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On November 20 2012 18:33 BuffloBEAST wrote: How's it going everyone? I have been playing a lot of ladder recently and noticed that whenever my opponent in a TvP proxy gateways me, I lose even when I scout it. It seems that making a wall in around my workers is just no good on some maps as the zealots can find a small crack to get in. What is the easiest, most efficient way to shut this strategy down? If anyone knows of a replay where a professional holds it off that would probably be the most beneficial learning method.
If proxy gate is in base, just pull 4-5 scvs and take the gateway(not pylon because he can just throw up another one or two) and continue with 1 rax into whatever, have an scv follow the probe around to keep damaging it. If you scout it outside, just wall off with barracks and depot, and be prepared to repair (have your scv scout and see if the toss takes a gas and cyber at his base, this will let you know if you need a bunker or not). You can try to follow up with additional racks and hope to counter as his units will be late, but a good toss would cancel his gateway and build it straight in his base after he sees the proxy failed. It is easier to just continue with the 1 racks expand and have a bunker to defend, if defended properly you should have a slight lead.
On November 20 2012 18:33 BuffloBEAST wrote: How's it going everyone? I have been playing a lot of ladder recently and noticed that whenever my opponent in a TvP proxy gateways me, I lose even when I scout it. It seems that making a wall in around my workers is just no good on some maps as the zealots can find a small crack to get in. What is the easiest, most efficient way to shut this strategy down? If anyone knows of a replay where a professional holds it off that would probably be the most beneficial learning method.
If proxy gate is in base, just pull 4-5 scvs and take the gateway(not pylon because he can just throw up another one or two) and continue with 1 rax into whatever, have an scv follow the probe around to keep damaging it. If you scout it outside, just wall off with barracks and depot, and be prepared to repair (have your scv scout and see if the toss takes a gas and cyber at his base, this will let you know if you need a bunker or not). You can try to follow up with additional racks and hope to counter as his units will be late, but a good toss would cancel his gateway and build it straight in his base after he sees the proxy failed. It is easier to just continue with the 1 racks expand and have a bunker to defend, if defended properly you should have a slight lead.
On November 20 2012 18:33 BuffloBEAST wrote: How's it going everyone? I have been playing a lot of ladder recently and noticed that whenever my opponent in a TvP proxy gateways me, I lose even when I scout it. It seems that making a wall in around my workers is just no good on some maps as the zealots can find a small crack to get in. What is the easiest, most efficient way to shut this strategy down? If anyone knows of a replay where a professional holds it off that would probably be the most beneficial learning method.
I've been playing around with this and I suggest 4 SCVs per gate (assuming you attack it shortly after being started) since 5 SCVs will kill it shortly after it's finished and you want him to decide whether or not he'll try to chrono a zealot. If you attack with too much, he'll just cancel very cheaply whereas you lost a lot of mining time. Basically you want him to start the zealot but kill the gate before it's finished. Just play around with this. Maybe you can even start with 3 and add 2 if he starts the zeal. For the rest see the other posters. Walling your minerals doesn't help too much. It's obviously tough to hold if not scouted/scouted too late and you have no wall. Try a-move a bunch of SCVs onto the zeals and kite around (not away!) with your marines so they can't be attacked. Sometimes you can set your SCVs on hold position in narrow passages, messing up the zeals KI since it won't attack passive SCVs by default.
Hey guys! I've really had a lot of trouble lately against mech in TvT, and i really don't know how to go against it if they just build a pretty decent turret ring, i feel like i cant engage them because tanks are so good in large numbers, and hellions buffer a lot of damage, so i generally try to expand pretty aggressively, but that just doesn't seem to work either.
I lose the majority of the time against mech, help!
On November 22 2012 02:32 MonDeW wrote: Hey guys! I've really had a lot of trouble lately against mech in TvT, and i really don't know how to go against it if they just build a pretty decent turret ring, i feel like i cant engage them because tanks are so good in large numbers, and hellions buffer a lot of damage, so i generally try to expand pretty aggressively, but that just doesn't seem to work either.
I lose the majority of the time against mech, help!
1st: Expand more aggressive than him 2nd: Deny his expansions as long as possible or force trades every time he wants to expand
If he expands really fast, then it means that either he has a weak defense in his main or a small army. You have to capitalize on those mistakes and use either tanks on your own to contain or a lot of marauders to decimate his army little by little. You have to keep in mind, that you can max out a lot faster while going either bio or marine-tank and you have to use your income advantage to prevent him from getting a critical number of tanks and a good position on the map. A good example of bio vs. mech should be illusion vs fenix game 3 in WCS. Illusion showed an amazing bio play on daybreak against a turtleing fenix. Spreading your units before engaging and attacking from multiple angles is key and almost always will demolish approaching mech armies. You can´t play the passive game against mech, since you´ll give him the time he needs to build up his massive and stronger army.
On November 22 2012 04:27 Sianos wrote: If he expands really fast, then it means that either he has a weak defense in his main or a small army. You have to capitalize on those mistakes and use either tanks on your own to contain or a lot of marauders to decimate his army little by little. You have to keep in mind, that you can max out a lot faster while going either bio or marine-tank and you have to use your income advantage to prevent him from getting a critical number of tanks and a good position on the map. A good example of bio vs. mech should be illusion vs fenix game 3 in WCS. Illusion showed an amazing bio play on daybreak against a turtleing fenix. Spreading your units before engaging and attacking from multiple angles is key and almost always will demolish approaching mech armies. You can´t play the passive game against mech, since you´ll give him the time he needs to build up his massive and stronger army.
I have the same problem so I hope noone minds if I hijack his question Crushing someone you described is the easier mech version. I'm having trouble vs the really defensive ones. Recently I played someone who easily spend 800 mins in turrets + sensor tower and would perma scan my army if I was in his range. No chance of being sneaky or dropping his main so he could easily leapfrog forward and take his 3rd, later his 4th. Sure, I always had 2-3 bases more and was producing units way faster but at some point I have to trade my bio and usually get crushed so hard that he can roll to my outer bases undefended and siege up there. Unless I don't have the map covered in raxes, it's just not enough time to remax. Should I've transitioned to BCs faster and maybe just waste small squads so I can free up supply for vikings/bcs?
Hi everyone! 1st post don't be angry when i screw it up
Ive just started playing starcraft for a couple of weeks, Ive read alot on this forum and watch utube vids, but terrans and me doenst work well yet. Ive lost every ranking match till now with terrans (protos works well tho).
Matches go like metioned below :
1. I do the MMM-opening, because its safe and transition in easier 2. I sometimes even take my expansion. 3. I'm toast when the 1st wave comes every time.
Seems im have problems defending my base. My question is, how as a terran do i establish a good defence, which doesnt cost to much resources against zerg and protos? (p.s. walling in isnt the problem)
On November 23 2012 09:20 govie wrote: Hi everyone! 1st post don't be angry when i screw it up
Ive just started playing starcraft for a couple of weeks, Ive read alot on this forum and watch utube vids, but terrans and me doenst work well yet. Ive lost every ranking match till now with terrans (protos works well tho).
Matches go like metioned below :
1. I do the MMM-opening, because its safe and transition in easier 2. I sometimes even take my expansion. 3. I'm toast when the 1st wave comes every time.
Seems im have problems defending my base. My question is, how as a terran do i establish a good defence, which doesnt cost to much resources against zerg and protos? (p.s. walling in isnt the problem)
Thanks in advance,
govie
Your question is too general. The most important thing is scouting your opponent and if he doesn't fast expand (gasless) as well, you generally wanna have at least one bunker. If he goes allin, I'd increase this amount to three bunkers (depending on the specific kind of allin ofc) and be ready to pull workers to repair ASAP. It's always micro intensive but it gets easier once you get used to it. You can also wallin your bunkers with a depot wall so zealots and lings have less attack area. But don't do this on maps where you have no ramp like daybreak because ranged units will kill your depots and you can't do much about it.
On November 23 2012 09:20 govie wrote: Hi everyone! 1st post don't be angry when i screw it up
Ive just started playing starcraft for a couple of weeks, Ive read alot on this forum and watch utube vids, but terrans and me doenst work well yet. Ive lost every ranking match till now with terrans (protos works well tho).
Matches go like metioned below :
1. I do the MMM-opening, because its safe and transition in easier 2. I sometimes even take my expansion. 3. I'm toast when the 1st wave comes every time.
Seems im have problems defending my base. My question is, how as a terran do i establish a good defence, which doesnt cost to much resources against zerg and protos? (p.s. walling in isnt the problem)
Thanks in advance,
govie
Terran is a hard race to play. If you feel that you've been having more success with Protoss, go with Protoss. If you do decide to stick with Terran then here are some things you are doing wrong from what you said.
They are listed in order of importance.
1. You should ALWAYS take expansions. Go look up the build order for 1 rax expand and always use that until your macro is good. A good series of videos to watch would be FilterSC's videos on youtube. Work on macro to get 50 SCVs by 10 minutes.
2. Don't worry about variations in playstyles and transitions until you are able to hit 50 SCVs by 10 (in game) minutes.
3. If you are toast when the opponent attacks with his first wave that means your macro is lacking. Your economy is behind and you aren't producing enough units.
4. Defense doesn't do shit if you don't have an army. MACRO MACRO MACRO!
Lastly, if you die to some sort of unexpected cheese, don't rage. Just look over the replay and see what you did wrong and what you could have done/scouted to prevent that.
1. Ive tried the 2 rax expand, but my micro in battles still lacks skill to defend that early pressure. I'll test the 1 rax expansion, with 50 SCV's in 10 minutes. Maybe this strategy suits me better. 2. I wont forget the rule when an opponent with gas in the beginning needs bunkers to defend.
practise makes perfect
UPDATE I won my first game with 1rax FE
Ofc. my opponent wasnt that good either, /care I watched my replay for once and it helped alot. In next matches in the first 6 minutes i need to :
1. spend resources (rax and CC); 2. Idle workers need to do something; 3. scan opponents base for a banshee build around 5/6 minutes (as in bronze league, i see alot of all in air, banshees or medivac); Thx peeps
Edit: I will make my post more concised, what is the first build to-go when i want to learn Terran?(whichever match up) I used to be low/mid master zerg. OP provides few openers/builds to choose, but what would be the build to go and bust my head up first until i get it right?
On November 24 2012 02:37 bgx wrote: Edit: I will make my post more concised, what is the first build to-go when i want to learn Terran?(whichever match up) I used to be low/mid master zerg. OP provides few openers/builds to choose, but what would be the build to go and bust my head up first until i get it right?
Are there any pressure but can transition out well build for TvP?. I am so boring in 1 Rax FE/+1/ 2 Medivacs 10 min timing attack and every protoss seems to predict and prepare for that very well, or are there any solid build rather than this timing. I want to be a solid/macro player so I avoid all in-ing.
On November 24 2012 11:54 skyafterrain wrote: Hi everyone
Are there any pressure but can transition out well build for TvP?. I am so boring in 1 Rax FE/+1/ 2 Medivacs 10 min timing attack and every protoss seems to predict and prepare for that very well, or are there any solid build rather than this timing. I want to be a solid/macro player so I avoid all in-ing.
Thanks guys.
2 rax pressure 1 rax FE is standard against protoss
On November 24 2012 11:54 skyafterrain wrote: Hi everyone
Are there any pressure but can transition out well build for TvP?. I am so boring in 1 Rax FE/+1/ 2 Medivacs 10 min timing attack and every protoss seems to predict and prepare for that very well, or are there any solid build rather than this timing. I want to be a solid/macro player so I avoid all in-ing.
Thanks guys.
Marauder expand or 2 rax reactor first work well on most maps and don't put you too far behind if you don't do significant damage, reactor hellion (with or without drops) transitions well too but relies more on doing damage. You can also do 1 rax fe into cloak banshee which leaves you vulnerable to gate timings but is a really fun style.
How can I prevent the protoss from using warp prism and sentry from force-fielding my ramp and then killing my main while my whole army in the natural? I am talking about protoss going for an all-in (usually immortal-sentry), which prompts me to build a bunch of bunkers in the natural and concentrate all of my marines there.
Should I try to build one of the bunkers near the ramp on the high ground?
If he does succeed in blocking ramp and warping in units, do I automatically lose or is there anything I can do?
For reference, I am currently going for cc first then 4 rax marines if I expect an all-in.
Hihi, I decided to switch from toss (master) to terran (struggling in low diamond!) this last week, T is just too much fun! I need some help with my openings, I wasn't able to find solid info.
TvT: I'm doing 1 Rax Expo into 1-1-1. I insta put a tech lab on the factory and start vikings once the starport is done. However, I just don't have enough units to stop 1 base tank pushes and honestly would like and easier time against marine/hellion elevator. When are you supposed get the addons? Maybe getting hellions before the tech lab could help. I have heard some talk about 1 rax cc rax being pretty standard, but more solid opening. Any tip on this? A BO or replay maybe?
TvZ I'm doing 1 rax cc --> hellion banshee + cc 2bays. Is this really the standard? I feel it's a little too greedy and I have way too few units to defend the third. Lately everyone is doing 14 cc into 2rax, maybe I should try that?
Also, how do you defend early pools while 1 rax cc'ing ? Walling in seems obvious, but while doing 17cc on the lowground I just can't hold . I feel that you need to know it's coming, which takes me to the next question.
Usual scout timings on 4player and 2 player maps? I'm doing 14-scout on TvP, same for TvT.
This should help you with your problems, since there are all videos about defending 1 base attacks.
As for TvZ: Yes hellion banshee is standard. You can hold off any early pressure with some micro. In case of allins, you´ll loose some scvs but it´s important that your units stay alive as long as possible. Your 3rd CC should help you recover from losses. To take your 3rd you need to wall of it as soon as possible with depots. You´ll usually have 1 tank a few bio units and 1 or 2 medivacs. Here is a game from me against a friend of mine who likes to do mass ling attacks on the 3rd and i defend it off easily.
Okay folks, I have a replay. I lose any time zerg makes roaches, at any point in the game. THis is a FFA where the other two immediately leave but it typified SO many games that I have asked for help with in this thread
I know I played bad, I was up until 2am playing team games and the damn kids got me up at 6:30 so this was sloppy, and I get so tilted by early roaches that I don't commit to doing anything and have horrible macro.
CC first on Antiga, he scouts me first, I scout gas at 3:45 and no third a little while later so I suspect a bust or mutas. Before I can do anything about it, a handful of roaches show up at my natural so I cancel my starport to get a good surround on my bunker and not die. He then just camps out of range of the bunker so I can't land at my natural for a looong time.
Even though he could have transitioned into a ling style at that point, I blindly go almost pure marauder with some tank and medivac support because I struggle so much against roaches.
I should not have suicided my hellions, I should have just been patient and waited for a medivac and camped at likely fourth bases. I should not have floated a billion gas, I usually mech and the marauder transition didn't go smoothly. I also shouldn't have hotkeyed my third CC when floating it away to ninja expo because I called it back to my base more than once changing rally points. (Again, I can't tell you how much roaches fluster me.)
He attacks with a bunch of roaches with infested terran support up the ramp into my depot wall backed by tanks, marauders, and medivacs and just rapes me. (!) I definitely lost this due to macro, but I will continue to lose to it until I am confident in what to do.
If I commit to a banshee to scout, I could just lose to secondary, later bust, if I commit to marauder, he could go ling muta or ling infestor since he has only committed 150 to the roach warren and am in the dark until he starts making units. When I go mech like normal the roaches deny my third base until I have 6 tanks and 2 thors with which to secure it, by that time the game is over. So I start to do all of them at once and float eleventy billion resources not deciding what to do and lose even harder.
Please help. The guy said he doesn't know how to help me because he doesn't lose to Terran...
PS, (@Sianos) Mr. Llama should have lost to the ling bane bust (that was late) and the roach rush. I did not find those helpful.
@7:30 he has 2 hellions and 3 marines vs 8 roaches. He could focus fire the depot wall and its GG.
@7:20 (when I usually get bane busted) he had 3 barracks (floating in the air,) 6 marines and a naked bunker not protected by anything. If he had been going the standard hellion banshee, like in the roach video, he definitely would have died. It normally hits at 7:20 because that is before you can possibly have siege mode if you go for a fast tank after FE.
EPT
