EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 63
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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NevenGaming
Norway29 Posts
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Waah
United States120 Posts
On November 08 2011 03:31 MasonosaM wrote: For TvZ I go reactor hellion getting out 2 hellion if small map, 4 if big. My question is what is the best follow up in terms of denying/ killing the third? I throw down two more barrack after the swap and add tech and reactor to them, then grab combat shield. I push at around 3-4 tanks with my marines and combat shield. Should I be getting stim first? or should I wait for medivac? How do high level terrans follow up the hellions? Pushing with tanks and combat shield marines is fine. Stim is a big risk if you don't have medivacs out, since good Zergs will just dance back and forth until marines run out of stim and then attack, possibly saving the third as well. Don't know about how high level Terrans go about it. They can certainly do the same thing with stim because of their better micro though, I'm sure. On November 08 2011 03:31 MasonosaM wrote: Also, what should I do if the zerg is staying on two base for a really long time? I feel leery about venturing out when this happens and usually wait for a heavier push and for his third to go up instead of just moving out at the standard time. Should I still attempt to apply pressure in some way at around the 9-10 minute mark? Perhaps just taking the watch towers and back? Take a third, if it's long enough that he doesn't scout it and pressure before you benefit from the expo. Turtle up and he'll feel reluctant to attack into it, even if he scouts it later. Try drops if you still want to apply pressure; around 9~10 minutes mutas won't be out yet most of the time. Pushing out to kill a few tumors then retreating may also force units from Zerg, so I guess that works in the sense that it indirectly impacts his economy. Clearing the watchtowers does the same thing, but you can usually deny creep at the same time without a huge risk--send a few marines forward to do it. On November 08 2011 03:31 MasonosaM wrote: For TvP, I usually can macro just fine and do drops dealing damage without losing them, and I can be ahead in every way all game but when it comes to the big maxed engagements I somehow manage to fuck up more than 70% of the time. How should I go about attacking a maxed protoss army? I have the jist for the unit comps I need but my control of the maxed army just isn't up to par. If someone could give me a series of actions they do when attempting to engage that would be great or just describe it that would be awesome. I wouldn't attack a maxed Protoss army unless I had superior upgrades and micro to pull it off. I'm sure everyone has a good idea of how to engage a maxed Protoss army, but there's a lot more to it when you have to actually pull it off, so I'd play safe and start trading earlier. | ||
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MyLastSerenade
Germany710 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On November 08 2011 05:27 TheDwf wrote: Hi, Some comments about the game : a) You should stay in front of his natural with your Hellions, especially as you see the Roach Warren (you may need the few extra seconds to set up your defence in case he decides to attack straightaway with Roaches); b) About the push, there was no real reason to do it. The primary goal should be to get rid of the third, but given your respective spawn positions you can't really do that without risking being flanked, surrounded or simply countered (as you did not wall your natural before leaving out, something you absolutely need). This kind of 10' push should have a purpose, and here it had none. You sat in front of his base for two minuts doing nothing, so he got all the time he needed to make units and crush it. The proper way would have been to use the cliff; with an earlier Medivac, you may elevator some Marines to harass his mineral line while using Siege tanks to cover them. This way, there is a real threat with your push. c) From this point, he should be ahead, but thanks to his bad macro you could have still won... Problem is, at 14'30 you have 30 SCVs at your natural and 14 at your first base (meaning 6 of your SCVs are wasted). You have too much gas because you did not make a second Factory (which means you have a low Tank count since you lost some of them at your first push) and did not make a Reactor for your Starport. Then... d) For some reason, you feel the need to go and sit near the Xel'Naga Tower that he was holding (giving him full sight of your small army). You have only 3 tanks, so you will never be able to deal with all his lings/banelings at this point. Logically enough, your exposed army get swept away, because once again he got all the time he needed to make units and engage. In short, you are unnecessarily agressive (without actually being agressive, because there is no real threat in your pushes). You did not know it, but you had superior economy (because your opponent's macro is terrible) ; there was no need to go, you should have simply built a second Factory and a Sensor Tower to see the path leading to your third, waited for a higher Tank count and then try to go his natural. Be careful with those 10' pushes. They are not a "standard" thing, you should aim at something precise with them (not winning the game straightaway, unless the Zerg is bad; most of the time, it's simply a way to punish the Zerg player if he took too quickly his third). If you lose them without doing much damage, you will likely lose the game. On November 08 2011 05:18 Willzzz wrote: lol, you are so BM, learn to chill. Did you really need 2 bunkers when you had the xel'naga towers locked down with your hellions? I guess you were scared of roaches but they take a long time to cross the map with no real creep spread and you were making tanks anyway. Your push was kinda late and weak, when you saw you couldn't push into his base you should have either re-inforced or much safer just retreated back to base. Leaving such a small army in a vulnerable position is asking for trouble. No idea why you wasted a scan just to take a few pot shots on buildings with 1 tank. Later on you don't have enough production, I would recommend getting 2 factories myself. Tanks are so good in big numbers. You end the game with about 7 MULEs worth of energy on just 2 OC, that could have been a whole army of extra marines. thanks for the feedback, i will work on this, maybe i am just too frustrated atm~~ u just opened my eyes how bad i played there... when i see a roach warren i tend do overdefend because the allin with roach ling is so hard to hold, so i try to be safe as fast as possible.... | ||
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kYem
United Kingdom412 Posts
On November 08 2011 05:28 NevenGaming wrote: Does anybody have a good mech style TvT build they could share with me? Just started out as terran. MVP Build From MLG, before hellions were nerfed. It's still solid, however it really hard to defend against properly executed all-ins. ========== MVP Mech ========== 0:56 Supply 1:34 Barracks 2:36 OB 2:45 Refinery Marine 2:55 Supply Depot 3:40 Command Center 3:55 Refinery <<< ? Marine 4:12 Factory Marine 4:52 Tech Lab (Rax) 5:20 Starport 5:22 Orbital (swap factory with rax for tech lab) 5:26 Hellion+++++ (swap factory with rax for tech lab) 5:30 Infernal 5:34 Supply Depot Build reactor on rax Viking If you suspect Cloak Banshee, save scans ( usual cloak timing 7:10-7:30). After second viking, switch with factory and get raven Should have 3 factories by 9mins mark / 1 reactor ( from rax ) 2 tech lab ) Timings of what you should have at : 5min CC & Factory 5:10 Marine 5:08 3Marines 290M 180G 20scv 6 min Blue 21/110 Starport 52/60 Hellion 15/30 Reactor 20/50 4 Marines 90M 90G 7 min Blue 80/110 3 Hellion 10/30 6 Marines 150M 169G 28 SCV 8 min Ravem 18/60 4-5 Hellion 10/30 6 Marines 130M 105G 32 SCV 2 Factory 13/60 9 min Raven 8-9 Hellion 10/30 6 Marines 100M 337G 32 SCV It's very specific build and very good as well, you will need to do a lot of practise ultil you can execute it right, but once you do, you will have huge advantage over your opponents. Good Luck | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 08 2011 05:39 MyLastSerenade wrote: thanks for the feedback, i will work on this, maybe i am just too frustrated atm~~ u just opened my eyes how bad i played there... when i see a roach warren i tend do overdefend because the allin with roach ling is so hard to hold, so i try to be safe as fast as possible.... It was unlikely for the Zerg to roach all-in you because he used his Roach Warren as part of his wall. If he was to all-in you, he would have rather hidden his Roach Warren. | ||
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MyLastSerenade
Germany710 Posts
On November 08 2011 05:55 TheDwf wrote: It was unlikely for the Zerg to roach all-in you because he used his Roach Warren as part of his wall. If he was to all-in you, he would have rather hidden his Roach Warren. diamond zerg dont care i u scout their tech or not ~~ | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
Diamond players are often all about secrecy and surprise because they are desperate for the all-in to work, you know because it is all-in. A nice depot wall at the front combined with your hellions at the towers should enable you to buy enough time to defend such an all-in anyway. It's only really a big deal if you are going a really greedy play like 3 OC. | ||
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Barbeques
United States3 Posts
Hello fellow Terran players! This is my first post on TL after lurking for a few months. I'm a gold Terran player and am recently having massive trouble against Protoss. I recently went on a 6 win streak, and immediately afterwards went on a 6 loss streak, 4 of which were to Protoss. Here is one replay for you to analyze. I do know that my build order that game was poor, mostly because I was winging it. http://drop.sc/53722 Thanks for your time. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
You do a really weird opening, you are clearly setting up to expand, but your CC goes down pretty late. Have you tried doing a 1 rax expand? You scan his base at around 7 mins and see he is clearly 1 basing, that shouldn't trigger you to attack, but you do anyway. If he is on 1 base and you are on 2, you should prepare to defend and build up your army. If you are going to attack regardless then don't scan and use the MULE instead, you will find out what he has when your army gets there! When his prism comes in and your army is just outside his choke, I think you should just have a-moved up his ramp. You don't know what is up there, but it can't be that much if he has a full prism at your base. Ideally you should be able to multi-task, but even if your micro isn't up to that I think you will do OK. After you deal with the Prism you attack and do pretty well, but you run from his pathetic 4 stalker army, you should have killed them off with your marines. Marines are pretty good vs stalkers. You seem pretty surprised that he goes collosii, but surely that is pretty standard at gold? You have problems with your add-ons, tech-lab on factory for no reason, starport lands wrong. You are quite marine heavy which obv isn't great vs collosii. One thing to bear in mind is that collosii aren't great in small numbers and on open terrain. If you had held the watchtower you could have tried to surround and destroy the toss ball even without viking support. @ 16min when he only had 1 collosus in the middle I think you could have owned him with a nice surround. | ||
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Barbeques
United States3 Posts
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
Most of the time I can identify my mistakes & such, I've improved dramatically over the past couple of weeks (steamrolling friends who I couldn't hold a candle to before) but every now and then I'll go on a losing streak, lose to a 4 gate, or just something stupid. I desire better than this. But I feel like I've hit a plateau. I'm going to exceed, but the how eludes me What have you done that's greatly benefited you/what do you suggest I focus on more than anything else? Also, usually in games (especially tvz on metalopolis), if I just focus on macro, the opponent auto-wins. but when I try to do everything, I have a crappy push to zerg 3rd or a great push with awful macro. What's the most effective way of improving? focusing solely, completely 100% on macro & then throwing in micro when I can while disregarding the short-term game, or just mass-gaming at this "everything" state? | ||
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NevenGaming
Norway29 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On November 08 2011 05:43 kYem wrote: On November 08 2011 05:28 NevenGaming wrote: Does anybody have a good mech style TvT build they could share with me? Just started out as terran. MVP Build From MLG, before hellions were nerfed. It's still solid, however it really hard to defend against properly executed all-ins. ========== MVP Mech ========== 0:56 Supply 1:34 Barracks 2:36 OB 2:45 Refinery Marine 2:55 Supply Depot 3:40 Command Center 3:55 Refinery <<< ? Marine 4:12 Factory Marine 4:52 Tech Lab (Rax) 5:20 Starport 5:22 Orbital (swap factory with rax for tech lab) 5:26 Hellion+++++ (swap factory with rax for tech lab) 5:30 Infernal 5:34 Supply Depot Build reactor on rax Viking If you suspect Cloak Banshee, save scans ( usual cloak timing 7:10-7:30). After second viking, switch with factory and get raven Should have 3 factories by 9mins mark / 1 reactor ( from rax ) 2 tech lab ) Timings of what you should have at : 5min CC & Factory 5:10 Marine 5:08 3Marines 290M 180G 20scv 6 min Blue 21/110 Starport 52/60 Hellion 15/30 Reactor 20/50 4 Marines 90M 90G 7 min Blue 80/110 3 Hellion 10/30 6 Marines 150M 169G 28 SCV 8 min Ravem 18/60 4-5 Hellion 10/30 6 Marines 130M 105G 32 SCV 2 Factory 13/60 9 min Raven 8-9 Hellion 10/30 6 Marines 100M 337G 32 SCV It's very specific build and very good as well, you will need to do a lot of practise ultil you can execute it right, but once you do, you will have huge advantage over your opponents. Good Luck Thank you very much, looks interesting gonna try it out :D | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On November 08 2011 15:03 KurtistheTurtle wrote: What have you done that's greatly benefited you/what do you suggest I focus on more than anything else? Also, usually in games (especially tvz on metalopolis), if I just focus on macro, the opponent auto-wins. but when I try to do everything, I have a crappy push to zerg 3rd or a great push with awful macro. What's the most effective way of improving? focusing solely, completely 100% on macro & then throwing in micro when I can while disregarding the short-term game, or just mass-gaming at this "everything" state? It varies from person to person, but to improve, I did a number of things: 1) Spend a few games focusing on 1 element of your play: I focused on one element of my gameplay at a time, rather than trying to do something broad and difficult like "Macro Better" (which obviously you want to do but is hard). I'd do something like say "Next game, I literally will not get supply blocked for the first 100 food" and I'd keep on trying until I was finally able to go up to the mid-game without getting supply blocked at all. Something like "Micro" or "Macro" is far too broad. Other 1-element goals I had included "Expand every 6 minutes", "never let my resource count go above 800 minerals" "always be producing scvs" "don't cut upgrades" and others. Eventually, I was able to do all of these at once and THEN I had good macro. Take time to break down what macro's made up of rather than just trying to "macro better"-- like how a basketball player spends a lot of time practicing form, jumping, doing free throws, doing layups, etc, rather than just trying to "shoot better": do it in pieces. 2) Watch your losing replays: I watch all the replays in which I lose, even if it's obvious that I just got surprised by a 4gate. I usually wait until the end of my ladder session, though sometimes I'll watch it right away if I'm confused how I lost. The important part is to realize exactly how you lost, look through your own eyes and see what you scouted, etc. I keep a little notepad open to track what went wrong and what I will do better next time. Sometimes the notes for a match go "No expo at 5:00, but I scouted only 1 gas. This is probably 4gate, need to make bunkers in this situation" EVEN if I already know that. I'm a crappy learner and this is how I make myself learn. Stop to review losing replays-- even obvious ones can teach you how to avoid losing situations. 3) Identify and work on your weaknesses: If you find yourself losing macro games against Z on metalopolis, grab a zerg practice partner or friend and spam macro games against him until you can win, or until you improve. Try to do this with someone at or around your level. Better than you is OK, but worse than you won't teach you much. You won't become better at certain playstyles without giving them a try. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
With the P key so far away, I always struggle to find it in panic mode to split vs Banelings. Tried rebinding it to F which works fine but this means my ghosts are incapable of holding fire to spam snipes. Both of these are vital in TvZ so it's not like I can pause for a few secs at the beginning of each game to readjust. Any key suggestions that won't affect other keys? I play every other key on default. | ||
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NevenGaming
Norway29 Posts
On November 09 2011 03:44 S_SienZ wrote: Hey guys, I was wondering if any of you rebinded your patrol key, and if so, please share. With the P key so far away, I always struggle to find it in panic mode to split vs Banelings. Tried rebinding it to F which works fine but this means my ghosts are incapable of holding fire to spam snipes. Both of these are vital in TvZ so it's not like I can pause for a few secs at the beginning of each game to readjust. Any key suggestions that won't affect other keys? I play every other key on default. Do you use spacebar? It may be good, havent tried it tough. But i dont use space bar for recent events.. idk if you do. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On November 09 2011 03:44 S_SienZ wrote: Hey guys, I was wondering if any of you rebinded your patrol key, and if so, please share. With the P key so far away, I always struggle to find it in panic mode to split vs Banelings. Tried rebinding it to F which works fine but this means my ghosts are incapable of holding fire to spam snipes. Both of these are vital in TvZ so it's not like I can pause for a few secs at the beginning of each game to readjust. Any key suggestions that won't affect other keys? I play every other key on default. I rebound it to Q initially, since I don't use Q for anything, but it can be awkward since it's near A.you could also consider moving it to like Y or something that's closer than P but not interfering with the main hotkey area. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
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kORALIE
Belgium16 Posts
edit: I've been doing this build: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Rax_Pressure It feels decent I guess. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
On November 09 2011 03:05 Blazinghand wrote: It varies from person to person, but to improve, I did a number of things: 1) Spend a few games focusing on 1 element of your play: I focused on one element of my gameplay at a time, rather than trying to do something broad and difficult like "Macro Better" (which obviously you want to do but is hard). I'd do something like say "Next game, I literally will not get supply blocked for the first 100 food" and I'd keep on trying until I was finally able to go up to the mid-game without getting supply blocked at all. Something like "Micro" or "Macro" is far too broad. Other 1-element goals I had included "Expand every 6 minutes", "never let my resource count go above 800 minerals" "always be producing scvs" "don't cut upgrades" and others. Eventually, I was able to do all of these at once and THEN I had good macro. Take time to break down what macro's made up of rather than just trying to "macro better"-- like how a basketball player spends a lot of time practicing form, jumping, doing free throws, doing layups, etc, rather than just trying to "shoot better": do it in pieces. 2) Watch your losing replays: I watch all the replays in which I lose, even if it's obvious that I just got surprised by a 4gate. I usually wait until the end of my ladder session, though sometimes I'll watch it right away if I'm confused how I lost. The important part is to realize exactly how you lost, look through your own eyes and see what you scouted, etc. I keep a little notepad open to track what went wrong and what I will do better next time. Sometimes the notes for a match go "No expo at 5:00, but I scouted only 1 gas. This is probably 4gate, need to make bunkers in this situation" EVEN if I already know that. I'm a crappy learner and this is how I make myself learn. Stop to review losing replays-- even obvious ones can teach you how to avoid losing situations. 3) Identify and work on your weaknesses: If you find yourself losing macro games against Z on metalopolis, grab a zerg practice partner or friend and spam macro games against him until you can win, or until you improve. Try to do this with someone at or around your level. Better than you is OK, but worse than you won't teach you much. You won't become better at certain playstyles without giving them a try. thankyou for the insightful response! ill get to work | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
I'm getting so frustrated by my inability to improve. I've been at plat for about 1000 ladder games and cannot improve, and many of my losses feel like this one where someone all ins me, fails, and then I still lose. I made harvesters conservatively during his push because it seemed like he was all-in. I followed the Artosis "When you're ahead, get more ahead" and took an easy gold while the toss turtled on 2 bases. I was 50 food ahead and ahead on upgrades in the final battle (even more ahead when you consider that attack upgrades are basically useless against terran) and got demolished. Like, he left the battle with 40 food in immortals and stalkers while I lost my whole 120 food army. I'm really struggling and don't know what to do to get better. When I do drills on the side for my macro, I can match the pros' supply counts at each minute but somehow it doesn't seem to translate to wins. I really don't know what to do anymore and am considering quitting the game. Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/55059 | ||
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