, Motherships make Protoss armies anywhere from 1.5 to 2 times stronger than they would otherwise be - colossus + mship // ht + mship is way better than gateway units + mship I do remember kiwikaki and huk using the mothership quite a lot to great effect, but i haven't seen much of it lately  Maybe I just need to watch more. I hope they will pick it back up after this buff :D | ||
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Tiamat
United States498 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14028 Posts
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
.thanks! | ||
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Jomer
United States32 Posts
On October 03 2011 07:31 YosHGo wrote: Or you can buy time by harassing with double/triple prism action.. Jesus man, seriously i hate this anti-carrier attitude "JUST" because of the fricking build time.. I'm sure its one of those things we will laugh at as the time goes by and saying "oh Jesus how could we be so blind and dumb not to see how this is supposed to work" you know that kind of thing.. Momma ship didn't even need the buff its just people that are rather complaining to blizzard than using skill like brood war shuttle control was.. But whatever, hate Carriers and then scratch on your head when someone pulled it off - it is slow and painful route of improving when you're close-minded. I'm speaking in general now so no offense to you bro I am not saying you're wrong. What I will say is that carriers don't pass the smell test. It is conventional wisdom that poo-poos carriers, for a reason. We have, and I do mean ALL of us have, tried to make carriers work - and failed. Clearly nobody has made any breakthroughs. It doesn't require multiple GSL tosses to demonstrate that they can be an answer to something - but one would be 'nice'. Putting one out that an opponent can anticipate and yet still get good mileage out of it is probably going to require a buff in SC2. | ||
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BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 03 2011 07:46 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I do remember kiwikaki and huk using the mothership quite a lot to great effect, but i haven't seen much of it lately Maybe I just need to watch more. I hope they will pick it back up after this buff :DIt was kinda a fad. I suspect you'll see it come and go every time Protosses runs out of ideas until someone figures out the situation where the mothership is useful and there becomes a canonical usage for it like Queens in BW TvZ. And then I'm sure it'll get nerfed to oblivion... | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On October 03 2011 06:40 darkscream wrote: This guide is much better than the other one, Yep, but I have updated my guide to make it more structured and readable (drunk + tired + typing in foreign language doesn't mix well). Also, our builds are very different, they just use the same unit. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 03 2011 05:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote: I think I work in +1 and sometimes +2, its mostly up to you as what I've written is just a skeleton. It all depends on the gas!I haven't watched the replays but just something quick that I didn't pick up on in your post: Is this attack designed to kill the third base of Zerg then head home and defend your third? Or just outright kill them similar to standard 6 gate? Sorry if this was already answered On October 03 2011 06:22 TolEranceNA wrote: Nope. This strategy is hard countered by anything hydralisk heavy. Plus they are super expensive T_T. Essentially, for 400/400 you get to make your army nearly twice as good. Plexa, would you consider Mothership being "borderline" OP or just extremely good? Because i just got my ass handed to me due to this On October 03 2011 06:25 Anihc wrote: Interesting. I'm not completely convinced so you'll have to send me a rep or two some time You can instantly sink 200 gas into mass archons which die to infestor/bl. There's no versatile and effective way to deal with infestor/corruptor/bl with only protoss ground. I used to think mothership+archon was enough, until I met zergs who weren't dumb and actually micro/position their deathball. Void rays are nice but get countered too hard by infestors. That leaves carriers... which actually work amazingly well. My reservations are that they take forever to build and corruptors (with upgrades) should tear them to shreds.On October 03 2011 06:32 DeepElemBlues wrote: ive been seeing a lot of protosses on streams use this instead to recall into the zergs main instead of attacking the third and pretty much winning the game outright 95%+ of the time still as a zerg this is scary for sure Don't know why you would do that if you get blink because you can just blink into their main. Although I did use recall against a 2 base hydra/roach drop all in haha.On October 03 2011 06:40 darkscream wrote: Both guides hit on the same points. I don't know whether either will become standard but the point is that motherships can be useful early midgame PvZ. Working out how to incorporate motherships properly will become apparent over time. This guide is much better than the other one, I'll enjoy watching these replays. Thanks, good work! On October 03 2011 09:05 sermokala wrote: Vortex if you can. Otherwise keep it positioned so that most of your units are covered. Other than that, you try to keep it alive. It's not a great attacking unit - it's just there for support.Could you comment what you do with the mother ship in a battle? other then clock positional business while blinking with the stalkers? I've loved the idea of this attack but I don't know what to do with the big thing. On October 03 2011 10:19 BinxyBrown wrote: After reviewing your replays and some theory crafting I have decided that this build should not be that effective even with only minimal scouting, once I as a Zerg see a mothership the obvious response is to go hydraling with several overseers and try to win the game while taking a third and denying yours using overlord poops. You are correct with your response, however if I see you teching hydras to defend I won't go through with the attack because I know I'll lose. Instead I would try to get my third up (assuming you have yours) and get colossus asap - and if you've made as many units as I think you should have, it should be even. I don't think its a won or lost game by either side. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On October 03 2011 11:19 Plexa wrote: Interesting. I'm not completely convinced so you'll have to send me a rep or two some time My reservations are that they take forever to build and corruptors (with upgrades) should tear them to shreds.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267259 | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
I do think the mothership needs more use late game PvZ. Whenever I play a long macro game PvZ I always wonder why my opponent doesn't have a mothership. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 03 2011 11:40 Flonomenalz wrote: I've already said that if the zerg does some weird all in I'm dead. The point of the build is to play the metagame and get the zerg into his standard anti-Stargate play, make a ton a drones, then realise he's got problems. Baxter is a good Zerg and he admitted that he only held it because he scouted the beacon.Um... I like this, but to be fair your opponents were REALLY bad. There's literally a 2 minute window where you can just die to any all in. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Redjak
United States2 Posts
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Noorgrin
Germany116 Posts
but hands down, i gotta say this is really a nice tactic, gonna try to do it more often in PvZ... maybe it's a good way to get to carriers in the lategame! | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 04 2011 02:10 Noorgrin wrote: tried it 3 times today on Ladder in PvZ (high Diamond EU), won 2 out of the 3 games, unfortunately it was the 2 games the Zerg wemt for Hydras cause of my voidray doing harrass. The game i lost the Zerg went almost roach only and simply crushed my whole ground army, ignoring my mothership and ran in my base. but hands down, i gotta say this is really a nice tactic, gonna try to do it more often in PvZ... maybe it's a good way to get to carriers in the lategame! That's quite weird I would have expected the opposite - struggle vs hydras and win vs roach. I'd be interested in the replays if you want to share them. | ||
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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