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WinningGuy
Australia53 Posts
I just started using this. I try to hotkey my nexus all under my Mouse 4 button, which works fine, even though my Logitech M950 feels a little shit and unresponsive on the mouse button side. Anyway, I can hotkey all my Nexus under Mouse 4. However I cannot recall the selection with mouse 4...what am I doing wrong? Same goes for mouse 5, I can make a control group but cannot recall it. | ||
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blobo23
United Kingdom8 Posts
went on my Razor Imperator Config, created a profile called "Starcraft 2". On this profile there is a macro(Don't worry not one in which it does multi-actions so it does not break Blizzard t&c) in which when i press mouse 4 it presses P and then lets go of P, the same way in which you'd just press the button normally. Same again with O and mouse 5. It all worked fine with me after i bound my mouse 4 and mouse 5 to these macro's. Screenshots: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/50fw21.png) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/wcbdvo.png) I Know you have a different mouse but perhaps if you follow the same sort of guidelines, perhaps that can be fixed :D. Sorry if I was no help at all. Also: Finally just getting used to this layout, my apm has probably increased by 10 -15 on average. Also, despite me being a complete scrub at the game I've gotten much better with my macro and being able to recover quite easily when my money goes too high. Thanks alot.  I'd reconmend this if you are fairly new to the game especially, don't hestitate and think you'll wait till you understand the game more as you'll just spend longer forcing the new hotkeys in, whether bronze or masters, I'd say just get it, get in good habibts, and become much better with much less finger and wrist pains. | ||
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Raymano
Australia27 Posts
I find that practicing towards a specific goal each days helps alot - e.g. build ONLY barracks units + upgrades if you try do ur normal build orders straight away, ull prolly get frustrated and switch bak to ur old keys (i've done so many times... =.=") as terran im finding the layered camera more and more useful. but i have a keyboard with a very small ALT key so i place Set Camera to Ctrl Alt + letter and retrieve to Ctrl + letter. Works well so far =) Still eagerly awaiting the tutorial videos! =D | ||
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Doomtrain2
Germany45 Posts
On February 09 2012 04:47 FoxyMayhem wrote: Here's the main goals when I designed: 1) Minimize hand movement, 2) alteration, or, when doing several common actions, design the layout so you use the same fingers or hands one after the other (I don't but barracks on F F because that's slower than F W). The actions that need to be done faster, even if they're not common, are made easy. That has to be balanced with the most common actions, which also have to be easy. thank you. And I think I solved my problem with very minor fixes now............ my thumb... and my spacebar is rattling. - - - On February 09 2012 21:00 WinningGuy wrote: Hey people, does anyone else have this issue. I just started using this. I try to hotkey my nexus all under my Mouse 4 button, which works fine, even though my Logitech M950 feels a little shit and unresponsive on the mouse button side. Anyway, I can hotkey all my Nexus under Mouse 4. However I cannot recall the selection with mouse 4...what am I doing wrong? Same goes for mouse 5, I can make a control group but cannot recall it. Hi there, I don't know a solution either but maybe I can help you to find the problem. Here is smth you can try. Be sure you used just O and P for mouse 4 and mouse 5. If yes, check in a text editor using your mouse buttons with O and P typing o and p then use a modifier to type Capital letters: moues button 4 + shift should equal "O". If that works there should be no problem ingame because the mouse buttons just simulate the letters (o,p) pressed. - - - On February 09 2012 16:31 bankai wrote: Hi, this is an interesting read. For Protoss layout 1.3 mouseless separate production there is no hotkey for Colossus anymore, while the other layouts do? How would you handle Colossus movement using this method? Also, for the same layout, why is R = Stalker, T = Templar, Y = zealot? I would have thought T = zealot, Y = Templar instead since you use zealots more often? Many games you don't even get to use Templar since its late game? What is your reasoning behind that setup? Thanks!! Hi, yes interesting read of course! Regarding colossus handling. You can simply ctrl+click the colossi then move them back. If you feel that's too slow you must exchange it with another key - and make a note for yourself what u changed (for later updates from foxymayhem looking at HoS). If you realy want that good micro (like colosi on 3) you could try using numbers 6 and 7 for seperate production.. Yes it's not belonging to the left of your keyboard, but you ahve to choose, heh? Or try F1 and F2 for those 2 extra seperate Production - try what suits you better 6,7 or F1 F2.. sacrifice some speed for more control. Your second issue is about production right? Default should be Zealot Q, Templar W, Sentry E, Stalker F.. No reasoning comes to my mind. Maybe you should fix that according to the default I listed you. Because if there is no reason.. - when you havewarpgates on 3 (seperate mouseless production) Q W E F are still better thatn T Y I think. Can't tell you this for sure though - To be honest I didn't try your layout  - - - On February 09 2012 22:29 Raymano wrote: im getting more and more used to this. still not good enough for laddering but getting better everyday =) I find that practicing towards a specific goal each days helps alot - e.g. build ONLY barracks units + upgrades if you try do ur normal build orders straight away, ull prolly get frustrated and switch bak to ur old keys (i've done so many times... =.=") as terran im finding the layered camera more and more useful. but i have a keyboard with a very small ALT key so i place Set Camera to Ctrl Alt + letter and retrieve to Ctrl + letter. Works well so far =) Still eagerly awaiting the tutorial videos! =D Hi maybe military drill helps you.. learn faster or execute faster. - try for yourself at what learning-stage you want to use it - Start with writing down your innner checklist and hotkeys. Ingame work through this list and use all hotkeys. Read the first step execute it, read the next point execute it and so on ... then repeat the loop. Also possible with recorded voice - read the list yourself with hotkeys and just do what you hear. You can speed that up. Also possible with a partner.. You don't have to use the whole game checklist, you can just do a macro loop or just do a micro loop - I don't know what's the best way either But I was at the miliatry and learned some things by this way pretty fast and of course i used this to train my old grid... - I haven't used recorded voice or a partner yet.. just my ideas what you could do if you wanted.If you don't want to use recorded voice or a partner you can do like me: urging yourself to remember the checkpoints and execute them fastly. The point is after a short time of training this way. you do it automatically.. it's not you doing it it's your hands! -so begin with writing down your steps - very easy. Sry when I tell you obvious stuff, but I can't know detailed what you want to know and if you want to know ^.^ - - - ps: Hey guys I want to point out - while studying DarkGrid layout 1.3 I noticed that it includes camera rolling (because dark grid has the bonus of mouse-using..) for fast check (mutas) or fast reinforcements (warp in) edit: a link is below. Check this out: Spot where u want reinforcements (defending point or your attack): press ctrl+1, press 2 (spot where u can warp in), press mouse for warpgates (darkgrid 1.3 is button "6" for warpgates), press Q for zealots, select, press 1, rightlick mouse (for move) - takes like 1s or more - depending on the number of zealots you warp in. This is like "rolling" because alternating keys (1,2,q/f,1) are not as fast but also quite good. Sry I did only check my race in combination with darkgrid, but my setup for zerg would be this: When I play zerg I'd use this (ctrl +1, backspace backspace backspace to check bases, press 1) and u are back and you know the status of all your hatcheries. it's a checking step of a few progamers wether they have injected, because injecting takes more time than checking... especially when you ARE microing. Sry i use backspace for the base-cycling on my mouse (wheel up..) So it is not realy a dark-grid method for zerg.. I think you can consider doing that if you want to use this 99% muta micro concept in your gameplay. - Coz ctrl +1 then alt + q,w etc is slow and 1 again. With Mutas microing and checking you don't want to deselect your mutas btw. - Not to misunderstand: for injecting you use the darkgrid method of course EDIT: I don't want to confuse you more, but I here found a thread about camera rolling while microing on teamliquid: Interesting read: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269126 Try it out - works and needs very little modification on dark grid. I think!!! | ||
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nonsequitur
384 Posts
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Sennin
Belgium50 Posts
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Doomtrain2
Germany45 Posts
current: w add: q result: let's you add workers to queue faster. reason: pressing double requires more muscle-tension than just using 2 fingers after another. Try it out. I am just using Foxymayhems reasoning that he found out. Alternate suggestion: w,e (protoss change mother ship from e -> q) T/P good for: midgame where u need to produce 4 to 8 worker (2 at once for 2 to 4 bases) Z good for: "Also good for not accidentally making workers when spamming for larvae." | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
Fighting and beating mostly masters It's also much easier to do things like lifting buildings, and my TvP micro has greatly improved. | ||
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Dragnmn
Netherlands52 Posts
On February 12 2012 03:20 Doomtrain2 wrote: good for: midgame where u need to produce 4 to 8 worker (2 at once for 2 to 4 bases) Also good for not accidentally making workers when spamming for larvae. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
Hey guys, been busy preparing for a horse show the Family ranch is showing at. I'll not be updating for d while, but hopefully when I'm back I can do a starter tutorial. | ||
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
Play with it a few days, then just jump into the ladder :D Also, My tip is to switch 'q' for attack to 'a' for attack, just because its natural to hit a from playing standard and that is quicker and easier for me | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
Posted on the main forums over here EDIT: To avoid having to edit in multiple places, I will keep the thread on the main forums up to date Old text + Show Spoiler + Darkgrid Trainer PREVIEW This python script lets you practice the Darkgrid layout without having to open SC2, useful if you are at work and want to practice, waiting for a queue in Dota2, or just want to focus on hotkeys and nothing else. NOTE: This is a preview version, which is only Zerg and only some of the commands, if there is demand I can make it much more extensive Download! Instructions:
Screenshot: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pMh1q.png) Screenshot (shows the correct keys and what you pressed): + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vW1HG.png) | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
You might also consider giving a measure of milliseconds how long it takes them to execute an action, perhaps with a short 3-2-1 countdown before beginning after displaying the desired action. If you combine this with a "best time" save, so people can measure their progress, BAM, you've got a game to train you. Of course, maybe I'm just dreaming a bit ^_^. I'll add you to the OP when you release. | ||
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SirPsychoMantis
United States180 Posts
On February 12 2012 13:27 FoxyMayhem wrote: That looks awesome, SirPsycho! Very nice! Nice way to keep it auto up-to-date. You might also consider giving a measure of milliseconds how long it takes them to execute an action, perhaps with a short 3-2-1 countdown before beginning after displaying the desired action. If you combine this with a "best time" save, so people can measure their progress, BAM, you've got a game to train you. Of course, maybe I'm just dreaming a bit ^_^. I'll add you to the OP when you release. I've added basics for each race, time between successes, and toggle options for different types of commands. Feel free to link the download page in the OP | ||
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Doz
United States145 Posts
I'm a Terran, my only thought so far is using mouse 4 and 5 for cc/tech and barracks. For my mouse, Logitech MX 518, both the two buttons are on the side of the mouse and only usable with the thumb. I usually cycle these functions a lot during play, but to have them all on two thumb buttons feels very slow and awkward. Any suggestions? The hotkey setup I've used for production since beta has been: 4 CC, 5 Barracks, 6 Factory, 7Starport, 1-3 army groups, ~ armory/engineering bay, 8-0 are too much of a reach, even though I have larger than average hands. I've also never really tried to incorporate the layered cameras into my play, definitely feels awkward so far, more so for the layout order feeling awkward (q,w,d,a,s,f in that order? just feels unintuitive at first, though maybe that's my muscle memory talking) Will it effect anything if I use something like w,e,r,s,d,f? | ||
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NTTemplar
609 Posts
This is just how I customized the darkgrid to better suit me, but maybe some of the changes are worth considering. Rotated 5, 4 and spacebar to be: Spacebar = infestors | 5 = hatcheries | 4 = Broodlord Corruptor Reasoning: I find spacebar to be less pleasant to use for hatcheries due to size, also I feel it is more important for infestors to have that hotkey, in addition 4-f is not nearly as natural as spacebar-f for me. 5-w feels more natural (as 4/5 are the standard control groups for hatcheries for the majorities of zergs) and 4-f for corruptors corruption is much better than 5-f for me. Switched the hotkey for making corruptor (C) with muta (S) Reasoning: I feel W-C is easier than W-S and muta is far more used than Corruptor, also muta is often accompanied by making lings and W-F and W-C is much smoother for me than W-F and W-S. Switched Patrol (A) and Attack (Q) Reasoning: Well what I am used with mostly, but despite that I believe V-A to be far better than V-Q, and the others seem indifferent to whetever they are on A or Q. Patrol not being as crucial as attack move I believe it is better to have them switched. Will also be more natural for people wanting to change to darkgrid from standard. Switched a few of the build building to better corresponding with build unit, like hydra den from D-W to D-A so the building is built with same hotkey as the unit (W-A). Also I got a bit uncertain when I was typing this, but I believe I changed infestor pit from D to F, but it might have been on F all along, if it was on D the reasoning at least is to avoid double tapping to build it. BNET down so no checking that atm. Switched the melee, range and armor upgrades for ground to F-E-W instead of E-F-W, and spire upgrades to F-E and upgrade to greater spire W as to better with the upgrades from left to right go F-E-W no matter. I am rather confused as to the choice of E-F-W on evo and F-W-E on spire, along with E-D for ovie speed and drop. To me the consistency of F-E-W makes more sense as it makes for easier learning. Also for the ovie speed and drop it is just more smooth to go F-E instead of E-D (actually I got D for drop instead of the E I keep mentioning, this is to reduce the chance of missclicking drop tech when I mean to select larva.) So F-D, still smoother than E-D and less chance of missclicking. And that is the changes I remember making. (B.NET down as said, so won't be able to check if there were more.) Now I wonder why the mouse enchanced, and mouseless ones have swapped the rallypoint cam and xnwt cam in the picture? Also you mentioned wanting to implement the arrowkeys, have you tried using CTRL+e.g. ASDW and if you have, what problems you had with it, unless you are making the change in the near future. Just something I thought about, not sure how it would work. Lastly, amazing work on making this ! | ||
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Doomtrain2
Germany45 Posts
I have learned the grid and here some suggestions for hotkeys (and training) of darkgrid shortly expressed using your own reasoning. I tested everything. ("x->y" means swap hotkey x with new hotkey y), ( "::" reasoning) buildings (faster hotkeys, alternation) worker: w,e :: alternating, faster build, also w,e + chrono (F) build stalker: f->e and build sentry: e-> f :: stalker more frequently used, fast chrono with F <-alternating build robo: d-> f :: because you use it often so "dd" is too slow, build fleed: -> d, least build so "dd" is appropriate. btw: build colossi: a,c :: is good, maybe switch to a,s for more natural alternating producing. i.e. you have 2 robo and build 2 colossi at a time. upgrades (better chrono, alternation), forge, w,e,q :: w most used, fast chrono with F <-alternating, and w,e is natural to use (2 forges) robo bay: q,e,w :: fast chrono with F <-alternating, or "q,w,e" :: because u don't upgrade with "w,e" like in the forge fleed + templarArchives: e :: fast chrono with F <-alternating, circle of twilight: w,e personal changes: idle workers: ^ :: because protoss need this more than center position. Edit after some more testing: I have put an alternativ key for chrono boost, as you sometimes chrono just 2 or 4 buildings where alternation is faster than clicking F again and again. And shift for jsut 2 or 3 F is also slower in my opinion, for more than 4 holding F down is the way to go I guess. So for DarkGrid it would be E,F and put 'build worker' to Q,W (before suggestion is Q,E) The maps I used to train the layout very fast: First: custom games vs very easy. The goal is to use every hotkey and get used to it, not to win. Second: "uncEL micro test" to use all army-hotkeys in real scenarios. (also possible with friend) Third to learn it with speed and pressure: "Multitasking trainer 0.95" (inner version 1.35 or so) Edit: Last: Ladder where u will see what hotkeys are not in your blood and learn repeat these after a ladder game.#Hope you can use my suggestions. good luck in the future and have fun. #Thanks for your inspirational layout. | ||
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NTTemplar
609 Posts
On February 15 2012 22:41 Doomtrain2 wrote: Hi foxymayhem, The maps I used to train the layout very fast: First: custom games vs very easy. The goal is to use every hotkey and get used to it, not to win. Second: "uncEL micro test" to use all army-hotkeys in real scenarios. (also possible with friend) Third and last to learn it with speed and pressure: "Multitasking trainer 0.95" (inner version 1.35 or so) #Hope you can use my suggestions. good luck in the future and have fun. #Thanks for your inspirational layout. I also recommend adding that to the OP for ways to learn. Focused learning is way better than just laddering, also way easier to be motivated for since you won't have to go on ladder and lose 50 games. | ||
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Doomtrain2
Germany45 Posts
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
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