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On October 19 2012 20:22 malaan wrote:
Start building a bunker in your mineral line. Start building 2 if you spotted it late. Rally your baracks away so the marines can run around until the bunker is complete.
It's that easy. If you scout the gateway warping in at below 40% complete, pull 5-6 scvs and attack the gateway. Ignore the pylons. SCVS should kill the gateway before a zealot pops out even if he chronoboosts.
Did you even watch the replay? He warped in right next to my command center. I did pull scv's to kill the gateways, but he just kept canceling and remaking them, 2-4 at a time until 2 of them eventually got up.
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On October 19 2012 19:18 Tactical wrote:What's the proper way to hold against a proxy 2 gate? I feel like even if I had used less scv's to try to delay his pylons/gates I still would have lost even if I got my barracks up quicker. Diamond Terran vs. Masters Toss, I'd like to not lose to this again. O_o Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/266043
If you pull that many SCVs, you had better kill the probe, because you screwed up your own mining time so badly that you couldn't afford anything. Instead of doing that, just send one SCV to attack the probe, and use 4-6 SCVs to attack the pylons. Pylons are way easier to kill that gateways, so your goal should be to keep making him cancel and rebuild pylons to spend his money. So what you should do is immediately stop worker production when you see this, build your Rax in a sim-city by your CC, and then do the SCV pull to delay his Zealots via the probe chase/attacking pylons. Without your barracks, you lose. Get a barracks, get a bunker, build marines, put them in the bunker, and beat this terrible strategy.
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I think ineversmile has stated already that you are over reacting to his proxy but I disagree about attacking the pylon. I would like to point out that if you wait for him to build his gateway and then pull 5 Scvs to attack then it will kill the gateway before the zealot is done, you don't have to touch the pylon as it is not a threat and is not a good target because he can keep replacing them easily.
Leave the other scvs to mine and build a barracks as soon as you can and you will be able to defend this easily. If he decides to build 2 gateways then kill the first one then work on the 2nd one with a few more Scvs and by that time your marine should probably be out as well.
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What's the proper way to hold against a proxy 2 gate? I feel like even if I had used less scv's to try to delay his pylons/gates I still would have lost even if I got my barracks up quicker. Diamond Terran vs. Masters Toss, I'd like to not lose to this again. O_o Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/266043
1.) Build a wallin
Why? When you have a wallin you can simple finish your wall and evacuate to your natrual, when his 2 gateways are ready. Build a bunker on the low ground and laugh about the zealots attacking your wall. A wallin also helps against chronoboosted gateway pressure or 4 gate runbys. It just make your live easier and unless you are a grandmaster play where every minerals count, the lost mining time isn´t a big deal at all.
2.)
In your situation i wouldn´t have attacked his pylon/gateway at all, since you need your income to close your mineral zone. I would have started the barracks ASAP on your right side to close the gap between you main cc and the gases. Then i would have build another supply depot at one of the entrances below. As soon as your rax finishes you have to start your bunker. If possible you could have build it at your 1st depot to close the gap there. If he´s blocking it build it at one of your other entrances. The goal against a proxy gate is to build a wall all around your mineral line. For this you need to mine constantly with your scvs.
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To anybody watching MvP VS Life in GSL code S season 4 final, particaularly in the first game (not so sure) but in game 3 (antiga shipyard , I am sure), MVP went 2 factory Blue Flame Hellion as opener.
Anybody know the BO for this?
Thanks
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Hey,
Watching the GSL here, just saw Mvp do 2 times the same 2 factory hellion with blue flame, does anyone have a replay or the BO for this?
It looked really strong if you can deny scouting.
Thanks!
Edit: haha someone above me liked the BO as well, this is what i've got out of the 3 games:
·10 – Supply Depot
·12 - Barracks
·16 – Marine (only 1)
·17 – Orbital Command
·17 – @ 400 minerals, start 2nd Command Center
·19 – 2 Refineries
·17 – Supply Depot (Resume SCV and Marine production)
·@100 Gas, start Factory and Bunker
·@50 Gas and 100% 3rd/4th Marine, start Reactor on Barracks
·@100 Gas, Start 2nd Factory
·100% Factory, Swap off and Start Techlab on rax
·100% 2nd Factory , Swap off and Start BF
·100 Gas, start Starport
·100% Starport, start Viking and pick off scouting overlords
*Attack once BF is done, ~12 Hellions*
Is it correct? Cheers!
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^Pretty much sums it up, he only shows 4 hellions until blue flame is done, and then pushes with 11 hellions. Also, he gets his engineering bay at 9 minutes, and his armory right after the engineering bay is done, with 1 thor right when it's completed. By the time typical mutas would hit his base, he would have 1 thor, maybe ~3 vikings, and a turret or two at each base. Also, not positive, but i don't think he cuts scv production, he cuts his marines until the second depot is finished and then goes up to 4.
In the game on abyssal city i think it's called?
I think did the command center first variant, which is:
10 - Depot
15 - Command Center
16 - Barracks
19 - Double Refinery
20 - Double Orbital
22 Depot
@100 Gas, start Factory and Bunker
·@50 Gas and 100% 4th Marine, (3 in bunker one in his main denying overlord scout) start Reactor on Barracks
·@100 Gas, Start 2nd Factory
·100% Factory, Swap onto reactor, Start tech lab on rax
·100% 2nd Factory , Swap off and Start BF
·100 Gas, start Starport
·100% Starport, start Viking and pick off scouting overlords.
That's what I think I saw at least not sure, pretty tired.
GL
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Yea guys I think you are pretty accurate.
Only thing is I play bio more so I have to consider that, but your BO seems decent.
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I think that build order can hold up the roach ling/baneling all in pretty well aswell, just get siege tanks from factory and cancel blue flame research and get siege mode instead, even unsieged tanks are godlike against roaches and soon as siege mode finishes you are safe from any extra waves of the all in.
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How do you deal with 11 gate 3 (chronoed zelots)+ canon rush when you do 1 rax fe and build cc on the low ground. I will have 1 marine and bunker just starting when a zelot and 3 probes are at my door. Should i just cancel cc and build 3 racks and try to get bunker + marauder asap or should i pull scvs to try and kill all his stuff?
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On October 20 2012 19:12 TDH wrote:
How do you deal with 11 gate 3 (chronoed zelots)+ canon rush when you do 1 rax fe and build cc on the low ground. I will have 1 marine and bunker just starting when a zelot and 3 probes are at my door. Should i just cancel cc and build 3 racks and try to get bunker + marauder asap or should i pull scvs to try and kill all his stuff?
Assuming the gateway isn't proxied, definitely pull scvs and defend. You don't want to be cannonned into your main, it's going to be a while before you get out.
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On October 20 2012 01:52 Sianos wrote:Show nested quote +What's the proper way to hold against a proxy 2 gate? I feel like even if I had used less scv's to try to delay his pylons/gates I still would have lost even if I got my barracks up quicker. Diamond Terran vs. Masters Toss, I'd like to not lose to this again. O_o Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/266043 1.) Build a wallin Why? When you have a wallin you can simple finish your wall and evacuate to your natrual, when his 2 gateways are ready. Build a bunker on the low ground and laugh about the zealots attacking your wall. A wallin also helps against chronoboosted gateway pressure or 4 gate runbys. It just make your live easier and unless you are a grandmaster play where every minerals count, the lost mining time isn´t a big deal at all. 2.) In your situation i wouldn´t have attacked his pylon/gateway at all, since you need your income to close your mineral zone. I would have started the barracks ASAP on your right side to close the gap between you main cc and the gases. Then i would have build another supply depot at one of the entrances below. As soon as your rax finishes you have to start your bunker. If possible you could have build it at your 1st depot to close the gap there. If he´s blocking it build it at one of your other entrances. The goal against a proxy gate is to build a wall all around your mineral line. For this you need to mine constantly with your scvs.
This right here.
I cant tell you the number of games where ive noticed the gateways while building my rax, then just moved to my natural. The best part is they dont want to be scouted so wont be in vision of the CC so wont even know youve left. THen youve auto won.
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Does anyone know some good TvT Mech Openers?
Thanks in advance!
LukasG
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On October 21 2012 01:45 LukasG wrote:
Does anyone know some good TvT Mech Openers?
Thanks in advance!
LukasG
Proxy marauder into mech is what I face a lot. Or 1 rax FE reactor hellion -> cloak banshee -> 3 fac double armory tanks for defense as you take third
On October 19 2012 19:18 Tactical wrote: What's the proper way to hold against a proxy 2 gate? I feel like even if I had used less scv's to try to delay his pylons/gates I still would have lost even if I got my barracks up quicker. Diamond Terran vs. Masters Toss, I'd like to not lose to this again. O_o Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/266043
Here's an example of defending a 2 gate proxy.
http://drop.sc/266333 SCV pull to target the gateways, scv on the probe to stop him from putting down more gateways. 6 scvs > 1 gateway if you get them on it fast enough. they kill it before the chrono'd zeal comes out.
Get bunkers to protect mineral lines, and pull back once zeals are out.
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Can someone explain to me how to do an 11/11 2rax vs Zerg?like how many scvs to pull, when and where to build bunkers, do I make an oc? when do I get my supply depot? I know this is like one of the most common build ever but whenever I try doing it I fail miserably.
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I always seem to get stuck in certain periods of the game, just producing stuff, and then proceed to get rolled by higher tier units.
I play terran. When is a good time to tech up, expand, or produce a lot of units? It is something I'm struggling with quite a lot... Also how do I judge wether to add on production buildings or expand? Is there any sort of general thing I can look at when I have to make these decisions?
I mean, the obvious reasoning would be to expand when you don't think there will be any aggression during the expansion time. The hard thing is knowing when to tech up and when to just add rax and keep making more marines... Some general guidelines would be cool :D
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On October 21 2012 04:55 IonRealm wrote:
I always seem to get stuck in certain periods of the game, just producing stuff, and then proceed to get rolled by higher tier units.
I play terran. When is a good time to tech up, expand, or produce a lot of units? It is something I'm struggling with quite a lot... Also how do I judge wether to add on production buildings or expand? Is there any sort of general thing I can look at when I have to make these decisions?
I mean, the obvious reasoning would be to expand when you don't think there will be any aggression during the expansion time. The hard thing is knowing when to tech up and when to just add rax and keep making more marines... Some general guidelines would be cool :D
The thing about terran is that, unless you're playing greedy, or you've scouted an all-in and HAVE to play defensively, you're the one that dictates the tempo of the game. For figuring out expand/tech timings, It really depends on your playstyle and your build order. I think the best way to learn this is just to find a specific build for each matchup, and try to get it down and refine it as best as you can until you can do it with no mistakes, but at the same time, you still have to be diligent with your scouting, and play somewhat reactionary to what your opponent is planning. As far as adding production, that really just comes down to knowing what you can afford on however many bases. There's a few posts explaining it, but the general consensus is:
1 base, 1/1/1, or 3 barracks/factory/starport
2 base, 1 rax, 3 fact, 1 starport, (mech) or 5 barracks, factory, reactored starport (bio/marine tank)
Each additional base is more or less, 2 barracks and a factory or starport, or two factories for mech builds.
As far as knowing when to expand, there's your typical cc first and 1 rax expands, which can hold most pressure with a depot wall and a bunker, if you scout an all-in, you can make additional bunkers, or bunker your ramp and float your natural back to your main. If you didn't fast expand, typical times to take your natural is anywhere from 5-9 minutes, and your third from 9-12 minutes, and a fourth at 15 minutes, and an additional command center every two minutes after that as long as you can afford it. Day 9 used to say, any time you go out for a major attack, expand behind it. Your attack buys you time, while you're forcing your opponent to defend, so you can get your expo up fairly safely. However, there's also times depending on what you scout, it'd be better to delay taking your third slightly. If you scout say, a protoss rushing for a 2/3 colossus 6/gateway all-in (more commonly known as squirtle's push) it'd be better to build your third CC in your main, and just bunker up, and rush as many vikings as you can without cutting your scv/bio production, and then after the engagement, if the the protoss decides not to attack into you, you can counter attack, and safely set up your third base.
As far as upgrades, add your armory and second engineering bay at 60-80% of +1 finishing. Or 60% of 1/1 if you went double e-bay. Your first engineering bay timing depends on your build, but usually it's right after you start your factory. Or double engineering bay right before your factory.
As far as ghost tech, I always had a really really hard time figuring out when to start ghost production. They're more or less a waste of supply in tvz, unless you're already ahead, or can snipe overseers and have good enough micro to use them against infestors. In tvp, I've recently figured out a decent timing, where I add my ghost academy as soon as I start 2/2 bio upgrades, and begin ghost production at around 140-170 supply. However, if you scout fast templar tech, and see a large chargelot/archon force and no robo tech, it's probably a good idea to get them before your 2/2.
With terran, there's just so much you have to know in order to actually improve. Sure everyone says you can get to masters with just good macro, but at the same time, having game-sense, and understanding the game, is really important too. Hope this helped, glhf.
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guys what should i be maxing against a max blink stalker.
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Hi, I don't usually play TvT but I've been forcing myself not to instant quit this few days. I notice that this usually happens in my matchups.
Me -> Go heavy mech/bio with lots of tanks -> Kills their units and most of their army -> SUDDENLY 3-6 BCs show up and kill my mech army. Thors feel useless vs BCs and my vikings die too fast to their BC/vikings too. What is the way you are supposed to play vs Sky Terran? How do you prepare?
How many vikings for 1 BC?
Should I kite my vikings vs the BCs? I've been only amoving the vikings (with them on top of my army) with bad results. But I am too afraid to move them away from my main army (leaving the thors and siege tanks exposed?).
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If you have a better economy and you scout in time, switching to sky terran too may be a good option, but in general, against BC, microed vikings together with an handful of Ravens for PDD are excellent. Really, some vikings will still die against the BC's cannons, cause you can't micro against them, but just get enough of them. PDD are great cause BCs are slow and once they commit to an attack they can't just turn around and flee.
If BCs are still unupgraded, however, and without tank support, 3/3 marines alone will just shred them.
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EPT
