• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:28
CEST 04:28
KST 11:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.161Rollback Netcode in Brood War845.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202623Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BW General Discussion ASL FINALS HYPE VIDEO 2X ASL22 General Discussion BSL23 Confirmations Starts on New BSL Portal
Tourneys
ASL 22 Finals [ASL22] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11460 users

[G] Darkgrid Layout - Page 15

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 31 Next All
Sennin
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium50 Posts
February 03 2012 22:07 GMT
#281
You should remember that the basic mechanics won't change at all. The worst thing that could happen is that you need to bind other units to the hotkeys.
cyrex
Profile Joined November 2010
United States24 Posts
February 04 2012 02:46 GMT
#282
I'm trying this out for the first time and I can't seem to get any mouse hotkeys to work. I copied both the mouseless and the regular files to my directory (in case they were mixed up). Neither of them have any mouse hotkeys for the Control Groups section.
CalmQ
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom9 Posts
February 04 2012 02:58 GMT
#283
any chance of a video for hand positions - in particular im kinda struggling to see how to position my hands to inject for zerg compared to it normally resting on qwef. Am I meant to be moving them or just have more control over my fingers than I apparantly do right now -_-
Raymano
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia27 Posts
February 04 2012 03:08 GMT
#284
Nice update with the Terran layout. Will try practice with this one now. When will the Video Guides you mentioned in the interview come out?
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
February 04 2012 03:10 GMT
#285
The layout may have some changes in HotS, but injecting, camera control, and most unis will be completely unchanged. It's totally worth it. (Thanks again guys for helping.)

Mouse Hotkeys must be set manually, or change your mouse drivers to produce O and P when pressed. Updating FAQ.

I'll see if I can't make a good zerg inject video soon, if not tomorrow.
Sir Snoopy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 05:59:06
February 04 2012 05:58 GMT
#286
This might be a silly question- but do you have plans to continue darkgrid for HOTS?

E: I'm stupid and didn't think anyone asked this question. Sorry!
That's SIR Sir Snoopy to you!
Myusen
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany29 Posts
February 04 2012 11:44 GMT
#287
It's kinda cool but at the same time totally useless to adept to hotkeys that are not choosen by urself T_T
<3 Liquid'Snute | nonesports.de
cyrex
Profile Joined November 2010
United States24 Posts
February 04 2012 15:45 GMT
#288
How is it useless. The point of the layout is to optimize your actions. Whether you designed it or not, it is difficult to argue that the DG1.3 layout isn't MORE optimal than the standard grid layout or the default layout. It is not totally useless at all. However, it does take a LOT of work to get used to.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 18:53:44
February 04 2012 18:52 GMT
#289
Mighty, you're missing the point my friend. It doesn't matter if you or I came up with it, placing all the control groups on the left side of the keyboard is faster. Same for every change I've made. You didn't make Blizzard's hotkeys, but you learned them, and it made you faster than using a mouse.

In the same way, this will work for you, even if you haven't designed it.
juliansniff
Profile Joined August 2011
United States50 Posts
February 04 2012 21:26 GMT
#290
Is this not allowed in competative play? I know that changing hotkeys is frowned upon by blizzard so would this be allowed?
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
February 04 2012 21:39 GMT
#291
On February 05 2012 06:26 BeJu wrote:
Is this not allowed in competative play? I know that changing hotkeys is frowned upon by blizzard so would this be allowed?


That's a ridiculous statement. They gave us the option to change our hotkeys using their own UI.

So far as I'm aware, changing your hotkeys is allowed in all (most?) tournaments, so long as only a single action is bound to a single key (IOW: No multi-action macros).
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
February 04 2012 23:00 GMT
#292
Nemireck is correct, Blizzard encourages customization but the Term of Service says they can ban you for Macros. This uses no macros.

At one point, 1.3 used thirdparty software to bind the mouse keys as Ctrl and Shift, but I decided then that this had to be tournament ready. While the third party software complied with Blizzard's TOS, tournaments probably would not be okay with third party software aside from mouse drivers, or at least it would cause complications. Darkgrid 1.3 is tournament ready.
ZombieDenden
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany15 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-05 13:08:42
February 05 2012 13:06 GMT
#293
Foxy, It has now taken me 3 days of practice and i am now feeling comfortable with this setup. I had been using the previous version which must have helped a great deal but the upgrade is a serious change and its like starting again. Additionally i had many keys swapped around to my own liking but this time (cause i know how much analysis you put into this) i am using your keys for everything.

I have also added shift and alt to two buttons on my mouse to get rid of the awkwardness of the shift+alt inject method. Now i just hold down the two buttons on my mouse and cycle through.

So now my cycle is:
mouse button 3 (queens),
e (inject larva)
hold down mouse buttons 7 and 10 (shift+alt),
q, click,
w, click,
f, click,
d, click,
s, click,
a, click
feel like a boss

(for those wondering about the mouse im using, its the Razer Naga (aka the telephone mouse).)

It is so fast and accurate that i keep double checking to see that it actually did what i wanted. It feels weirdly fast

Also i like that you have given us specific tasks for each control group. It makes me hotkey everything and also use those groups. This increases my control, speeds things up and minimises pesky precise clicks needed in micro battles.

Additionally i got promoted from gold to platinum in 4v4 while i was training this setup so its hard to say it made things worse

One final note, the creep cam is excellent! It reminds me to spread creep and so my creep is spreading faster.
My zergling is bigger than your zergling.
k1n6
Profile Joined December 2011
United States4 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-05 21:51:09
February 05 2012 21:50 GMT
#294
I adopted this layout for my zerg build about 5 days ago...... I've pretty much got it down now even in intense play.

A few tweaks: I play a lot of team play and the ping minimap was too hard..... i switched that to alt-g.

I also made 6 an alt for the hatchery group.

Also, changling feels very awkward on C I switched that to F, seems much better.


Edit, PS: thanks a ton for putting together such an awesome keyboard layout
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 00:39:49
February 06 2012 00:35 GMT
#295
Hey k1n6, that changling adjustment was updated in the official download two days ago as well. Check it out, there's a few other rebindings you may want to consider as well.

As for ping, I should put it on alt+G for those who use that method -- I've always used alt+minimap click, so that position was just a throw-away. Updating the files now...

And layouts updated. I took this chance to find the best places for more of those "throwaway" commands. This is the result:
[image loading]

Download the updated layouts or modify yours to match, whichever is easiest for people wanting to use these. I decided to keep it on Shift+Alt+G for now, since Alt can be used in place of Ctrl for setting control groups. Don't want to throw people off.

Edit: yeah man! ^_^
Doomtrain2
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany45 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 12:14:34
February 06 2012 12:02 GMT
#296
Hi realy nice thread and idea, I AM using a modified grid with cam hotkeys on space and alt (setting it up with F and H (pylon)) and warpgates on R (very fast roling: F,R, q/w/e, space - produced and back at army with reinforcements already walking)! And I was just curious if there is anything I could enhance.. so I found this Realy glad ppl do this stuff as I see so many pros not realy using smart hotkey setups nor cams. Even Hero GM#6 doesn't have Zealots on a seperate hotkey and sometimes messes it up ^.^

@topic:
I watched the Protoss Grid Layout Explanation.

I want to add: Using cycling base cams + chronoboost is very useful for training probes. But with dark grid 1.3 this becomes very difficult. You would press B then the Chronohotkey - that's not intuitiv and especially very slow.

Will study this more... and am looking forward to visit this thread soon again when I find some time. And then probably test this.
Try DarkGrid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257590 | Naniwa WIN: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xWdDvWVtlj4/T_RvMeWkFgI/AAAAAAAAAGU/pKMQ6x_R60A/s1600/khaldor-celebrating-naniwa.gif
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
February 06 2012 12:17 GMT
#297
On February 06 2012 21:02 Doomtrain2 wrote:
Hi realy nice thread and idea, I AM using a modified grid with cam hotkeys on space and alt (setting it up with F and H (pylon)) and warpgates on R (very fast roling: F,R, q/w/e, space - produced and back at army with reinforcements already walking)! And I was just curious if there is anything I could enhance.. so I found this Realy glad ppl do this stuff as I see so many pros not realy using smart hotkey setups nor cams. Even Hero GM#6 doesn't have Zealots on a seperate hotkey and sometimes messes it up ^.^

@topic:
I watched the Protoss Grid Layout Explanation.

I want to add: Using cycling base cams + chronoboost is very useful for training probes. But with dark grid 1.3 this becomes very difficult. You would press B then the Chronohotkey - that's not intuitiv and especially very slow.

Will study this more... and am looking forward to visit this thread soon again when I find some time. And then probably test this.

Can't you do it just like with injections? Press nexus group, hold shift, press and release chrono, cycle while clicking?
Doomtrain2
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany45 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 16:02:34
February 06 2012 13:12 GMT
#298
On February 06 2012 21:17 Tobberoth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 21:02 Doomtrain2 wrote:
Hi realy nice thread and idea, I AM using a modified grid with cam hotkeys on space and alt (setting it up with F and H (pylon)) and warpgates on R (very fast roling: F,R, q/w/e, space - produced and back at army with reinforcements already walking)! And I was just curious if there is anything I could enhance.. so I found this Realy glad ppl do this stuff as I see so many pros not realy using smart hotkey setups nor cams. Even Hero GM#6 doesn't have Zealots on a seperate hotkey and sometimes messes it up ^.^

@topic:
I watched the Protoss Grid Layout Explanation.

I want to add: Using cycling base cams + chronoboost is very useful for training probes. But with dark grid 1.3 this becomes very difficult. You would press B then the Chronohotkey - that's not intuitiv and especially very slow.

Will study this more... and am looking forward to visit this thread soon again when I find some time. And then probably test this.

Can't you do it just like with injections? Press nexus group, hold shift, press and release chrono, cycle while clicking?

good idea. didn't look into zerg too much.
I just used F1-F4 for base cams (checknig saturation and being fast with defending drops) and Protoss does not have the problem with the queens walking around when there is missing one - so just using one key to quickly cycle thrrough all bases and chrono everything is the most effective one and the Bases F1-F5 dont follow up with additional hotkeys just mouse movement commands - so atm this is optimum for me. Will consider / study your idea though. Maybe i just change some hotkeys. Like "center" to another position - I use centering for microing mostly (when there is a unit in the corner and you have to move it more to the corner for example) unlike zerg that uses it for transfusing. So not that important maybe that could go to "b" (darkgrid protoss position for cycling)

Sry I am just arguing with myself a bit too I put alot of training into my grid and I have to think about it if adapting or implementing DarkGrid 1.3 is realy worth it. I realy like the multiple unit control of Dargrid 1.3 for protoss and it seems to be realy fast. On the Other hand 1a2a3a is part of my blood -.-

Regarding the cams in general having to press alt+ANYKEY also seems quite slow to me when it comes to base defense. As you don't reach alt +KEY in a few miliseconds (because its a keycombo), but you do with f1 to F4 (they're also feeling different on my keyboard).

ps:
I will try it out the next days asap (just try first) . Someone here from BW whos is / was realy into 1a2a3a and has hints for me how I can learn DarkGrid in this matter? I do play a dargelein's micro map from time to time which has a 1a2a3a4a training but I don't know atm if it's effective for this. Realy hoping you can give me a good arm there.

I want to share a hint too. Here is how I trained my own grid. Do games vs AIs that you can beat easy with your current training (increase difficulty later). Have a checklist (like day9s), make notes about the hotkeys at each check point. Now go through the checklist (pylons ressources build-worker check army build army and so on) (btw this way you can enhance your mental checklist in addition) and use every hotkey you wrote down (important not to watch your bo and stuff just concentrate on the checkpoint and hotkey). At first you have to look on your paper, then you have to realy think what to do next, then it gets easier, you can start to make it automatically but not too fast, then faster. The easy AI helps getting into all the stuff while cheering you up knochking on your front door. Later on you can use military drill (starts with fast reading and ends with self-pressure), a friend via teamspeak would be optimal giving very fast commands... No matter how fast you want to play don't forget your checklist and hotkeys although it is slower at first. You can do this in smaller steps to be perfect. First only train the macro checklist and hotkeys. Next train the military and hotkeys... You can do single macro things first (but in a single match.. else it wold be too easy) You can add looking at your minimap between every checkpoint (foxymayhem gave a good advanced excersise for that with your friend..)
- This way you train your musical instruments too what would be impossible otherwise (yes im playing guitar), mentioning the guitar I want to add that large distances between keys are not always slower but they're harder to train for and less flexible. (like foxymayhem emphasized)


pps: Ok tried it out a little. Actually you can't use shift-micro very well. Like 3 (colossi) back, shift, attack, and other groups, because ur hand is angled towards the inner of your keyboard (like advised and because of they hotkeys of course). My pinky is very agile already, never the less its quite difficult... Or am I doing something wrong?
Try DarkGrid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257590 | Naniwa WIN: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xWdDvWVtlj4/T_RvMeWkFgI/AAAAAAAAAGU/pKMQ6x_R60A/s1600/khaldor-celebrating-naniwa.gif
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 16:35:22
February 06 2012 16:02 GMT
#299
Thanks very much for all the work you've put into this.

I've got a question though (keep in mind that I am a total newbie, I played briefly over a year ago and am just getting back into SC2):

First off, what's the actual difference between the T&P vs Z hotkey files? I plan to not only adapt to your new hotkeys but also learn Zerg and Protoss (which I've never played before) so I can play as random. Looking through I haven't been able to figure out what the difference between the two setups actually is. I mean mechanically as in which keys do what: I can see that you have different recommendations for how to make use of the control groups. Is there any reason I shouldn't just use the T&P hotkey file with Zerg as well?

Also, is there any good reason why Q is attack? I've switched it to W as suggested in your Terran interview. I had to switch SCVs to Q though, because otherwise it overloads the keys for the Planetary Fortress.

One last thing: any progress on those tutorial videos "That's so raven" is going to make? I don't have his youtube channel or anything.

Edit: ok, real last thing: Do you know how "final" this setup is? I mean, is there stuff you're already thinking about changing, like making more use of mouse buttons? I made one modification: I bound my mousewheel click (I've got another button if that's inconvenient) to alt, because I find holding alt+ctrl kind of awkward sometimes.

I hope these aren't stupid questions; it's just that you've obviously put a lot of thought into this and I don't want to screw up some subtlety that I didn't even notice.
Doomtrain2
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany45 Posts
February 06 2012 16:05 GMT
#300
Borskey I don't know the answers, but the thing I can advise you is playing one race with this setup.
Try DarkGrid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257590 | Naniwa WIN: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xWdDvWVtlj4/T_RvMeWkFgI/AAAAAAAAAGU/pKMQ6x_R60A/s1600/khaldor-celebrating-naniwa.gif
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 31 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
09:30
#103
PiGStarcraft619
CranKy Ducklings89
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft619
Reynor 214
RuFF_SC2 154
ViBE146
ProTech141
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2798
GuemChi 1594
NaDa 47
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
taco 393
Other Games
summit1g8206
JimRising 518
C9.Mang0351
Livibee171
WinterStarcraft159
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1000
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 57
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP55
• davetesta13
• Letter149
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1378
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
8h 32m
The PondCast
1d 7h
Online Event
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-13
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.