EPTOther units such as marines, tanks, etc cannot retreat to cut losses like hellion and banshee can.
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 346
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Other units such as marines, tanks, etc cannot retreat to cut losses like hellion and banshee can. | ||
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
tvt 1- army, 2 - starport, 3 - barracks, 4 - factory, 5- cc's tvp 1 - same, 2 - ghosts, 3 - same, 4 - starports, 5 - cc's tvz 1 -same, 2- banshees, 3- starports, 4- factory, 5- cc's (im using primary mech build) i was just wondering what is your ideal hotkey setup? I am struggling with late tvp when i want to control my army, vikings and ghosts properly and with my setup, i have vikings together with army and their control is sometimes too slow...any suggestions? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
If you can get by with just 3 armies hotkeys, you could shift one over and go with 1,2,3, for army, 4 for CCs,a nd 5,6,7 for production. Something I found useful was to make ~ into a control group so everything is easy to reach. What I used for a long time was ~,1,2 for control groups, 3 for CCs, 4,5,6 for Rax/Fact/Port. I'd typically hotkey my engi bays and armories together with my CCs cause why not | ||
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joeschmo
United States167 Posts
On August 29 2012 03:43 Rasputincz wrote: Hihi top dia protoss who is switching to terrans. I have one problem with terran hotkeys. Here is my usage of hotkeys in each match up. tvt 1- army, 2 - starport, 3 - barracks, 4 - factory, 5- cc's tvp 1 - same, 2 - ghosts, 3 - same, 4 - starports, 5 - cc's tvz 1 -same, 2- banshees, 3- starports, 4- factory, 5- cc's (im using primary mech build) i was just wondering what is your ideal hotkey setup? I am struggling with late tvp when i want to control my army, vikings and ghosts properly and with my setup, i have vikings together with army and their control is sometimes too slow...any suggestions? I find if I put CCs on a control group and all production on another control group I can use 3 or 4 numbers for my army. For example: 1-CC, 2-Production buildings (I tab through, it gets easy) 3-mmm, 4-Ghost, 5-Viking. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On August 29 2012 03:54 joeschmo wrote: I find if I put CCs on a control group and all production on another control group I can use 3 or 4 numbers for my army. For example: 1-CC, 2-Production buildings (I tab through, it gets easy) 3-mmm, 4-Ghost, 5-Viking. This is another good method-- I see lots of people doing this-- but it has a problem. If you like to rally your buildings directly onto units, and you make medivacs, the medivac will come and pick up your rally point unit. Make sure to keep an eye out for this as you play if you use this setup. I highly recommend this for people with smaller hands thoough. | ||
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herMan
Japan2053 Posts
On August 29 2012 03:09 Gyro_SC2 wrote: in TvZ Why a lot of people use hellion and after banshee. ( I think it's one of the most famous mma build) I always have the impression that the banshee is always counter by the mass queen and its a waste of tech. On his thread : prot terran strategy Q/A , Ver says that the hellion-banshee opening is the only one he thinks good. Thank The hellion banshee harass that is quite rapidly becoming the new go-to build in the current TvZ metagame is good because it is safe and it forces the Zerg to make units to defend (everyone goes for early third these days). Also mapcontrol is being preserved. The logic behind it is that roaches cannot push the hellions back to the terran base when you have more than three banshees. It allows you to take an early third also since he can't push you effectively with ling/roach because it gets melted on the way. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
On August 29 2012 02:35 TheDwf wrote: Why do you talk about Thors to hold a ~6'30 Baneling bust? Factory after 1 rax FE dual gas begins around 4'30, so the fastest Thor you can get is 7'35. Sorry, I got the timings wrong as far as 6'30 baneling bust vs 1 rax FE is concerned. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
2,3,4 are special units, usually my tanks are on 2, for focus firing and when you need to siege quick. 3 is ghosts or banshees (depends on matchup), 4 vikings. 5 is cc's, 6 barracks, 7 factories, 8 starports. then 0 and 9 i use to hotkey my hitsquads such as a drop or a flanking squad as usually i dont want to overwrite my other 2,3,4 army hotkeys, or sometimes i have a raven hotkeyed to 0 or 9. if using lots of hotkeys feels weird or awkward at first thats normal, when you do get used to utilising them all it does make a small difference, can't understand why someone wouldn't want to utilise every single hotkey! | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 29 2012 03:43 Rasputincz wrote: Hihi top dia protoss who is switching to terrans. I have one problem with terran hotkeys. Here is my usage of hotkeys in each match up. tvt 1- army, 2 - starport, 3 - barracks, 4 - factory, 5- cc's tvp 1 - same, 2 - ghosts, 3 - same, 4 - starports, 5 - cc's tvz 1 -same, 2- banshees, 3- starports, 4- factory, 5- cc's (im using primary mech build) i was just wondering what is your ideal hotkey setup? I am struggling with late tvp when i want to control my army, vikings and ghosts properly and with my setup, i have vikings together with army and their control is sometimes too slow...any suggestions? On August 29 2012 03:54 Blazinghand wrote: You'll want your hotkeys split across production facilities in an effecient manner, leaving room for several groups of army control. One method I've seen several people use is: 1,2,3,4 for army, 5 for CCs, 6,7,8 for production If you can get by with just 3 armies hotkeys, you could shift one over and go with 1,2,3, for army, 4 for CCs,a nd 5,6,7 for production. Something I found useful was to make ~ into a control group so everything is easy to reach. What I used for a long time was ~,1,2 for control groups, 3 for CCs, 4,5,6 for Rax/Fact/Port. I'd typically hotkey my engi bays and armories together with my CCs cause why not Blazinghand has the right idea here. You want to try to get in about 3-4 standard hotkey groups for your army; this will make controlling your units and dealing with engagements a little easier. However, I recommend you DON'T get into the habit of having every hotkey specialized to 1 units (i.e. 1 for MM, 2 for medivacs, 3 for ghosts, 4 for vikings, 5 for marauders, 6 for drops, 7 for tanks....DONT DO THIS). You want the majority of your hotkeys to be based around macro. If your hotkeys are comfortable and allow you to macro more quickly, you have more time to spend on controlling your units. Personally, I like how Day9 sets up hotkeys in his guide to Secrets of Hotkeys, APM, and Mouse Movement. He has 4 as his CC, 1-3 as his army control groups, and then 5-7 as production. The only thing I added to this was using 9 and 0 for upgrades as well as moving 8 to the Tab key (or, as Blazinghand suggested the tilde ( ` ) key). This gives me 3 general army and positional hotkeys and a special hotkey for drops, harassment, etc. My lategame in TvP ends up being set up as 1 for MMM, 2 for vikings, and 3 for ghosts, as well as double drop set up as Tab. Hope this clears up some ideas! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 29 2012 09:25 NewbieOne wrote: Another question from me. Are there any known successful examples among pros or high master/GM winning a TvZ involving broodlords without using vikings (and I don't mean like never firing a shot but rather something that would obviously still have worked out equally well without vikings)? I've done it up to plat myself with a specific build (macro heavy hellion/thor with late-game marines to boost anti-air) but I'm interested in higher than diamond, preferably mid master or higher but not excluding low master. I know it would be risky, discouraged, few people would ever do it if at all etc. but I'd simply like to know if there are any examples of someone doing it. Can't find the game right now, which makes me upset...but essentially mech with a critical mass of thors kills Blords to death. There was a game from (I'm fairly certain) the recent MLG Summer Championship where the terran player did the Mvp-esque mech and just massed up like 12 thors. I FOUND IT!! TheSTC vs. Leenock G3 on Cloud Kingdom!! Basically, at one point TheSTC loses all of his vikings to a fungal, but the thors are still enough to rip through BLords. I honestly think that if you can get a decent number of thors and ravens up, thor/hellion/raven is the money mix...you can just completely cut out vikings. The only issue with that is that it doesn't force zerg to make corruptors, which means more BLs. So...vikings might be a necessity just for composition skewing. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
On August 28 2012 18:53 dynwar7 wrote: For those who play Bio vs mech in tvt, what is your advice? What I need help also, is sending small strike forces. We bio players need to do this vs mech, and when you send those small strike forces, do you hotkey them? LEts say you are sending 3 strike forces. Do you hotkey them to 1,2,and 3? Or you dont hotkey them and just click on the minimap each time you want to control them? Still need help, I think people missed it | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:57 whatevername wrote: what do I do if I rax fe right at my nat and a zerg opens up with like 6 lings? It was like 3 marines vs 6 with 2 more coming and it made me lose a couple scvs in order to hold my cc, and then the guy just massed tons of lings and broke my bunker [which was kind of my fault at being slow to transfer but I only had like 4 marines vs like 20 lings]. Just as kind of precautionary measure, before you get comfortable with early game scouting and being able to scout the number of lings coming at you, just build a blind bunker that covers both your ramp and CC. It will delay your other barracks or gas by a little, but it will save you from having to deal with this headache. Watch a few pro games and note where pros place their bunker. It's generally tucked against the wall next to the ramp near the SCVs mining. This allows minimum surface area plus the ability to quickly pull SCVs to repair. The result of your bunker being broken was probably a perceived weakness by your opponent; he saw that the early 6 lings killed off some stuff and thought he could break you with more. Hope this helps! | ||
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neggro
United States591 Posts
tvp, building lots of bunkers at the front (3+) will almost always be good against pushes from protoss. spread them out so you can fit as many scvs around them for mass repair. the more surface area, the more forcefields he will have to use to deny repair. | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
I noticed since the last IEM, MVP has been using helion banshee in his matchups particularly vs zergs. However, I saw supernova do it vs MC as well. So my question is.... 1. Can this hellion/banshee opener be used outside TvZ? What about TvP and TvT also? 2. Is this opener micro intensive? In my experience yes.....but I want to hear your opinions. EDIT: 3. However, based on my (maybe noob)experience, if the enemy can withstand this hellion/banshee opener, wont you just die to counterattacks? Thanks! :D | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On August 29 2012 20:57 dynwar7 wrote: hi guys. I noticed since the last IEM, MVP has been using helion banshee in his matchups particularly vs zergs. However, I saw supernova do it vs MC as well. So my question is.... 1. Can this hellion/banshee opener be used outside TvZ? What about TvP and TvT also? 2. Is this opener micro intensive? In my experience yes.....but I want to hear your opinions. EDIT: 3. However, based on my (maybe noob)experience, if the enemy can withstand this hellion/banshee opener, wont you just die to counterattacks? Thanks! :D 1. It probably can, but it is optimized for tvz, pro's don't use it in the other matchup for a reason. 2. Yeah it is.. Especially holding properly executed allins is a pain in the ass. I cannot do it myself.. Players like Kas and Beasty have some amazing micro and build order execution and it is barely enough to hold certain allins. 3. You should not just suicide it in, if you don't do that you should be fine with the newly spawning hellions and thors/tanks or your bio army or w/e you're remaking. There is no excuse for losing your banshees, so simply don't do that. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On August 29 2012 20:57 dynwar7 wrote: hi guys. I noticed since the last IEM, MVP has been using helion banshee in his matchups particularly vs zergs. However, I saw supernova do it vs MC as well. So my question is.... 1. Can this hellion/banshee opener be used outside TvZ? What about TvP and TvT also? 2. Is this opener micro intensive? In my experience yes.....but I want to hear your opinions. EDIT: 3. However, based on my (maybe noob)experience, if the enemy can withstand this hellion/banshee opener, wont you just die to counterattacks? Thanks! :D 1) of course, any opening can be used in any of the matchups IMO. it's just about what you want to do with it. it's very effective in tvz cause you want to force units that aren't drones. 2) yes, very cause you can't lose any units really 3) you're supposed to be building up an army/expanding but hellion and banshees can punish zergs that move out cause you should have map control | ||
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kranten
Netherlands236 Posts
On August 29 2012 20:57 dynwar7 wrote: hi guys. I noticed since the last IEM, MVP has been using helion banshee in his matchups particularly vs zergs. However, I saw supernova do it vs MC as well. So my question is.... 1. Can this hellion/banshee opener be used outside TvZ? What about TvP and TvT also? I've seen MVP use some kind of hellion/banshee as a mech opener against Polt in WCS (RO1, vods on youtube I think). He lost both games as the build is stupidly greedy and it looked like Polt prepared a specific counter. It may be good for metagaming but I wouldn't use it on ladder, you're also kind of forced into mech as you delay stim/CS alot and you can't hide behind a wall because of tanks. I don't think it's a good build for ladder TvP, stalkers are good against both units. Haven't seen that MC vs Supernova game though so I might be wrong. | ||
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