EPTSay maybe open exactly as MVP did, but late game pump out lots of Vikings/Ravens on maybe 1 reactor 2 Tech Lab?
In my head this seems good, thoughts?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 383
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ThatKai
England1 Post
Say maybe open exactly as MVP did, but late game pump out lots of Vikings/Ravens on maybe 1 reactor 2 Tech Lab? In my head this seems good, thoughts? | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Second, after a 1 rax FE what is the general follow up versus zerg? I still go marine/medivac which vs zerg is of course pretty stupid without MarineKing micro. | ||
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Tactical
United States77 Posts
On October 21 2012 18:38 Immutant wrote: Hi, I don't usually play TvT but I've been forcing myself not to instant quit this few days. I notice that this usually happens in my matchups. Me -> Go heavy mech/bio with lots of tanks -> Kills their units and most of their army -> SUDDENLY 3-6 BCs show up and kill my mech army. Thors feel useless vs BCs and my vikings die too fast to their BC/vikings too. What is the way you are supposed to play vs Sky Terran? How do you prepare? How many vikings for 1 BC? Should I kite my vikings vs the BCs? I've been only amoving the vikings (with them on top of my army) with bad results. But I am too afraid to move them away from my main army (leaving the thors and siege tanks exposed?). If you're playing against a pure bio/marine tank player, you should expect a fairly quick sky terran transition around the 19-22 minute mark. Your best bet is just to be diligent in your scouting. Know when he drops his additional starports, and drop a few extra of your own. You should already have air superiority due to your own vikings/upgrades, don't let him take it from you. Grab a raven or two, when you force an engagement, or your opponent commits to one, drop a pdd or two to tank his vikings, and target his bc's with your own. Adding a couple bc's to your army can't really hurt either, but I personally don't add bc's until my air 2/2 or 3/3 is done, as bc's are still pretty fragile against 3/3 marines. Keep a thor, or a couple of them in your army as well to target his vikings so you can keep your air superiority. Vikings out-range, and are faster than bc's, so yes, once the pdd's wear off, you should try to kite them. On October 21 2012 20:39 ThatKai wrote: How helpful would it be for Terran to try to go into triple/quad-triple Starports late game vs Zerg? Say maybe open exactly as MVP did, but late game pump out lots of Vikings/Ravens on maybe 1 reactor 2 Tech Lab? In my head this seems good, thoughts? In theory yes, it's a good idea, but if you're going to commit to sky terran, you need to have several planetary walls to prevent ling runby's/counter attacks. As once you have a massive air army, the zerg can just remax on pure ground right after you handle his brood lords/corrupters, and then you have quite a bit of useless supply. BC's aren't really a good investment, as their dps is pretty low and doesn't scale that well. 1-2 is okay to tank, but I think banshee/raven/viking should be your primary units. Banshees scale really well with ugprades and in higher numbers. Ravens have pdd and HSM which is really good as well if you have the extra energy, and vikings to defend them. Also mass hellion runby's as a mineral dump is good to try too. just be really careful not to let your units get fungaled to death or you're kind of fucked. It gets pretty micro intensive to keep them alive, but if you do it right, it's really powerful and hard to deal with. On October 21 2012 20:50 Targe wrote: Sup terrans, I've been looking round liquipedia but can't really find a build except for hellion/banshee that puts early pressure on zerg, is there one which isn't as mechanically difficult as hellion/banshee? Second, after a 1 rax FE what is the general follow up versus zerg? I still go marine/medivac which vs zerg is of course pretty stupid without MarineKing micro. The most common openers I see on ladder, and on pro streams lately, is that hellion/banshee opener, and a 1 rax fe or cc first, 3cc build into reactor hellion/marine/marauder stim/combat shield/+1 push around 9:30 which is really powerful, and "most" games I get a free hatchery with it. Send me a PM if you want the build order, or a replay. Or theres that build MVP did against Life in the GSL Code S championship series, great games btw, should definitely check them out. He opens 1 rax FE or cc first into reactor hellion, but adds a second factory, and gets blue flame, he harrasses with his first 4, and then pushes when bf completes and he has 11-12 hellions. I've had pretty good success with that on ladder so far and it's pretty safe, cause you can jsut make a seige tank if you have to. The build order is on the page before this one. | ||
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Bwall
Sweden145 Posts
On October 21 2012 20:50 Targe wrote: Sup terrans, I've been looking round liquipedia but can't really find a build except for hellion/banshee that puts early pressure on zerg, is there one which isn't as mechanically difficult as hellion/banshee? Second, after a 1 rax FE what is the general follow up versus zerg? I still go marine/medivac which vs zerg is of course pretty stupid without MarineKing micro. Hellion-banshee is your best bet, other pressure builds require more infrastructure and thereby delay your 3rd cc+upgrades, which means you need to do damage. When you're saying you want something mechanically easier I assume you're in on of the lower leagues, which means you don't have to have godlike mechanics to benefit from hellion-banshee. The best thing about hellion-banshee is how well you can defend your greed with it, and you don't HAVE to do damage, especially not if he stays on 2 bases. Just having banshees on the field will force him to build spores, and he has to be afraid of hellion run-bys. You can just sit your hellions+banshees at the watchtower, and poke a little now and then. Make sure you get a 3rd cc around 8 minutes(+/-1 minute) and double upgrades(e-bays/armories, you can transition into either mech or marine-tank) after the 3rd cc. If he doesn't have a third started at 7-7:30~ scan his main and watch out for a muta rush. If you're still not convinced, check out some 1 rax fe-> reactor hellion -> 3rax timing. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On October 21 2012 21:10 Bwall wrote: Hellion-banshee is your best bet, other pressure builds require more infrastructure and thereby delay your 3rd cc+upgrades, which means you need to do damage. When you're saying you want something mechanically easier I assume you're in on of the lower leagues, which means you don't have to have godlike mechanics to benefit from hellion-banshee. The best thing about hellion-banshee is how well you can defend your greed with it, and you don't HAVE to do damage, especially not if he stays on 2 bases. Just having banshees on the field will force him to build spores, and he has to be afraid of hellion run-bys. You can just sit your hellions+banshees at the watchtower, and poke a little now and then. Make sure you get a 3rd cc around 8 minutes(+/-1 minute) and double upgrades(e-bays/armories, you can transition into either mech or marine-tank) after the 3rd cc. If he doesn't have a third started at 7-7:30~ scan his main and watch out for a muta rush. If you're still not convinced, check out some 1 rax fe-> reactor hellion -> 3rax timing. You got it right about lower leagues, I'm mid plat mechanics level, I am capable of managing both building units and microing, but when it comes to expanding etc. I can't manage both the banshees and placing the CCs. The way you've put hellion banshee makes more sense now, I was struggling to get major amounts of drone kills which I was thinking you had to do to pay for the banshees etc. I'll take a look at it again, 8:00 is quite an early third compared to what I usually take so hopefully I'll now be able to stay on par with the Zerg economy! Thanks for the advice! The most common openers I see on ladder, and on pro streams lately, is that hellion/banshee opener, and a 1 rax fe or cc first, 3cc build into reactor hellion/marine/marauder stim/combat shield/+1 push around 9:30 which is really powerful, and "most" games I get a free hatchery with it. Send me a PM if you want the build order, or a replay. Or theres that build MVP did against Life in the GSL Code S championship series, great games btw, should definitely check them out. He opens 1 rax FE or cc first into reactor hellion, but adds a second factory, and gets blue flame, he harrasses with his first 4, and then pushes when bf completes and he has 11-12 hellions. I've had pretty good success with that on ladder so far and it's pretty safe, cause you can jsut make a seige tank if you have to. The build order is on the page before this one. I need to watch those GSL games, I was reading the LR thread and was refreshing constantly! Mvp's build sounds quite good but I'm unsure about the two facts straight up as I like to have lots of marines with some tank support, not lots of tanks with some marines for support! I PM'ed you about the BO Thanks! | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
what do you think about deny a fast 3rd base of the zerg with a pre bunker+marine. is it worth it? or should i just rally my scv to his 3rd if i scout no gas and maybe throw down a ebay if he try to place the hatchery? the bunker+marine is 100 minerals extra in the early game which delays my factory or scv production. | ||
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Tactical
United States77 Posts
On October 21 2012 22:09 saaaa wrote: i always cc first against zerg nowadays i have a question about it.. what do you think about deny a fast 3rd base of the zerg with a pre bunker+marine. is it worth it? or should i just rally my scv to his 3rd if i scout no gas and maybe throw down a ebay if he try to place the hatchery? the bunker+marine is 100 minerals extra in the early game which delays my factory or scv production. A bunker+marine at the third is a pretty bad investment, unless you're applying pressure with it at the natural. Because they can just take their third at another location. It sets you back the 100 for the bunker (you can salvage but it still delays your other production), and the 50 for the marine, and the mining time of the scv. You'd be better off just scouting with your scv, and patrolling your scv at the third to deny it going down for a few seconds extra before moving it to a tower or back to your base. With 1 marine in the bunker, at most, you gain a few seconds for the drone to move elsewhere, and maybe a 2-3 lings if the zerg tries to kill it. Same thing with ebay, they can just take another base until they have a few lings to kill it. Or they could go for a 2 base all-in since they know you intentionally slightly delayed your stuff after going cc first. | ||
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Effets
27 Posts
i play terran for few weeks and i'm high plat atm but since 2 or 3 months i've so many lag issues when i come to the late game (200 vs 200) in all the matchs-ups, but especially vs toss. That's a fat problem for me cause i really like playing late game style and i'm not used to play cheesy/all-in but i'll have to until theses lag problems are solved. So i come here, i few builds to finish the game in early / mid on all the matchs-ups with links if possible. I checked liquipedia but i'm not really convinced thanks ! User was warned for this post | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On October 21 2012 22:38 Effets wrote: Hihi i play terran for few weeks and i'm high plat atm but since 2 or 3 months i've so many lag issues when i come to the late game (200 vs 200) in all the matchs-ups, but especially vs toss. That's a fat problem for me cause i really like playing late game style and i'm not used to play cheesy/all-in but i'll have to until theses lag problems are solved. So i come here, i few builds to finish the game in early / mid on all the matchs-ups with links if possible. I checked liquipedia but i'm not really convinced thanks ! Read the OP. + Show Spoiler + What are the best allins versus each race? - Hide Spoiler - TvP: 1) Proxy factory starport with 3 hellion drop into marine/tank/banshee (Taeja/Finale, TSL Ro8 KR qualifier,Antiga. 2)gas rax hellion/marauder + scvs (MarineKing vs Killer, MLG Raleigh, Antiga) TvT: This heavily depends on how they open, but allins will either open rax gas or gas rax will try to do damage with either banshee or marine/hellion elevator, and usually transition into marine/tank/banshee off 1 base. 1) rax gas cloak banshee into marine/tank/banshee. MVP vs Polt, GSTL, Dual Sight. 2) Gas rax fact reactor port hellion elevator into banshee (all buildings proxied near main). Alive vs Binski, MLG Raleigh, Daybreak. TvZ: 11/11, either proxy or forward. Pull 5-7 scvs (3 for a more economic variation). Keen vs Life, TSL Semis, Ohana. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
I really like the Marauder/hellion timings from Polt and was wondering if someone has the BO for them. There are I think 2 different ones. One with Marauder/Hellion/Marin +1 CS stim and with a 3rd a little bit later (I think 9-9:30) And one where he goes pumps 3 Marauders at a time with hellions. For reference in Nasl versus DRG he has done the timings and in the Ironsquid open qualifier versus Livezerg but generally he does it often. If someone has the BOs and could post them here or PM me It would be much aprecciated. Thank you for reading GumBa | ||
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Immutant
Singapore201 Posts
On October 21 2012 19:58 Malhavoc wrote: If you have a better economy and you scout in time, switching to sky terran too may be a good option, but in general, against BC, microed vikings together with an handful of Ravens for PDD are excellent. Really, some vikings will still die against the BC's cannons, cause you can't micro against them, but just get enough of them. PDD are great cause BCs are slow and once they commit to an attack they can't just turn around and flee. If BCs are still unupgraded, however, and without tank support, 3/3 marines alone will just shred them. On October 21 2012 21:05 Tactical wrote: If you're playing against a pure bio/marine tank player, you should expect a fairly quick sky terran transition around the 19-22 minute mark. Your best bet is just to be diligent in your scouting. Know when he drops his additional starports, and drop a few extra of your own. You should already have air superiority due to your own vikings/upgrades, don't let him take it from you. Grab a raven or two, when you force an engagement, or your opponent commits to one, drop a pdd or two to tank his vikings, and target his bc's with your own. Adding a couple bc's to your army can't really hurt either, but I personally don't add bc's until my air 2/2 or 3/3 is done, as bc's are still pretty fragile against 3/3 marines. Keep a thor, or a couple of them in your army as well to target his vikings so you can keep your air superiority. Vikings out-range, and are faster than bc's, so yes, once the pdd's wear off, you should try to kite them. Thanks for the response guys. My problem is that I am usually short of gas, with lots of minerals (that may be due to me not getting gas at my 3rd for a long period of time).... In TvP and TvZ, you don't really need much gas, as the bulk of your force is in marines (I go bio) and I find that I can easily get medivacs/upgrades/ghosts even with 4 gas only. | ||
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
I saw supernova do a 3 OC build that had a standard 3 rax reactor star pot with medivacs hitting at around 11 mins. with +1 and stim on the way and finished respectively Does anyone know what the BO is (i didnt get a chance to see it) Cheers | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On October 22 2012 05:21 nereme wrote: Hi guys. I saw supernova do a 3 OC build that had a standard 3 rax reactor star pot with medivacs hitting at around 11 mins. with +1 and stim on the way and finished respectively Does anyone know what the BO is (i didnt get a chance to see it) Cheers Is this TvP? | ||
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nereme
United Kingdom32 Posts
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Effets
27 Posts
On October 21 2012 23:01 Bojas wrote: Read the OP. + Show Spoiler + What are the best allins versus each race? - Hide Spoiler - TvP: 1) Proxy factory starport with 3 hellion drop into marine/tank/banshee (Taeja/Finale, TSL Ro8 KR qualifier,Antiga. 2)gas rax hellion/marauder + scvs (MarineKing vs Killer, MLG Raleigh, Antiga) TvT: This heavily depends on how they open, but allins will either open rax gas or gas rax will try to do damage with either banshee or marine/hellion elevator, and usually transition into marine/tank/banshee off 1 base. 1) rax gas cloak banshee into marine/tank/banshee. MVP vs Polt, GSTL, Dual Sight. 2) Gas rax fact reactor port hellion elevator into banshee (all buildings proxied near main). Alive vs Binski, MLG Raleigh, Daybreak. TvZ: 11/11, either proxy or forward. Pull 5-7 scvs (3 for a more economic variation). Keen vs Life, TSL Semis, Ohana. Yea i saw this thanks... but i'll explain more cause i don't think you understood me well. I juste wanna avoid the late (ultra late) game 200/200, that doesn't mean that i only want to finish the game on 1base in less than 5min... Some timings push / all-in can destroy ennemies when i'm on 2 or 3 bases, that's what i search the most ! | ||
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brofestor
Singapore101 Posts
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
i open up with no gas fe into reactor hellion and then depending on scan/scouting raven or banshee with cloak How can i hold this push properly? I just saw the gsl and hack lost like 20 SCV against it. | ||
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brofestor
Singapore101 Posts
remb you have the earlier cc which is your econ advantage...if you can defend with minimal losses you will be ahead. | ||
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DwindleFlip
United States32 Posts
I had a 200 max army, most of it vikings with upgrades, and all of it gets fungaled. I build the correct counter right? So why did it just die all to fungal so easily? I did split, g ranted only in 2, and one group got hit... the other did not.. they all got destroyed. I dont think i made a dent in his corruptor count. Terran has no answer for this composition. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On October 22 2012 21:02 DwindleFlip wrote: killing a ton of drones does not hurt zerg anymore. It still ends up in late game, brood, infestor, corruptor. what the hell do you to stop this? I had a 200 max army, most of it vikings with upgrades, and all of it gets fungaled. I build the correct counter right? So why did it just die all to fungal so easily? I did split, g ranted only in 2, and one group got hit... the other did not.. they all got destroyed. I dont think i made a dent in his corruptor count. Terran has no answer for this composition. While it is extremely hard, you basically just need to play better. I don't think any of us can comment but in theory, you need to play this very tight chess game of tanks being in range of the infestors, and your vikings trying to get a shot off on broodlords What has worked for me, is not engaging the broodlords until I'm absolutely certain that I can take them and/or infestors/lings/blings are gone from under them. If you keep up with medivacs, you can start dropping all over the map. Broodlords are stupidly slow and you can exploit that by doing multiple doom drops at multiple locations (aka at the main, at the 3rd) and then use a few units to snipe a few other bases. He HAS to defend or else he'll be all-in with the push. And you don't ever base trade with a Terran IMO. | ||
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