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I would really like to hear some feedback to this replay: http://drop.sc/39598
I had a fun evening of TvP yesterday and except for one all went for some variation of a 2 base timing attack with 2-3 immortals and i got crushed. First game i went cloaked banshees and it ended in him just all out destroying my base with the push. So i went and played bio, like i do in the replay. I tried to pressure him with an early marine/marauder attack with stim, wich got annihilated and from then on he contained me. I'm only silver so i'm aware that there are some flaws in my play. I probably shouldn't tried to engage on my ramp and maybe i should have gotten medivacs but i felt that i was so far behind from the first engagement on and was afraid of him just pushing up my choke and kill me, so i tried to pump out as many units as i could.
I tried to find some BO to this sort of build but i couldn't find one, so if anybody had a link for me where i could find some more information about this (new?) immortal push i would really appreciate it.
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On October 01 2011 05:06 Blazinghand wrote:
If you have a strategy that relies on some sort of surprising timing and you have to face the same opponent in a Bo3 or something, you should probably change tactics in the 2nd game. If you're not willing to go with marine/tank and would rather stick with full mech, you have additional options such as getting some upgrades and making a later timing attack, getting a third and going for a 200/200 push, and changing your composition by adding siege tanks, and eventually ghosts and vikings to deal with zerg T3/infestor.
thanx but the thing is, if i go for a 200/200 push and just sit back to macro, he might hide his tech thus not allowing my to know what he is up to, If i just leave him be, he might get too many broods and not be able to respond, just because he has the choice of w8ing till I make my move to determine what he wants to produce...
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 01 2011 08:04 policymaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 05:06 Blazinghand wrote:
If you have a strategy that relies on some sort of surprising timing and you have to face the same opponent in a Bo3 or something, you should probably change tactics in the 2nd game. If you're not willing to go with marine/tank and would rather stick with full mech, you have additional options such as getting some upgrades and making a later timing attack, getting a third and going for a 200/200 push, and changing your composition by adding siege tanks, and eventually ghosts and vikings to deal with zerg T3/infestor. thanx but the thing is, if i go for a 200/200 push and just sit back to macro, he might hide his tech thus not allowing my to know what he is up to, If i just leave him be, he might get too many broods and not be able to respond, just because he has the choice of w8ing till I make my move to determine what he wants to produce...
Hm. That's a fair point. When I go for a 200/200 mech push off 3 bases in TvZ, I make aggressive use of blue flame hellions to run by and to drop and harass his army and mineral line, and clear creep tumors. This 1) forces him to make units rather than just drone 2) lets me see what he's up to and 3) gives me starport tech, which lets me produce vikings as necessary.
Remember that although the zerg player needs to scout and react to the terran, no build exists in a vacuum-- the onus is on you as well to play reactively, and to do your best to counter what he's doing. MAKE him produce units rather than drones. Also, small pushes with hellions and tanks are acceptable as well. If you see your opponent not making anything, go assert some map presence, make him make units, then head home.
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On October 01 2011 05:06 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 04:10 upperbound wrote:
Any tips in TvZ against 2 base aggression (both roach and ling)? I've been running into this style a lot lately and trying to counter it with a quick in-base expo. By the end of the aggro I'm usually about even on harvesters, but I've been well behind on income due to the 1 base v. 2 base situation. This gets even worse when some zergs have used the contain to throw up a hatchery at my natural, which keeps my 2nd delayed even further while I wait for the creep to recede.
This strategy has been killing me lately and I was wondering if anyone has been particularly successful. Hm. It sounds to me like you might not be making enough production facilities, or might be expanding too slowly. It's hard to tell without a replay, though. If you upload a replay to a site like drop.sc or star2.org and post it here I can take a look. What opening build order are you using?
I've been learning to open reaper expand lately, and have dipped back into plat from diamond while I've been working a bit on my mechanics. I'm not sure what my biggest mistake was in this game other than some sloppy points (letting worker production slip for 30 seconds around the first push; indecisiveness about tech path probably hurt a bit as I transitioned out of the early game, my facts were definitely slow; losing my reaper to an unexpected number of lings). I generally tend toward mech more because I play better in a more positional style.
That said, I'm not sure where I was supposed to exploit any windows here. The other big mistake was letting the second round of lings get in, but it's so damn hard to get a wall-off on this map at the natural ramp and I couldn't sim city at the main ramp due to creep spread.
Was this a case of a few small mistakes building up or is there more to it than that?
EDIT: forgot replay link: http://drop.sc/39602
EDIT2: just to preempt comments, this guy knew this was frustration and not BM at the end of the game; we'd played a few times before and had a long discussion after the game.
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On October 01 2011 08:11 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 08:04 policymaker wrote:On October 01 2011 05:06 Blazinghand wrote:
If you have a strategy that relies on some sort of surprising timing and you have to face the same opponent in a Bo3 or something, you should probably change tactics in the 2nd game. If you're not willing to go with marine/tank and would rather stick with full mech, you have additional options such as getting some upgrades and making a later timing attack, getting a third and going for a 200/200 push, and changing your composition by adding siege tanks, and eventually ghosts and vikings to deal with zerg T3/infestor. thanx but the thing is, if i go for a 200/200 push and just sit back to macro, he might hide his tech thus not allowing my to know what he is up to, If i just leave him be, he might get too many broods and not be able to respond, just because he has the choice of w8ing till I make my move to determine what he wants to produce... Hm. That's a fair point. When I go for a 200/200 mech push off 3 bases in TvZ, I make aggressive use of blue flame hellions to run by and to drop and harass his army and mineral line, and clear creep tumors. This 1) forces him to make units rather than just drone 2) lets me see what he's up to and 3) gives me starport tech, which lets me produce vikings as necessary. Remember that although the zerg player needs to scout and react to the terran, no build exists in a vacuum-- the onus is on you as well to play reactively, and to do your best to counter what he's doing. MAKE him produce units rather than drones. Also, small pushes with hellions and tanks are acceptable as well. If you see your opponent not making anything, go assert some map presence, make him make units, then head home.
blue flame harrass get difficult with mutas or later in the game how can it be efficient?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 01 2011 08:33 policymaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 08:11 Blazinghand wrote:On October 01 2011 08:04 policymaker wrote:On October 01 2011 05:06 Blazinghand wrote:
If you have a strategy that relies on some sort of surprising timing and you have to face the same opponent in a Bo3 or something, you should probably change tactics in the 2nd game. If you're not willing to go with marine/tank and would rather stick with full mech, you have additional options such as getting some upgrades and making a later timing attack, getting a third and going for a 200/200 push, and changing your composition by adding siege tanks, and eventually ghosts and vikings to deal with zerg T3/infestor. thanx but the thing is, if i go for a 200/200 push and just sit back to macro, he might hide his tech thus not allowing my to know what he is up to, If i just leave him be, he might get too many broods and not be able to respond, just because he has the choice of w8ing till I make my move to determine what he wants to produce... Hm. That's a fair point. When I go for a 200/200 mech push off 3 bases in TvZ, I make aggressive use of blue flame hellions to run by and to drop and harass his army and mineral line, and clear creep tumors. This 1) forces him to make units rather than just drone 2) lets me see what he's up to and 3) gives me starport tech, which lets me produce vikings as necessary. Remember that although the zerg player needs to scout and react to the terran, no build exists in a vacuum-- the onus is on you as well to play reactively, and to do your best to counter what he's doing. MAKE him produce units rather than drones. Also, small pushes with hellions and tanks are acceptable as well. If you see your opponent not making anything, go assert some map presence, make him make units, then head home. blue flame harrass get difficult with mutas or later in the game how can it be efficient?
Well, if he's made mutalisks, then your problem is solved!  If he's denying your blue flame with mutalisks, you can just run your hellions home, and you have both A) forced him to make units and B) scouted what those units are. In fact, assuming he's stopping your drops/runbys using just mutas, doing this or at least attempting to do this will force his mutalisks to chase your slightly-faster hellions around the map, letting you both control his mutalisk position and prevent harass, but also keep track of HOW MANY mutalisks he has, and make thors appropriately.
You didn't ask me to make your units efficient, just to get scouting information and deal with the zerg not making units. Plus, you'll have blue flame hellions to spare-- as you lose them, gradually replacing some of your excess hellions with more tanks and thors is great.
To the replay posters-- I'll be getting to you a little later than usual. I'm doing a live coaching tonight at 6:00 (in 1.5 hours) instead of my usual replay reviews when I get home-- but I'll still be getting to the replays by about 8:00.
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good points raised, thanx
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Just wanted to get people's thoughts on how the patch affected things. I'm high masters atm. Seems like any sort of bunker pressure vs Z is absolutely crap, and 2 rax is completely dead. 2 rax pressure vs Toss feels very weak too. Even if they 1gate FE their 2 other gates finish as you attack them with 5 marines and a marauder and they have more units. Is FEing the only good way to go now? Does anyone know of any decent TvZ/ TvP builds after patch, besides reactor hellion FE?
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On October 01 2011 18:30 Scila wrote:
Just wanted to get people's thoughts on how the patch affected things. I'm high masters atm. Seems like any sort of bunker pressure vs Z is absolutely crap, and 2 rax is completely dead. 2 rax pressure vs Toss feels very weak too. Even if they 1gate FE their 2 other gates finish as you attack them with 5 marines and a marauder and they have more units. Is FEing the only good way to go now? Does anyone know of any decent TvZ/ TvP builds after patch, besides reactor hellion FE?
Don't notice any major difference. 11/11 is slightly worse but everything that worked before works now. Bunker pressure or just marine+scv pressure is still good.
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Hello, I am currently struggling on my TvZ particularly one of my openings the 11/12 barracks buil and am currently 12th in diamond. Normally I either do the reactor hellion build on large maps such as Tal'darim Altar and some of the other maps with wide ramps, and win above 50% of my games. I perform my 11/12 barracks build on some of the smaller maps such as Shattered Temple and Shakuras however my results are horrible. This is what usually happens.
(On 14 hatch)
10 Supply
11 Maka Rax
12 Rax
15 OC
When two barracks are done push with 1 marine and 3 scvs while making a supply and queuing marines.
I place down two bunkers.
Zerg pulls all drones, forces my marine back while sending 2-3 drones to kill bunkering scvs. Zerglings pop rush is over.
I go 2 rax 2 gas cc then stim but the zerg has plenty of time to drone up then tech up or grab a third while I can't harass.
Am doing something wrong, or is the 2 rax just not effective anymore?
Thanks
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 02 2011 07:46 MaximusMInd wrote:
Hello, I am currently struggling on my TvZ particularly one of my openings the 11/12
[long written description of some game]
Am doing something wrong, or is the 2 rax just not effective anymore?
Thanks
If you supply a replay, I'll be able to let you know. As it stands, it's hard to evaluate what's going wrong-- after all, you don't know what's wrong, and you wrote the description-- so we're working off of the information of someone who doesn't know what's going on. With a replay, we'll be able to look at cold, hard, smooth, sleek, sexy facts and evaluate what happened. Post one up at drop.sc or star2.org or something and link it here when you get the chance.
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On October 02 2011 07:46 MaximusMInd wrote:
Hello, I am currently struggling on my TvZ particularly one of my openings the 11/12 barracks buil and am currently 12th in diamond. Normally I either do the reactor hellion build on large maps such as Tal'darim Altar and some of the other maps with wide ramps, and win above 50% of my games. I perform my 11/12 barracks build on some of the smaller maps such as Shattered Temple and Shakuras however my results are horrible. This is what usually happens.
(On 14 hatch)
10 Supply
11 Maka Rax
12 Rax
15 OC
When two barracks are done push with 1 marine and 3 scvs while making a supply and queuing marines.
I place down two bunkers.
Zerg pulls all drones, forces my marine back while sending 2-3 drones to kill bunkering scvs. Zerglings pop rush is over.
I go 2 rax 2 gas cc then stim but the zerg has plenty of time to drone up then tech up or grab a third while I can't harass.
Am doing something wrong, or is the 2 rax just not effective anymore?
Thanks
2 rax doesnt work anymore, I wouldnt use it at all. You might get lucky and catch a REALLY greedy zerg off guard with 2 rax, but otherwise no. Gas openings is the way to go now, or FE without gas.
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The 5fact demuslim style I was referring to he goes through in detail in one of the episodes of the ESL TV: All eyes on DeMusliM show. I think it was one of the earlier episodes... maybe week 2 or so?
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On October 02 2011 08:31 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 07:46 MaximusMInd wrote:
Hello, I am currently struggling on my TvZ particularly one of my openings the 11/12 barracks buil and am currently 12th in diamond. Normally I either do the reactor hellion build on large maps such as Tal'darim Altar and some of the other maps with wide ramps, and win above 50% of my games. I perform my 11/12 barracks build on some of the smaller maps such as Shattered Temple and Shakuras however my results are horrible. This is what usually happens.
(On 14 hatch)
10 Supply
11 Maka Rax
12 Rax
15 OC
When two barracks are done push with 1 marine and 3 scvs while making a supply and queuing marines.
I place down two bunkers.
Zerg pulls all drones, forces my marine back while sending 2-3 drones to kill bunkering scvs. Zerglings pop rush is over.
I go 2 rax 2 gas cc then stim but the zerg has plenty of time to drone up then tech up or grab a third while I can't harass.
Am doing something wrong, or is the 2 rax just not effective anymore?
Thanks 2 rax doesnt work anymore, I wouldnt use it at all. You might get lucky and catch a REALLY greedy zerg off guard with 2 rax, but otherwise no. Gas openings is the way to go now, or FE without gas.
Yea, 2-raxing isn't as strong as before, with the rax build time nerf. Plus, zergs are just really used to it and have gotten good at defending it. If you wan't to 2-rax at all, I think going double proxied 11/11 or even 9/9 is the best choice.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Blazinghand's Replay Analysis
Alright guys, It's been a while since my last post like this, so here's deal: post a replay of you losing to something in this thread, along with your own analysis, and I'll make a 10-15 minute coaching video in which I go over your replay, along with some written notes. On deck today is Kuijan, KenDM, and UpperBound.
On October 01 2011 07:11 Kuijan wrote:I would really like to hear some feedback to this replay: http://drop.sc/39598I had a fun evening of TvP yesterday and except for one all went for some variation of a 2 base timing attack with 2-3 immortals and i got crushed. First game i went cloaked banshees and it ended in him just all out destroying my base with the push. So i went and played bio, like i do in the replay. I tried to pressure him with an early marine/marauder attack with stim, wich got annihilated and from then on he contained me. I'm only silver so i'm aware that there are some flaws in my play. I probably shouldn't tried to engage on my ramp and maybe i should have gotten medivacs but i felt that i was so far behind from the first engagement on and was afraid of him just pushing up my choke and kill me, so i tried to pump out as many units as i could. I tried to find some BO to this sort of build but i couldn't find one, so if anybody had a link for me where i could find some more information about this (new?) immortal push i would really appreciate it.
Hi Kuijan,
I took a look at your replay and made a Coaching VoD:
Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/296467810
Embedded Video Link (youtube):
+ Show Spoiler +
Some non-comprehensive written notes:
Walling with barracks isn't great due to the thread of imbarays.
3 rax stim allin is very coinflippy; can die to forcefields, and if you're getting an expo, I recommend only 2 rax until the expand.
You lost a lot of army unnecessarily during your allin. this hamstrings you later on, when you should have a pretty large army.
The pressure that comes later is damaging due to lack of medivacs. You overstim quite a bit, and your medivacs are really late. Until you have medivacs, your stims are really damaging. You didn't lose this game to an immortal push, but rather, your units getting killed slowly by your stimpack.
you lost this game to stimpack. Medivacs should a goal.
On September 30 2011 23:27 KenDM wrote:I lost a game to a very, very quick baneling bust today. And lings flowing in. All the while he was on one base. Can someone please take a look? I was even rushing tanks, so I think I had the right defenses for both Banelings and Roaches. Even called SCV's for repairs ... http://drop.sc/39218
Hi KenDM,
I took a look at your replay and made a Coaching VoD:
Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/296467274
Embedded Video Link (youtube):
+ Show Spoiler +
Some non-comprehensive written notes:
how to scout a baneling allin: you saw he didn't have an expo, and mined gas after 100 gas, which means hes getting banelings, roaches, or a fast lair
you also saw a bunch of lings and a baneling nest with your subsequent scout
that being said, against a baneling bust, your number one goal is to wall as hard as possible. I'd add more production facilities as part of the wall, as well as a bunker, so that he can't actually get into your base.
On October 01 2011 08:11 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 05:06 Blazinghand wrote:On October 01 2011 04:10 upperbound wrote:
Any tips in TvZ against 2 base aggression (both roach and ling)? I've been running into this style a lot lately and trying to counter it with a quick in-base expo. By the end of the aggro I'm usually about even on harvesters, but I've been well behind on income due to the 1 base v. 2 base situation. This gets even worse when some zergs have used the contain to throw up a hatchery at my natural, which keeps my 2nd delayed even further while I wait for the creep to recede.
This strategy has been killing me lately and I was wondering if anyone has been particularly successful. Hm. It sounds to me like you might not be making enough production facilities, or might be expanding too slowly. It's hard to tell without a replay, though. If you upload a replay to a site like drop.sc or star2.org and post it here I can take a look. What opening build order are you using? I've been learning to open reaper expand lately, and have dipped back into plat from diamond while I've been working a bit on my mechanics. I'm not sure what my biggest mistake was in this game other than some sloppy points (letting worker production slip for 30 seconds around the first push; indecisiveness about tech path probably hurt a bit as I transitioned out of the early game, my facts were definitely slow; losing my reaper to an unexpected number of lings). I generally tend toward mech more because I play better in a more positional style. That said, I'm not sure where I was supposed to exploit any windows here. The other big mistake was letting the second round of lings get in, but it's so damn hard to get a wall-off on this map at the natural ramp and I couldn't sim city at the main ramp due to creep spread. Was this a case of a few small mistakes building up or is there more to it than that? EDIT: forgot replay link: http://drop.sc/39602EDIT2: just to preempt comments, this guy knew this was frustration and not BM at the end of the game; we'd played a few times before and had a long discussion after the game.
Hi UpperBound,
I took a look at your replay and made a Coaching VoD:
Stream VoD Link (twitch.tv): http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/296467558
Embedded Video Link (youtube):
+ Show Spoiler +
Some non-comprehensive written notes:
at 10:00 you have one (1) production facility. this is game-losingly bad
Make more than 1 barracks, or start adding on factories or something. With only one production facility, you will not be able too produce the units neccessary to stop the zerg from doing anything at all.
use mules; they're OP.
Hope this helps. I think I've caught up with everyone who's posted a replay this week. Keep on getting better, fellow Terrans!
<3
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Hey thanks Blazinghand. I saw your VoD in my Youtube inbox and watched it that instant :D
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On October 02 2011 22:04 Nightshake wrote:Hey guys ! I got nomatched by Nerchio. And i just have no idea how i could have win. He had more drones, more army all the time. I just didnt know how to drop and how and when to attack. Here is the replay : http://dl.free.fr/getfile.pl?file=/4Ps91sGa(click on "télécharger ce fichier" ) Thx for helping me !
You're probably going to have to upload it here http://drop.sc/, or some other starcraft 2 replay site like http://www.sc2-replays.net/en/replays/ =)
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What is the best way to counter HT's if you are in a very squeezed spot (lets say you are defending your natural). It's very difficult to get some money emp's out 
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EPT
