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One potential I have seen for the Carrier is actually because of the build time. Due to its build time it is much less intensive in Min and Gas/sec as say a Collosus (Meaning keeping the stargate always producing carriers is < that of Robo always producing Collosus). Carrier = 2.9 Min/sec and 2.1 Gas/sec + 100 Minerals after creation for interceptors compaired to a Collosus which is 3.9 Min/sec and 2.6 Gas/sec. This to me is a way to to use your most likely dormant Stargate to produce a powerful, well rounded unit. (assuming you opened stargate -> Mothership like or just stargate and put down fleet beacon because of hydra transition) This gives extra resources to get other tech/more gateway army to support your carrier during its creation time.
This is following the same logic of keeping warpgates dormant while adding on more warpgates due to them being able to produce so quickly, yet in reverse. If there is a threat of an attack you can easily choose to cancel the current carrier in production and go into mass crono warpgate production to quickly re-enforce when it is needed.
The OP's build gives a very good way to get to that point. Would love to know if anyone sees a major flaw in this other than, they go corrupter. Which you could say about collosus as well. Which imo carriers are not countered as hard by corrupter's (More health/can attack air) Less Min/Gas intensive = more stalkers.
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Canada13402 Posts
This is a cool build to mix in. Used it twice today lost once because I somehow cancelled the mothership at one point. Even then I did OK to take out a third base.
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intense. i wanna see this go towards carriers in zvp. i really want to see them used so we can finally see protoss's full potential. and i wanna play against them because they're coold :D
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Going to try it. I don't even care how viable it is, it's just too badass not to use.
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A Mothership can be mind-controlled, and the zerg could use it to vortex the protoss army. Not sure I believe that the Mothership can be a viable build.
Now it also seems silly that Infestors can neural parasite a Mothership, but that's a different point for a different thread.
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Finally protoss start experimenting with their air units, like warp prism.
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Plexa I always love your Build Order threads. Just watched the first rep and yeah Hydras do break this pretty well... It does look like carriers could be viable though! Pretty excited to try this out myself, good stuff brotha!
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 04 2011 13:41 NET wrote:
Plexa I always love your Build Order threads. Just watched the first rep and yeah Hydras do break this pretty well... It does look like carriers could be viable though! Pretty excited to try this out myself, good stuff brotha!
I think if you scout hydra transitioning into something akin to p00n's build would be your best bet.
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another way for this build is to clear the way for the mothership to the zerg mainbase with overlordhunting and clear the zelnagas.fly the mothership to the zergbase and massrecall at this time you should have around 150 food with +2 , 2-3 carrier depending on how you spend your chronos and 8-10 warpgates and can build your 3 (12.30-14 min).most zerg will try to defend their mainbase and thats a straight loss if you can micro your mothership and snipe their overseer
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wrong button pls delete this ^^
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I saw that game versus Baxter on Antiga. Why no colossus? The HT centered compositions really make for more entertaining games (imo) but it just seems like colossus under a mothership is so rediculously strong in my experience (I see Kiwi do it a bit, actually)
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On October 04 2011 02:26 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 02:10 Noorgrin wrote:
tried it 3 times today on Ladder in PvZ (high Diamond EU), won 2 out of the 3 games, unfortunately it was the 2 games the Zerg wemt for Hydras cause of my voidray doing harrass. The game i lost the Zerg went almost roach only and simply crushed my whole ground army, ignoring my mothership and ran in my base.
but hands down, i gotta say this is really a nice tactic, gonna try to do it more often in PvZ... maybe it's a good way to get to carriers in the lategame! That's quite weird  I would have expected the opposite - struggle vs hydras and win vs roach. I'd be interested in the replays if you want to share them.
well, they are not really upload worthy, i just rewatched all 3 matches... i think i won because the Zerg players were just really bad (2k overmins), not for any tactical reason... might be the problem cause i am just diamond ^^
and the game i lost ... well that was my first game trying it, i missed to build the voidray, it was Xel'Naga so i did 3 gate expand and got my expo quite late... he simply out-macro'd me by the time i attacked...
2nd time i played on Xel'Naga i did a 1gate,stargate expand, which was ofc quite risky, but i was able to attack almost 2 minutes earlier + he did alot of spores and extra queen cause of the voidray
and well for the 3rd map, it was Antigua or something, were i was able to play a forge expand... everything else went like in match 2 basically
But both times i won, the opponents had pretty bad macro :/
but i will definitly continue playing it in PvZ, will keep you up-to-date about my advances :D
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I saw that game versus Baxter on Antiga. Why no colossus? The HT centered compositions really make for more entertaining games (imo) but it just seems like colossus under a mothership is so rediculously strong in my experience (I see Kiwi do it a bit, actually)
one big advantage of HTs in this comp is that the protection of the Mothership means you can only reliably get storms off, morphing Archons afterwards is doable as well, and we all know how nasty Archon+Mothership is.
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On October 04 2011 07:41 Demx wrote:
One potential I have seen for the Carrier is actually because of the build time. Due to its build time it is much less intensive in Min and Gas/sec as say a Collosus (Meaning keeping the stargate always producing carriers is < that of Robo always producing Collosus). Carrier = 2.9 Min/sec and 2.1 Gas/sec + 100 Minerals after creation for interceptors compaired to a Collosus which is 3.9 Min/sec and 2.6 Gas/sec. This to me is a way to to use your most likely dormant Stargate to produce a powerful, well rounded unit. (assuming you opened stargate -> Mothership like or just stargate and put down fleet beacon because of hydra transition) This gives extra resources to get other tech/more gateway army to support your carrier during its creation time.
This is following the same logic of keeping warpgates dormant while adding on more warpgates due to them being able to produce so quickly, yet in reverse. If there is a threat of an attack you can easily choose to cancel the current carrier in production and go into mass crono warpgate production to quickly re-enforce when it is needed.
The OP's build gives a very good way to get to that point. Would love to know if anyone sees a major flaw in this other than, they go corrupter. Which you could say about collosus as well. Which imo carriers are not countered as hard by corrupter's (More health/can attack air) Less Min/Gas intensive = more stalkers.
Q: What in PvZ is the carrier good against?
A: Broodlords. End of list.
Q: Will Z have broodlords at the time of your attack?
A: No.
Q: Why would you make carriers?
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Hey! You posted our game lol. <3
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Also: this build is great. Highly recommend to change up your play style. Plexa innovating as always.
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On October 05 2011 01:39 kcdc wrote:
Q: Why would you make carriers?
Because someone has to. Someone has to make Idra rage at Carriers in SC2.
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So uhh, just tried this out. Why are you revealing your starport tech? The zerg instantly pops down hydra den and spire then has a million corrupters waiting to shit on you :<
Replay. Platinum/Diamond players, I know, but I was hoping this would work for someone just coming back to the game after a looooong hiatus from actually playing. I mean if you look at the replay I was macroing so much better than him.
Avg unspent resources: me 815, him 2187
Resource Collection Rate: me 1547, him 2099
Look over the replay, I'm pretty sure I dropped gateways too early and the mothership came out slightly later as a result (not too much later but maybe you'll think that's my achilles heel in this replay)
The replay in question. I just feel like if I'm macroing that much better than my opponent with my regular FFE into collosi then I walk over him... so why use this strat?
http://www.mediafire.com/?7r35aee877gfj2v
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How important to you think it is to open FE if you're going to transition into mothership? Could I, for example, do it on a 3 gate expand or a 2 gate stargate or would the moma come out too late?
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On October 03 2011 10:46 the p00n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 06:40 darkscream wrote:
This guide is much better than the other one, Yep, but I have updated my guide to make it more structured and readable (drunk + tired + typing in foreign language doesn't mix well). Also, our builds are very different, they just use the same unit.
Both guides are great! Thanks to both of you for the threads... and that replay of Plexa vs the Opal(?) guy talking about motherships at the onset of the game was priceless. 
I've been playing with motherships and carriers (on certain maps) PvZ, and it definitely seems there is potential somewhere in there. Fun stuff!
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EPT
