EPThttp://drop.sc/56343
Too bad the protoss went nexus first and he didn't scout it, ended up with 4 bases. But if scouted on time, how potential is this build against a 1Base all in from a Toss?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 65
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
http://drop.sc/56343 Too bad the protoss went nexus first and he didn't scout it, ended up with 4 bases. But if scouted on time, how potential is this build against a 1Base all in from a Toss? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Against a 1-base Colossus, DT, or VR rush, going for a quick starport and making air units will always work. Against a 1 base allin that's less tech-heavy, such as a 4gate, 3 gate immortal allin, or sentry 4gate, the starport is less useful but you'll still be able to hold. I'd advice generally against getting a 2nd starport on 1 base. Instead try to take an expansion, which will let you support more than 2 starports, or if you want to 1-base against him, produce tanks out of your factory instead of getting a 2nd Starport. Classic TvP 1 base with quick starport usually consists of a reactored barracks with a tech lab on the factory and on the starport. You constantly produce marines, tanks, and banshees, and use your extra gas to get siege mode, cloak, or an early raven, and use this potent early-game combination of units in conjunction with repairing scvs to attack. | ||
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Precise
64 Posts
 ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-241188.jpg) | ||
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kORALIE
Belgium16 Posts
I've watched like 20 terran replays and im trying to do same stuff that day9 teached in his "how to steal a build order" video. But its just confusing as hell. Theres A LOT building switches between reactors and techlabs, and it just makes me too god damn confused. Im actually thinking to switch my race to protoss, cause it seems much easier for a noob like me. Any advices from terran players? Should I just keep doing my stuff with terran, or should I try to do it as day9 teaches? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 11 2011 07:51 Precise wrote: I have a HUGE problem with TvT, I have no idea how to win! I read through some of the posts and it seems replay's are neccesary to capture what I mean, so here it is, I just want some helpful feedback A replay is definitely necessary to capture your meaning, but a little background info on what you did, and what you think went wrong in this replay, and what happened, is usually good as well. On November 11 2011 08:15 kORALIE wrote: So here's my problem. I've watched like 20 terran replays and im trying to do same stuff that day9 teached in his "how to steal a build order" video. But its just confusing as hell. Theres A LOT building switches between reactors and techlabs, and it just makes me too god damn confused. Im actually thinking to switch my race to protoss, cause it seems much easier for a noob like me. Any advices from terran players? Should I just keep doing my stuff with terran, or should I try to do it as day9 teaches? Hm. Well, to start, what build order are you trying to figure out? For most common build orders there are guides written as well as detailed descriptions either here on the forums or on liquipedia. Try finding your build order in written form-- it might make more sense. If you can't find it, you could also ask what it is here and someone might be able to explain it in a fashion that's easier to understand than watching videos. | ||
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kORALIE
Belgium16 Posts
I did some research and i found this for TvP and TvT, is this any good to work on? 10 supply 12 barrack 15 orbital 15 marine 15supply 15refinery (dont put additional scvs into refinery until you start your cc inside your base) 21 Command center expansion(Put 2 more into refinery mining so total of 3) - Drop another 2 barracks down and non stop pump marines and scv's - Get a tech lab right after and when you get 100 gas get stim - (you should still be on 1 gas at this point) - Get an engineering bay and start getting +1 attack then +1 armor - start upgrades when engineer is done and throw down a bunker or 2 with a turret if you think there is a chance of dt's - Only start your second refinery when you decide to get your factory down which should be soon after you - have a decent size marine size of 10-15 and move out to your natural. - Get stim pack and combat shield ASAP once your tech lab is done and get reactors on your 2 additional barracks that you through down in the beginning Attack once your combat shield finishes | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
It might be better to start off by learning a more conservative expansion, though-- depending on how comfortable you are with Sc2. I'm not sure what your current skill level is, but if you're looking for a basic build order that works in all matchups and is pretty flexible, Synystyr's 2 Rax 3 Bunker FE works great, with the exception of having some issues against a fast-teching opponent in TvT. Regardless, if you're looking for a fast expand build that gives you access to tech and is fairly safe, this is the build for you. The 2 Rax 3 Bunker FE detailedhere by Synystyr: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=185963 Build order: 10 Depot 12 Barracks 14 Barracks (2) 16 Depot 15 Orbital Command ~22-24 Command Center -> Orbital when finished 25 Refinery x2 25 Depot (cut marines at ~24-25 until depot is finished. Should have 7 at this point.) 27 Bunker x3 Video Tutorial In this video, I go over the basics of how to learn a build order, in this case, 2 rax 3 bunker FE. On twitch.tv: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/294524697 Embedded video (youtube) + Show Spoiler + | ||
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kORALIE
Belgium16 Posts
For those 100 games or so, i've only focused three things. Macro like never before, dont get supply blocked and at least do a little bit scouting. With this i've won 80 games or so only a-moving my units to enemys base. :E Only minimal micro and APM required. Because of the fact my APM is only 30-70, I just cant do the pro's harrashing builds against zerg, so stealing their builds would be stupid I guess, or maybe im underestimating my abilities, who knows. QQ I wanna be _the_ terran. And by the way, thanks for the build order, it seems pretty darn legit. | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
On October 03 2011 03:21 MonDeW wrote: What is the best way to counter HT's if you are in a very squeezed spot (lets say you are defending your natural). It's very difficult to get some money emp's out EMP or snipe them before they storm? Otherwise get the fuck out of there - try engage them in the middle of the map and just retreat when he goes to storm, delaying the push or at least reducing the amount of storms when they are on top of you | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 11 2011 09:55 Huggerz wrote: EMP or snipe them before they storm? Otherwise get the fuck out of there - try engage them in the middle of the map and just retreat when he goes to storm, delaying the push or at least reducing the amount of storms when they are on top of you That's a very thoughtful answer, but you may want to PM MonDeW to let him know you've responded-- the post you're replying to is over a month old. | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
On November 11 2011 10:00 Blazinghand wrote: That's a very thoughtful answer, but you may want to PM MonDeW to let him know you've responded-- the post you're replying to is over a month old. oh TT I don't know how I ended up on that page of this thread when I opened it | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
for TvP: I see it's kinda recommended to 1rax fe at least against P or something (or some masters players were saying that on reddit), I'm currently going 2rax (reactor -> techlab) pressure. I can tell that 1rax fe can survive +etc but I don't know if I should really go 1rax fe, is 2rax still standard ish? -- for TvT: I'm going 1rax fe, but can't decide if I should drop 2 more rax first and then gas OR 1rax and a gas (-> factory -> starport/etc) OR 2gas -> (factory/rax/whatever). What are the implications of each .... I realize the first one is more bio heavy of an opener but I'm just wondering... EDIT: at least for TvP I see polt still using this 2rax opening however hmm... and for TvZ I don't really see people go 1rax fe, but I personally hear from zerg players in my practice group saying it feels stronger, but I don't know when to pressure (oh and I main as zerg, offracing on a seperate account to learn other races, but I don't know when I can apply pressure, and I think I can get far with random timings or random things that kill me in ZvT currently, but those _feel_ all-inish to me, and I'm trying to learn how to do terran in a macro game first.... NOT do random cheeses to get out of X league or whatever (yet)... | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
On November 11 2011 18:27 zhurai wrote: for TvZ: 1rax fe vs reactor hellion expand, what are the pros and cons, and if I like to go 1rax fe (like I do right now) how do I pressure/etc? I feel I'm too passive in this matchup. -- + Show Spoiler + for TvP: I see it's kinda recommended to 1rax fe at least against P or something (or some masters players were saying that on reddit), I'm currently going 2rax (reactor -> techlab) pressure. I can tell that 1rax fe can survive +etc but I don't know if I should really go 1rax fe, is 2rax still standard ish? -- for TvT: I'm going 1rax fe, but can't decide if I should drop 2 more rax first and then gas OR 1rax and a gas (-> factory -> starport/etc) OR 2gas -> (factory/rax/whatever). What are the implications of each .... I realize the first one is more bio heavy of an opener but I'm just wondering... EDIT: at least for TvP I see polt still using this 2rax opening however hmm... and for TvZ I don't really see people go 1rax fe, but I personally hear from zerg players in my practice group saying it feels stronger, but I don't know when to pressure (oh and I main as zerg, offracing on a seperate account to learn other races, but I don't know when I can apply pressure, and I think I can get far with random timings or random things that kill me in ZvT currently, but those _feel_ all-inish to me, and I'm trying to learn how to do terran in a macro game first.... NOT do random cheeses to get out of X league or whatever (yet)... With reactor hellion you should take map control and deny his creep spread until he makes enough speed lings to overwhelm or roaches. Sometimes you can get to his natural mineral line and kill a couple of drones. Can give you a lot of information on what he's doing. Also having a quick factory means you can get banshees to harass, start going mech earlier, or just allows faster tanks. 1 rax FE is pretty easy to do against Zerg, as long as you scout that he's expanded and whether he is making an unusual amount of units. If you want to pressure quite quickly after FEing then building 3 more rax and push out with combat shield - but you need to know beforehand what he has for defence. MarineKing does this alllllll the time. If he's built a lot of units / spinecrawlers the best way to respond is just defend and expand again i.e. pull an MVP; if he hasn't, go punish him and at least force him to build some units. Normally on maps with wide open naturals (XNC, Metalopolis) hellion openings are preferable to FEing but both work. Good followups I find to 1 rax FE are a 4 rax combat shield push getting double engineering bay early (is difficult to macro if you are new to it), 3 rax and tank push (easy to get the hang of), mech, go straight to stim and medivacs for a double drop, or 2 port banshee. TvZ is the only matchup I am particularly confident in so I hope that helped | ||
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DruidzShift
Sweden71 Posts
I usually goes for a 1 rax FE whitout gas. But whenever my opponet goes for lika a 1-1-1 whit attack whit 2 tanks and a viking and some marines. How do you deffend this? When he push i usually only have marines,no stim and only one tank. | ||
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shishy
United States115 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 11 2011 11:19 Huggerz wrote: How does everyone feel about 1 rax FE with double gas before second supply depot as a go-to TvT build? Haven't played against many Masters recently but the build seems safe to everything except proxy rax and can go to bio, mech or straight air I think that TvT is a pretty map-dependent matchup. A build like this would be safe on Metalopolis Cross positions but less safe on Metalopolis Close Air positions due to the threat of banshee harass. I think it would be safe against most tank pushes because of the fast tech afforded by the double gas. Assuming you get the infrastructure to spend that gas in an effective manner, there's no reason a non-gasless 1 rax FE shouldn't work. On November 12 2011 02:18 TheNoob wrote: Hey! i ahve a HUGE problem in TvT. I usually goes for a 1 rax FE whitout gas. But whenever my opponet goes for lika a 1-1-1 whit attack whit 2 tanks and a viking and some marines. How do you deffend this? When he push i usually only have marines,no stim and only one tank. It really depends on the map and the situation. On small maps, doing a 1 rax no-gas FE is dangerous and generally not recommended-- it's difficult to fight when behind on tech. This is also the case on certain maps if you happen to spawn close by air (Shattered Temple, Metalopolis). If you find yourself in a situation where your opponent is doing a siege rush (with siege mode), and there's no way you can get siege mode or air superiority in time, your best option is to trade in some of your economy for a battle advantage. Pull about 10 scvs and attack into his tank-line while it's still only 2 tanks. You must do this before getting pushed back into your own main, except maybe on tal'darim-- you need enough room to spread out your attacking units. Have your tank focus-fire his tanks, and the rest of your army can just attack-move. If he kites with his marines behind his own tanks, stop chasing the marines until the tanks are dead. Send the scvs back to mine once they're no longer necessary in the fight. Bear in mind that you can fall pretty far behind on scvs and still be ahead if you have 2 orbital commands thanks to double mule and double scv production. If you retreat into your main, this is no longer an option due to the thin choke of the ramp. You'll need to defeat the push using banshees or tanks at that point. If you're going to pull scvs, do so as soon as you reasonably can. An unsieged tank has more single-target DPS than an sieged tank. On November 11 2011 18:27 zhurai wrote: for TvT: I'm going 1rax fe, but can't decide if I should drop 2 more rax first and then gas OR 1rax and a gas (-> factory -> starport/etc) OR 2gas -> (factory/rax/whatever). What are the implications of each .... I realize the first one is more bio heavy of an opener but I'm just wondering... If you drop 2 more rax first, you're delaying stimpack, siege tanks, and air tech in return for more marines immediately. This is good if you're planning on playing bio, but that's a given-- you're making 3 rax before taking any gas. If you get 1 fast gas, you won't be able to tech to starport (or if you will, you won't be able to make any gas units out of the factory, or stimpack etc), and generally without a relatively quick 2nd gas you're committing to biomech or pure bio with this as well, since just a tech lab and combat shields uses 125 gas. It's only a good idea to get 2 fast gasses if you're going to use the gas, either by getting quick infantry upgrades like combat shields, stim and +1, or by investing in factory or starport tech. Most Mech openings that come out of a 1 rax FE do this, using the initial gas to make infrastructure and addons while producing relatively gas-light units like hellions and vikings, transitioning to tank production as the 3rd and 4th gasses come up. This is what I do, and it is the most flexible number of gasses to take. If your adversary scans you and sees you have 2 gasses, you could be going for a quick banshee, or tanks, or mech, or stim and shields-- he doesn't know. On November 12 2011 02:29 shishy wrote: Is there an actual advantage to having separate hotkeys for rax/fact/port? I've always put them on the same key (and tabbed for production) but I was just wondering. It lets you set differently rally points. If you are only producing, say, marines and medivacs, and you want to rally straight to your army, it's hard to do so-- rallying to a marine causes it to be picked up by a rallied medivac, breaking the rally. Rallying to a medivac causes it to be filled with rallying marines. With separate control groups, you can rally your starport to the medivacs and your barracks to the marines. Also, you can rally your starport into some airspace while still having your other dudes rallied to your front, for example, if you're banshee rushing. Lastly, units have different build times, and sometimes you want to quickly select your starports (rather than facts or rax) without having to hit 4+tab+tab you can just hit 6 or whatever your control group for them is. | ||
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MaximusMInd
23 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 12 2011 12:06 MaximusMInd wrote: I am a high diamond terran player who recently lost to a 14 nexus solely because I had no idea on how to counter it. When you are going a 10 supply 12 rax 13 gas and 15 orbital and spot a 14 nexus before or when you upgrade to orbital, what is the most solid counter? If you are a masters or higher please help me, thanks This is a map-specific question due to what map you were on. For the most part, if you opened 13 gas your best option will be reaper bunker rush. Any fast tech won't be ready to attack until he's already recovered-- expand behind your reaper bunker. Killing a probe or two will get you back in the game. This is under the assumption of being on a large map like Tal'darim Altar, with long rush distances, where you can't easily attack. I'd say that on a smaller map, Nexus first is too risky, but if Protoss DOES take that enormous risk, go for a regular marauder concussive rush, getting a tech lab first and getting 2 marauders with concussive shell. Alternatively, (and I'm less sure about this), a reactor first 2 rax pressure with concussive shell and marauders. Due to the shorter rush distance, he won't be able to deal with this. Pull several scvs. You won't see nexus first on small maps though, just because of the threat of this kind of thing, so you're probably reaper bunker harass/expoing. What map were you on? | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On November 12 2011 12:06 MaximusMInd wrote: I am a high diamond terran player who recently lost to a 14 nexus solely because I had no idea on how to counter it. When you are going a 10 supply 12 rax 13 gas and 15 orbital and spot a 14 nexus before or when you upgrade to orbital, what is the most solid counter? If you are a masters or higher please help me, thanks Do a 3-rax stim/conc shell timing. Pull about 6 scvs with your initial push, and pull more if you think you need to to finish the job. SUPER IMPORTANT when attacking with bio and scvs vs zealot stalkers sentry, with the scvs mineral walk past the zealots and attack move when you are on top of the stalkers and sentries. While you do this, kite the zealots with your mm. The scvs will tank the stalkers and sentries, which would otherwise be attacking your mm while you are kiting. Engaging the zealots directly with your scvs is just a waste, because you should be kiting them with your mm anyways; you are just giving them free shots. | ||
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