EPTWhat are your thoughts on switching to zealot/archon lategame, as I don't see you do this in your games? I think it would make vortex much more effective.
[G] Mothership/6gate - Page 2
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
What are your thoughts on switching to zealot/archon lategame, as I don't see you do this in your games? I think it would make vortex much more effective. | ||
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rawb
United States252 Posts
On October 03 2011 02:38 Plexa wrote: Most of this was done pre-patch. There was a simple trick to making motherships less bad when they had poor acceleration. That was to keep motherships hotkeyed separately, and after moving everything to a location you make the mothership patrol so it never decelerates. Not so useful post-patch though  shuttle flashbacks <3 Looks like a really fun build, going to try it out once I finish this homework! | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 03 2011 04:17 FortyOzs wrote: Nope. Carriers are bad in every way in their current formPvZ is getting closer and closer to Carriers, it better happen. Do you think it's viable after you take your 3rd? On October 03 2011 04:19 the p00n wrote: I'm not a fan of Zealots vs Zerg. Mostly because Brood Lords scare the shit out of me - I'd rather have stalkers to deal with them and if they switch to ultras then I'll make Zealots. Zealots are good for sniping buildings via prisms too. Archons are excellent units though You use vortex in a different way, kind of like a way to neutralize their army for 20 seconds while all your units have a field day, to kill the 3rd and then back off. You can't really throw your stalkers inside (which is your unit of choice) because vortex does not really benefit them. What are your thoughts on switching to zealot/archon lategame, as I don't see you do this in your games? I think it would make vortex much more effective. I like adding them into any mix. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On October 03 2011 04:17 FortyOzs wrote: PvZ is getting closer and closer to Carriers, it better happen. Do you think it's viable after you take your 3rd? It's not going to happen. And by the time you take your third, most zergs will have a spire and 3-4 bases, and be very easily be able to pump out corrupters. | ||
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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
On October 03 2011 04:28 Plexa wrote: Nope. Carriers are bad in every way in their current form I'm not a fan of Zealots vs Zerg. Mostly because Brood Lords scare the shit out of me - I'd rather have stalkers to deal with them and if they switch to ultras then I'll make Zealots. Zealots are good for sniping buildings via prisms too. Archons are excellent units though I like adding them into any mix.A good protoss would be able to use hallucinations to exactly know when the greater spire is up so I don't think that should be a thing to worry about. Stalkers are so gas intensive and zealots are just as strong as stalkers in most battles. Especially as with +1 attack they 2hit lings. | ||
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Eiki
Norway22 Posts
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On October 03 2011 04:53 HoMM wrote: A good protoss would be able to use hallucinations to exactly know when the greater spire is up so I don't think that should be a thing to worry about. Stalkers are so gas intensive and zealots are just as strong as stalkers in most battles. Especially as with +1 attack they 2hit lings. I have to disagree here. Zealots in PvZ can be very good in certain situations and vs certain unit compositions (ling heavy etc), especially since you are always gas starved anyways. However, if the zerg goes for a roach-hydra ball or roach-infestor-broodlord etc zealots just don't do anything useful for you. Basically Protoss doesn't have the perfect cost efficient meatshield like zergs have with roaches (who do about the same dps/hp with max ups but are ranged, faster and have burrow) but protoss have something called sentries with ff, preventing units from closing the gap to the higher ranged protoss units. It's much better to just use ff and blink back hurt stalkers than having zealots who get in range of his units that otherwise wouldn't even be able to shoot at them. The exception to that is if you just have only minerals left and need to make some units or like mentioned above the zerg is running a unit comp where adding zealots is really beneficial. The closer you are approaching the 200/200 mark, the less (best case no zealots at all) you want to have. The same thing goes on with stalkers, you want to have less stalkers and more voids/archons/hts etc etc. As long as the zerg is not spamming fg over your whole army preventing blinking or using tons of lings or even ultras where zealots are sufficient tanks, I think it's better to just add more gates/canons/nexi etc with the minerals or do prism-zealot-warpins to snipe hatcheries/tech. Stalkers are not always best, but are mostly useful in pvz if you are not sure what the opponent is up to, zealots are not. :-) PS: I love zealots though, I try to employ them way more than other protoss I know into my army/gameplay. | ||
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
Sorry if this was already answered | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
 Nontheless will check out the replays ^^ | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On October 03 2011 04:28 Plexa wrote: Nope. Carriers are bad in every way in their current form I disagree :p carriers are really good late game PvZ. You'll probably want even more than 3 bases and at least a fairly strong army (i.e. not gateway only) before transitioning to them though. | ||
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Swagtacular
United States101 Posts
I've also been trying mothership play against zerg. I've found mass recalling your army along with 1 or 2 probes to make pylons and then vortexing/force fielding the ramp while you kill all the tech structures is better than engaging straight up. Killing the spawning pool/roach warren before they reenforce enough while you use pylons to reenforce your army is devastating. Or as soon as your mothership mass recalls have it run back to your main (mainly on close air maps) to mass recall you army back (after killing zerg tech). | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
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Swagtacular
United States101 Posts
On October 03 2011 05:40 Anihc wrote: I disagree :p carriers are really good late game PvZ. You'll probably want even more than 3 bases and at least a fairly strong army (i.e. not gateway only) before transitioning to them though. i agree. I havent found a composition from zerg that can beat colo archon carrier (if the armies have the same supply/upgrades). But this comp is really difficult to get to. | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On October 03 2011 05:40 Anihc wrote: I disagree :p carriers are really good late game PvZ. You'll probably want even more than 3 bases and at least a fairly strong army (i.e. not gateway only) before transitioning to them though. Carriers take a while to get up though (isn't it like 120 seconds? I actually don't even know, I know BCs are 90s and that carriers were longer). When you can instantly sink 2000 gas into mass archons or invest it in something you're not gonna get anytime soon... well... the choice is usually made pretty quickly. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On October 03 2011 05:58 the p00n wrote: Carriers take a while to get up though (isn't it like 120 seconds? I actually don't even know, I know BCs are 90s and that carriers were longer). When you can instantly sink 2000 gas into mass archons or invest it in something you're not gonna get anytime soon... well... the choice is usually made pretty quickly. You can instantly sink 200 gas into mass archons which die to infestor/bl. There's no versatile and effective way to deal with infestor/corruptor/bl with only protoss ground. I used to think mothership+archon was enough, until I met zergs who weren't dumb and actually micro/position their deathball. Void rays are nice but get countered too hard by infestors. That leaves carriers... which actually work amazingly well. | ||
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PDizzle
Denmark1754 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
still as a zerg this is scary for sure | ||
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