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On October 22 2012 21:02 DwindleFlip wrote:
killing a ton of drones does not hurt zerg anymore. It still ends up in late game, brood, infestor, corruptor. what the hell do you to stop this?
I had a 200 max army, most of it vikings with upgrades, and all of it gets fungaled. I build the correct counter right? So why did it just die all to fungal so easily? I did split, g ranted only in 2, and one group got hit... the other did not.. they all got destroyed. I dont think i made a dent in his corruptor count.
Terran has no answer for this composition.
Nope, vikings by themselves will NEVER win an air battle vs zerg that has infestors and corruptors in comparable numbers (if its even you are 100% dead). You need ravens, period.
You need to make sure that
A. You don't lose to the first brood push. If it has to go to late game, let it. Unless your whole game plan revolves around hitting a pre-hive timing. Sending your army to attack right before broods is a huge risk because the second you get there IF there's broods you'll get annihilated if you attempt a retreat, specially if playing bio.
B. You have the energy upgrade for ravens ready BEFORE you start pumping ravens. It takes along time to research 110s iirc so at some point depending on how the game is going get 1 extra starport and research it, you don't want to find yourself in a situation where you need to wait for the upgrade, then wait for ravens to get 50 energy before you can seeker.
C. Flank with some ravens. The zerg is gonna be mainly focusing on controlling his infestors (the more spread you are the more space he needs to spread his attention). Add a flank and there's a really good chance that you will either damage the corruptors enough for your vikings to win easily OR blow up his infestors.
If you started raven production and he's going ultras don't panic, use your raven energy for turrets (zerg will be aggressive with ultras). Create a huge chokes of turrets where he attacks. This makes a huge difference when lings clump up for tanks to splash, ultras get stuck, banelings that are not manually set to target buildings will get funneled for more splash etc.
This advice is from a diamond player with an average game length of 30-35 minutes vs zerg, it has worked great for me so far. If you don't think its possible to get ravens vs better zergs I'll grant you that but at any level trying to fight vikings vs corruptor infestor is not gonna work, the math and production is not in your favor.
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I had 1 tank by then. probably 20 marines and all vikings. he made a ton of corruptor broods and probably 10 infestors. I was maxed out. Either fungal should not hit air, or corruptors should not shoot air. Terran doesnt seem to have a way of stopping this composition because nothing on the ground can get close due to broods, and fungal... and nothing in the air can get close due to fungal and corruptors. Zerg on the other hand can plow through you because terran is essentially incapable of beating that mix of units.
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On October 22 2012 19:54 brofestor wrote:
difficult to defend with 1raxfe...more scouting (knowing when the push is coming) plus anticipating the direction of the drop (which can be map dependent) shld be key here
remb you have the earlier cc which is your econ advantage...if you can defend with minimal losses you will be ahead.
thx and what should be the optimal response with 1 Rax FE into Reactor Hellion in your opinion?
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On October 22 2012 21:25 DwindleFlip wrote:
I had 1 tank by then. probably 20 marines and all vikings. he made a ton of corruptor broods and probably 10 infestors. I was maxed out. Either fungal should not hit air, or corruptors should not shoot air. Terran doesnt seem to have a way of stopping this composition because nothing on the ground can get close due to broods, and fungal... and nothing in the air can get close due to fungal and corruptors. Zerg on the other hand can plow through you because terran is essentially incapable of beating that mix of units.
Corruptors can't hit air if you have ravens!
Also regarding your earlier point about killing drones not slowing down zerg too much, that's true. Kill the hatcheries instead 
Oh and while Ravens are great don't try and tech to them too fast, any early brood lord play should be countered with vikings. Try and keep him busy with harass so he can't just attack you.
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Sooo... after playing pure Bio for more than half a year now i wanna get back to tanks but lack the knowledge of a solid wellrounded build which is save against any early agression and getting you to a good timing.
In more Detail if possible i want:
- as agressive as possible
- if possible please no banshees
- is there some bio opening into standard marine tank?
- as easy to execute as possible as i may take some time to get used to those tankfights against^^
Thanks alot! The details are optional so don't hesitate to guide me to some builds that vary!
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How do you stop 3 hatch muta? http://drop.sc/267043 I consistently lose to play like this. I should've either made more hellions and probably bunkered up the choke between the main and nat, but I don't think it would be that sound given how many lings he can pump in.
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On October 23 2012 09:17 Enemyy wrote:Sooo... after playing pure Bio for more than half a year now i wanna get back to tanks but lack the knowledge of a solid wellrounded build which is save against any early agression and getting you to a good timing. In more Detail if possible i want: - as agressive as possible - if possible please no banshees - is there some bio opening into standard marine tank? - as easy to execute as possible as i may take some time to get used to those tankfights against^^ Thanks alot! The details are optional so don't hesitate to guide me to some builds that vary!
Which matchup? There's different builds for each.
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Hello everyone, I have a question regarding opening biomech in TvZ. I've been meching for about a month exclusively, but I want to differ my play to include biomech to.
What do you guy's find the best ways open biomech? I've been looking at different pros such as Taeja, but his build seem really risky with opening 1-rax Double expand -> biomech. I've been mostly doing MvP's mech opener seen at IEM which opens hellion/banshee, and I know there is biomech versions of this, but how do they work? I've been trying some weird variations such as adding 4 rax's with reactors or 4 rax with tech's after the hellion/banshee but they seem kind of awkward. Also do you guys think its better to not open hellion banshee. I've seen several people such as Gumiho, Hack and Alive open just straight rax after reactor hellion.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide in this search :D
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On October 23 2012 14:29 Tausken wrote:
Hello everyone, I have a question regarding opening biomech in TvZ. I've been meching for about a month exclusively, but I want to differ my play to include biomech to.
What do you guy's find the best ways open biomech? I've been looking at different pros such as Taeja, but his build seem really risky with opening 1-rax Double expand -> biomech. I've been mostly doing MvP's mech opener seen at IEM which opens hellion/banshee, and I know there is biomech versions of this, but how do they work? I've been trying some weird variations such as adding 4 rax's with reactors or 4 rax with tech's after the hellion/banshee but they seem kind of awkward. Also do you guys think its better to not open hellion banshee. I've seen several people such as Gumiho, Hack and Alive open just straight rax after reactor hellion.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide in this search :D
Hi,
the only biomech build I've tried is a CC first- >2rax into biomech.
However the opening itself doesn't matter, what matters is knowing what you're going for in terms of production.
If I recall correctly it was something like 1 factory +3 rax with no addons. After some hellions and blueflame add 2x factory, 2x armory, engibay and addons on raxes. Due to the high gas cost of this build you only upgrade infantry attack, while double upgrading mech upgrades. In order to afford this you will have to get 3rd base gasses pretty early or your 2-2-2 will be delayed. So you need to identify what your opponent is going for and get thors/tanks out to secure your third.
Usually its double thor into tank production.
Because the timing of this is tricky, I recommend finding a korean replay of someone playing this style (MKP has a bunch of games) and copying his build one to one.
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A question about mechanics: how efficient do u use the spacebar key? For me, its so confusing i dont always have the camera jumped into the locations i want.
I wonder how the pros use spacebar?
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Still new to Terran, almost diamond now.
A question for worker transferring, I don't see any pro transferring scvs after 1 rax fe and don't put the rally point from main to natural.
How do they keep both base relatively saturated?
I don't really watch pro Terran stream, so much help would be appreciated
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On October 23 2012 19:02 DrDeep wrote:
A question about mechanics: how efficient do u use the spacebar key? For me, its so confusing i dont always have the camera jumped into the locations i want.
I wonder how the pros use spacebar?
They don't, actual decent players use camera hotkeys constantly.
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On October 23 2012 19:54 GoldforGolden wrote:
Still new to Terran, almost diamond now.
A question for worker transferring, I don't see any pro transferring scvs after 1 rax fe and don't put the rally point from main to natural.
How do they keep both base relatively saturated?
I don't really watch pro Terran stream, so much help would be appreciated
I'm not a pro but what I do is usually with 1 of 2 things
1) I don't transfer any SCVs usually (or very few) and I just have my CC's when making SCVs move them to the new mineral patches
2) If I think that aggression is coming soon, like in TvP if I think it might be a 4 gate or a 1 gate -> 5 gate aggression, I transfer probably 5-6 workers and have them on hotkeys just in case I need to pull them in a hurry for them to repair
this is for only when you have 2 base though.
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On October 23 2012 09:55 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:17 Enemyy wrote:Sooo... after playing pure Bio for more than half a year now i wanna get back to tanks but lack the knowledge of a solid wellrounded build which is save against any early agression and getting you to a good timing. In more Detail if possible i want: - as agressive as possible - if possible please no banshees - is there some bio opening into standard marine tank? - as easy to execute as possible as i may take some time to get used to those tankfights against^^ Thanks alot! The details are optional so don't hesitate to guide me to some builds that vary! Which matchup? There's different builds for each.
Oh wow, can't think about forgetting this :D - TvZ.
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TvP
I've been doing a Kas style opening recently. CC before 2nd depot into 4rax, gas at around 34 and then get a third CC while working off four barracks and head up into starport. This works really well, I can be agressive, hold almost anything without scouting besides blink stalker and dt which I just need either a engineering bay or an earlier tech lab to hold. However this build is like the only thing I can properly work with. Any tips for another one? I know Thorzain does a CC into two rax with one reactor and techlab, does anyone have any opinions on this build if you know which one I'm talking about?
TvT
Is it just me that thinks 1 rax expand is the way to go? I've been trying to go a safe banshee build and using my rax to get a reactor and to pump marines early as I get my CC just after my factory. However I often feel that if a 1rax properly respond he'll always come out ahead. I just feel TvT openers are stale, any tips?
TvZ
I always go 1 rax FE into either bio or some sort of banshee play. The early game I got pretty figured out, the mid game is abit yucky because if you push with bio and lose them you won't be able to expand for a while since your unit count is so low. But it doesn't matter how fast I expand, how much pressure I do as they often will get away with their three base saturation relatively fast and either deny my third or rush hive tech with a huge advantage. Any tips? Should I try to be even more greedier, pressure but not commit etc?
No replays in particular here just general advice wanted, I'm top 25 masters. Thanks!
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Guys I have been opening 1 rax fe into;
TvP - adding on 2 more rax, combat shield with reactored medivacs. It has been working well but recently I have been getting all-in'd a lot by 1 base immortal + sentry + stalkers. It comes when I dont have medivacs, if I know its coming what can I do to stop it?
TvZ - either helion banshee or double factory + early blue flame mvp build into mech play. This is the best I have been against zerg. Though mutas sometimes suprise me and I have no turrets or thors out. What time should I be scanning or expecting them to be out?
TvT - same as TvP opening but end up getting vikings and tanks. Works well. What is the best time tp scout for banshee opening? 6:45?
Thanks. Finally in top gold league.
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On October 23 2012 21:23 Enemyy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 09:55 Whatson wrote:On October 23 2012 09:17 Enemyy wrote:Sooo... after playing pure Bio for more than half a year now i wanna get back to tanks but lack the knowledge of a solid wellrounded build which is save against any early agression and getting you to a good timing. In more Detail if possible i want: - as agressive as possible - if possible please no banshees - is there some bio opening into standard marine tank? - as easy to execute as possible as i may take some time to get used to those tankfights against^^ Thanks alot! The details are optional so don't hesitate to guide me to some builds that vary! Which matchup? There's different builds for each. Oh wow, can't think about forgetting this :D - TvZ.
Im only gold league but if you don't want banshee play then I say go for the early blue flame MVP build. But the best would be transmitioning straight into mech.
What you do is, 1 rax fe, 2 gas after first cc, first 100 gas on factory, next 50 gas on reactor on rax when you switch. second 100 gas on next factory, after you take the rax off the reactor get it to make a tech lab and switch with the second factory. Get a starport. Start blue flame and get a viking to pick off overlords. After about 12 hellions poke up into his natural or main and kill as many drones as you can. Army should consist of hellions, tanks, thors and vikings.
Edit: build order is on one of the previous pages.
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On October 24 2012 01:27 mokumoku wrote:
Guys I have been opening 1 rax fe into;
TvP - adding on 2 more rax, combat shield with reactored medivacs. It has been working well but recently I have been getting all-in'd a lot by 1 base immortal + sentry + stalkers. It comes when I dont have medivacs, if I know its coming what can I do to stop it?
TvZ - either helion banshee or double factory + early blue flame mvp build into mech play. This is the best I have been against zerg. Though mutas sometimes suprise me and I have no turrets or thors out. What time should I be scanning or expecting them to be out?
TvT - same as TvP opening but end up getting vikings and tanks. Works well. What is the best time tp scout for banshee opening? 6:45?
Thanks. Finally in top gold league.
TvP: Evacuating into your main and holding off until medivacs are out is the safest option. The high ground advantage and the choke makes it really difficult for him to push up and to throw down forcefields and it makes it easier for you to target the sentry using guardian shield and the immortals. Alternative you have to build a lot of bunkers at least 6, so that you always have bunkers to fall back.
TvZ: It depends on how fast he is taking his 3rd base. If he hasn´t taken a fast 3rd between 6:00 and 6:30 you can scan around 9 to look for a spire or lair tech.For the scan timing at 9 you need to already have an ebay or at least thor production ready, since you don´t have much time to set up your defense. If you don´t plan to build your anti air that early normaly, you have to scan sooner. If you are afraid of allins you can scan around 7 minutes. When the lair is morphing than there will most likely be no allins. If he takes a 3rd base the lair timing get´s delayed by roughly 2 minutes.
But keep in mind that he can always hide his lair/spire and he can even do powerful push timings with a fast 3rd. The best scout you can have is to see the units from him. That´s why the opening is based on hellions and banshees. You can spot their units in the front early and safely pull back while setting up defenses.
TvT: I always scan with the first 50 energy of my natrual cc. And i only scan the gases in his main. If he hasn´t expanded and has to gas by that time its almost always banshees. Other alternatives for him are either siege tanks or proxy thor, but that´s easy to scout with a few marines on the map.
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On October 23 2012 21:48 Olsson wrote:TvPI've been doing a Kas style opening recently. CC before 2nd depot into 4rax, gas at around 34 and then get a third CC while working off four barracks and head up into starport. This works really well, I can be agressive, hold almost anything without scouting besides blink stalker and dt which I just need either a engineering bay or an earlier tech lab to hold. However this build is like the only thing I can properly work with. Any tips for another one? I know Thorzain does a CC into two rax with one reactor and techlab, does anyone have any opinions on this build if you know which one I'm talking about? TvTIs it just me that thinks 1 rax expand is the way to go? I've been trying to go a safe banshee build and using my rax to get a reactor and to pump marines early as I get my CC just after my factory. However I often feel that if a 1rax properly respond he'll always come out ahead. I just feel TvT openers are stale, any tips? TvZI always go 1 rax FE into either bio or some sort of banshee play. The early game I got pretty figured out, the mid game is abit yucky because if you push with bio and lose them you won't be able to expand for a while since your unit count is so low. But it doesn't matter how fast I expand, how much pressure I do as they often will get away with their three base saturation relatively fast and either deny my third or rush hive tech with a huge advantage. Any tips? Should I try to be even more greedier, pressure but not commit etc? No replays in particular here just general advice wanted, I'm top 25 masters. Thanks!
my thoughts on that
TvP
I would recommend 1 rax or CC first but be careful with CC first there are some timings which are hard to hold. I really like the opening of beastyqt against protoss it's like (not exactly) no gas fe into 2 Rax into Cloak Banshee and some tanks to backup against all 2 base timings with relatively fast upgrades.
TvT
Yeah i agree. 1 rax CC is the way to go in this match up. In my opinion you can hold the most timings with proper scouting. (cloak banshee, 3 rax timing, 2 rax timing etc). The only timing which gives me problems is the marine+hellion drop at around 6:45
TvZ
I always go CC first and this transitions nice into mech or bio. Even with mass zerglings and nice bunker placement you should be fine and i nearly win all matches against 6 pool because he is so far ahead if you respond correctly. Against all other timings you have the additional economy where you have more units in most cases and you can loose more scv without beeing behind.
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EPT
