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On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields.
No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry.
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On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry.
A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two.
Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers.
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On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers.
You can also wall off the front of your bunkers with depots, something I've seen a few top terrans do against zealot heavy aggression.
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On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers.
You seem to be missing the point of my question. I can scout the 5gate easily enough, the point is an early 5gate forces you into your main unless you blindly build a second bunker before the scout. And if the protoss knows you have scouted it an just evacuated your natural, he can simply contain you with his first warpin while teching up and expanding. And you are stuck in your main until Medivacs are out at around the 9 minute mark.
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On December 17 2012 01:14 Westy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers. You seem to be missing the point of my question. I can scout the 5gate easily enough, the point is an early 5gate forces you into your main unless you blindly build a second bunker before the scout. And if the protoss knows you have scouted it an just evacuated your natural, he can simply contain you with his first warpin while teching up and expanding. And you are stuck in your main until Medivacs are out at around the 9 minute mark.
A 5 gate shouldn´t force you up into your main. You can also easily hold a 4 gate with a second bunker. Just add 1-2 bunkers if you don´t see an expand and have your scvs ready to repair if he expand later you can always salvage the bunkers. For this kind of allin i always transfer about 4 scvs from my main to the natural in order to have more scvs qucikly for repair.
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On December 17 2012 01:14 Westy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers. You seem to be missing the point of my question. I can scout the 5gate easily enough, the point is an early 5gate forces you into your main unless you blindly build a second bunker before the scout. And if the protoss knows you have scouted it an just evacuated your natural, he can simply contain you with his first warpin while teching up and expanding. And you are stuck in your main until Medivacs are out at around the 9 minute mark.
Uhhh no... you should see it, and second bunker because of no FE. It'll be done or close to done by the time he moves across the map. It isn't blindly... you scout with the scv. No stalker, so the SCV should stay alive long enough to see well it's not a 1 gate FE, and probably has 1 gas. It isn't like unheard of to not send a second SCV if you don't get out and don't see an FE or stalker...
You shouldn't be shooed out without the presence of a stalker for a lot longer with a sentry.
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Hey people, I am getting back into this game, want to practice my stutter step but am noticing that qxc's map is nowhere to be found. Anyone have any replacement tools that they have been using?
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On December 17 2012 04:47 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 01:14 Westy wrote:On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers. You seem to be missing the point of my question. I can scout the 5gate easily enough, the point is an early 5gate forces you into your main unless you blindly build a second bunker before the scout. And if the protoss knows you have scouted it an just evacuated your natural, he can simply contain you with his first warpin while teching up and expanding. And you are stuck in your main until Medivacs are out at around the 9 minute mark. Uhhh no... you should see it, and second bunker because of no FE. It'll be done or close to done by the time he moves across the map. It isn't blindly... you scout with the scv. No stalker, so the SCV should stay alive long enough to see well it's not a 1 gate FE, and probably has 1 gas. It isn't like unheard of to not send a second SCV if you don't get out and don't see an FE or stalker... You shouldn't be shooed out without the presence of a stalker for a lot longer with a sentry.
Then you are definitely missing the point of my question. The 5gate comes with a stalker and a second gas.
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Gold league terran need TvZ tips
Basically i went for the Forgg helion banshee opening, I delayed his 3rd for a significant amount of time.
I transitioned into marine tank and he went for roach hydra. Can anyone tell me where I did wrong? All I've identified so far is that a small group of my army was caught out of positioned once, and at that time, he just gained the momemtum to push me on. I know this is only a gold league game, we both have bad macro and will be a boring game, but please take the time to help out a desperate terran. Thanks in advance.
Here's the replay http://drop.sc/285134
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On December 17 2012 12:41 Westy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 04:47 iAmJeffReY wrote:On December 17 2012 01:14 Westy wrote:On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers. You seem to be missing the point of my question. I can scout the 5gate easily enough, the point is an early 5gate forces you into your main unless you blindly build a second bunker before the scout. And if the protoss knows you have scouted it an just evacuated your natural, he can simply contain you with his first warpin while teching up and expanding. And you are stuck in your main until Medivacs are out at around the 9 minute mark. Uhhh no... you should see it, and second bunker because of no FE. It'll be done or close to done by the time he moves across the map. It isn't blindly... you scout with the scv. No stalker, so the SCV should stay alive long enough to see well it's not a 1 gate FE, and probably has 1 gas. It isn't like unheard of to not send a second SCV if you don't get out and don't see an FE or stalker... You shouldn't be shooed out without the presence of a stalker for a lot longer with a sentry. Then you are definitely missing the point of my question. The 5gate comes with a stalker and a second gas.
What exactly is your question? How to stop the attack?
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I've recently come back to the game and am still Gold after placement (and I think it's about accurate). I used to use a simple 10 minute push, the one from FilterSC's tutorials. It's a simple Rax > Expo > 2 Rax > Fact > Port. It pushes at 10 mins with Stim, ~40 Marines and 2 Medivacs (also can use Marauders vs. Toss of course).
I played a few games with it and I may just be seeing things, but it feels a lot less effective than it used to be. I'd also like to start having 1 build against each race. Is there a place to get a basic, macro oriented build against each race?
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what are the procedures to holding off a blink allin? when going standard 1 rax expo - add two rax - double gas... i get crusshhed everything time a protoss goes blink stalker allin
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On December 17 2012 01:14 Westy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 00:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:On December 16 2012 23:47 Westy wrote:On December 16 2012 23:13 Sianos wrote:On December 16 2012 22:19 Westy wrote:
How do you deal with a protoss going 5gate? I can scout it easily enough, but then their sentry kills of my scouting SCV and I am in the dark. I lift off and bunker up in my main, but then the protoss can simply expand while holding me in my base and teching up to chargelot archon. I end up behind in eco and the 2medivac push will be weaker. If you are talking about 5 gate, i asume you are talking about a 2 base protoss. If this is the case, evacuating to your main is the wrong choice, since he´ll be ahead of you. Try to bunker up your natural and have scvs ready to instantly repair your bunkers. You can also experiment with depots or scvs in front of your bunkers, to prevent the zealots from reaching your bunkers. It´s also important to spread them out, so that he has to use more force fields. No I am talking about one base 5gate, zealot sentry. A sentry shouldn't instantly kill the scv. If you don't see a nexus, rescout. If you don't see an FE, you make another bunker, or two. Keep map control and a marine patrolling the standard p-pylon spots, once you spot zeal/sentry, surround bunkers and start up another. Target sentries with bunkers. You seem to be missing the point of my question. I can scout the 5gate easily enough, the point is an early 5gate forces you into your main unless you blindly build a second bunker before the scout. And if the protoss knows you have scouted it an just evacuated your natural, he can simply contain you with his first warpin while teching up and expanding. And you are stuck in your main until Medivacs are out at around the 9 minute mark.
If you have to "blindly" build a bunker before the scout, the you are, in fact not scouting it more than 30 seconds before it hits. This qualifies, in my opinion, as not being able to scout it. Leave the Protoss base before the stalker pops, hide your
SCV, and run it back into his base at the 5 minute mark. If you see 4 gates or more, make 2 more bunkers, place 8 SCVs in front of them on autorepair. Bunkers take 47 seconds, they should finish right as he begins attacking. He has to send units to escort the probe making the proxy pylon or you can just kill it, which is why you should easily be able to walk into his base at the 5 minute mark.
Either you aren't scouting it or you aren't responding to it correctly. Also, a 5 gate with 2 gas is peculiar, a replay would help
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Regarding 1 base all ins from Protoss like 4gate, 3gate robo or blink obs all in, does it put you behind if you retreat as a standard response to this kind of play from the Protoss side to your main and stay there till medivacs come out?
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On December 18 2012 14:02 Blk wrote:
Regarding 1 base all ins from Protoss like 4gate, 3gate robo or blink obs all in, does it put you behind if you retreat as a standard response to this kind of play from the Protoss side to your main and stay there till medivacs come out?
Absolutely not, actually in many cases even if you take a great deal of damage but squeeze out sufficient bio with medivacs you'll go on to win the game if you control your push properly.
Techless protoss versus bio with medivacs is a great proposition for you.
Also in many cases there is simply no choice but to go up to your main.
However you need to be sure of your scouting to pull up to your main.
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Hi guys,
im having huge problems with all ins right now. Especially in TvP. Usually i go for 1rax fe.
Against Toss im having difficulties against all sorts of all ins, especially finding out which one is coming. I scout their missing expansion and see three gates + 2 gas. However they proxy either the robo or the dark shrine. Even if i see a robo it could still be an immortal all in / warp prism / blink all in. I have no clue how to find a dark shrine/robo ever (could be hidden everywhere) since they have map control with stalkers against my marines.
Replays:
TvP Dark Templar: replay
I delay my engineering bay and got a 4th rax earlier because of immortal/warp prism all in, which lets my turrets come late ofc
TvP Immortal all in replay
I grab a bunker and marauders because i am unsure if its a weird blink into my main from the third (probably not possible because of the distance i realised later on?)
TvP 2 base 7gate all in replay
Do i have to scan every protoss main at around 7 minutes to check for possible gate all ins? I feel like its pretty tough to hold with my build, or can i manage it with enough bunkers?
I´d be really greatful for your help, it really is frustrating to lose to all ins so often.
Thanks in advance
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On December 18 2012 17:44 Bulugulu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 14:02 Blk wrote:
Regarding 1 base all ins from Protoss like 4gate, 3gate robo or blink obs all in, does it put you behind if you retreat as a standard response to this kind of play from the Protoss side to your main and stay there till medivacs come out? Absolutely not, actually in many cases even if you take a great deal of damage but squeeze out sufficient bio with medivacs you'll go on to win the game if you control your push properly. Techless protoss versus bio with medivacs is a great proposition for you. Also in many cases there is simply no choice but to go up to your main. However you need to be sure of your scouting to pull up to your main.
There is no reason to lift your natural against a 4 gate or immortal bust unless you screwed up. If Protoss expands, you can very easily end up behind if you don't respond immediately. This is difficult to do since you can't leave your base.
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On December 19 2012 00:11 U_G_L_Y wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 17:44 Bulugulu wrote:On December 18 2012 14:02 Blk wrote:
Regarding 1 base all ins from Protoss like 4gate, 3gate robo or blink obs all in, does it put you behind if you retreat as a standard response to this kind of play from the Protoss side to your main and stay there till medivacs come out? Absolutely not, actually in many cases even if you take a great deal of damage but squeeze out sufficient bio with medivacs you'll go on to win the game if you control your push properly. Techless protoss versus bio with medivacs is a great proposition for you. Also in many cases there is simply no choice but to go up to your main. However you need to be sure of your scouting to pull up to your main. There is no reason to lift your natural against a 4 gate or immortal bust unless you screwed up. If Protoss expands, you can very easily end up behind if you don't respond immediately. This is difficult to do since you can't leave your base.
Sure, but you can't know for sure which allin it's going to be. If you see a robo and aren't sure if it's warp prism/immortal/collo drop/dt drop/3 gate blink stalker observer you're going to have to split your army and then you can't hold your natural.
If you go into your main and he expands immediately, sure I guess you could end up behind but his tech will still be delayed which should allow you to kill/damage him with your medivac push. Also if he sticks around too long you can drop his main while he's out there and it's gg, or flank his army with medivacs.
The only way to hold your natural is if you know for certain which allin it's going to be, otherwise you have to split your forces and then you need to get lucky or die.
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When going for 11/11rax in TvZ on a 4-player map when should I send out my scouting worker to find their location? Should I then use that scv to build one of the 2 barracks?
If I don't kill the natural and/or hardly any workers and lose my bunkers/marines/scvs I should just leave right?
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Is it possible to hold 10 pool with CC first and late scouting (after rax)?
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EPT
