EPTThere is the 2 - rax, with 11-11 or 12-14 variations, is there a well written guide on the 2 rax?
What other all-ins or 1 base builds are there versus Zerg?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 347
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ShaneFeit
92 Posts
There is the 2 - rax, with 11-11 or 12-14 variations, is there a well written guide on the 2 rax? What other all-ins or 1 base builds are there versus Zerg? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:37 ShaneFeit wrote: Can anyone share guides to all-ins versus Zerg. I am still struggling a lot in this match up and I have decided to redo it from scratch, going to focus on 1 base play then move to 2 base etc. There is the 2 - rax, with 11-11 or 12-14 variations, is there a well written guide on the 2 rax? What other all-ins or 1 base builds are there versus Zerg? 1-base play is not really viable against Zerg. Drone scout + Overlord not scouting expand + (double) Overlord sacrifice will give him enough information to crush anything you're doing, whether it's mass Marines/SCVs, Marine/Tanks/Banshees, 2-port Cloak Banshees, Marine/Thor, Hellion/Marauder/SCVs or whatever. Mass Queens + Zerglings/Banes + Spines/Spores will defend everything. The “best” things would be 11/12/12 Marine/SCV all-in or proxy 11/11 with some SCVs pulled → 4 rax Marine/SCV all-in, but both are unreliable because Zerg should be able to hold them with proper scouting and reactions. 2-bases play is not really any better. 1- or 2-bases all-ins rely on Zerg not bothering to scout or having an awful reaction, so you won't learn anything about the match-up practicing exclusively things like that. | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:37 ShaneFeit wrote: Can anyone share guides to all-ins versus Zerg. I am still struggling a lot in this match up and I have decided to redo it from scratch, going to focus on 1 base play then move to 2 base etc. There is the 2 - rax, with 11-11 or 12-14 variations, is there a well written guide on the 2 rax? What other all-ins or 1 base builds are there versus Zerg? 2 Rax(12,14 1 rax hidden) still works pretty fine and can leave you in a very good position if you don´t commit too much to your pressure. The most important thing with this build is to NOT fight on creep and you have to be able to stutter step with your marines.Then you can build your natrual cc arround 4:30-5:00 and transition into some kind of factory tech like blueflame hellions or tanks or even 2 port banshee in adaption to his reaction. All 1 base builds are just too easy to scout with a sacrifice overlord and easy to defend. Alone 1 overlord on your expandtion in combination with a drone scout can give him all the information he needs. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
Just keep practicing and don't say to yourself it's impossible, it's not. The more you say it's worthless and you can't win, the more likely you're not going to. Just find a style that works for you and keep playing! | ||
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kranten
Netherlands236 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:37 ShaneFeit wrote: Can anyone share guides to all-ins versus Zerg. I am still struggling a lot in this match up and I have decided to redo it from scratch, going to focus on 1 base play then move to 2 base etc. There is the 2 - rax, with 11-11 or 12-14 variations, is there a well written guide on the 2 rax? What other all-ins or 1 base builds are there versus Zerg? Hellion/marauder: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=310757¤tpage=3 2 port banshee: don't know the BO, just get 2 starports asap, move out with 4 banshees and keep rallying more. He either scouts it and has spores when you arrive or he doesn't and you kill him. A variation is 4 port banshee, I think Naama used it against Suppy. Basicly you just 1 rax expand and go for 4 starports instead of one. It works well because many zergs hardly scout after they see your 1 rax expand. 11/11 rax is always a fun cheese. If you're looking for vods I think Select 2 raxd alot in the TSL games. You can do it the way you prefer; you can proxy the rax right outside your main so you can use them to walloff later on or near their base so you hit earlier, you can pull more or less scvs, cut scvs for whatever, etc. The more you invest the more damage it has to do. A followup if you feel like you didn't get out ahead is to build 2 more barracks (proxied) get a bunch of marines and marine/scv allin. If you decide to macro, expand, walloff with barracks as people like to followup with a baneling bust. A great trick on entombed is to place 1-2 marines in the corner of the ramp on the low ground and seal off with a bunker. Start another bunker on the high ground and the scv will be protected by the marines. | ||
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Deleted User 255289
281 Posts
http://drop.sc/244622 | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Deleted User 255289
281 Posts
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whatevername
471 Posts
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KaraganBoobSsauce
Canada8 Posts
also how should i deal with seige tanks when im trying to infiltrate a guys base. it seems better off just to wait for him to come out then try and bust open and own his base? also last thing what do you mean by going all in? should i start making spine crawlers all over the map or something or leaving my units scattered around the map?>? | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
On August 30 2012 14:27 superbarnie wrote: Thanks for the quick response and information. So what do you mean by "active with your marines"? Should I send all my marines to attack him or just try to secure xel nagas? And how do you mean "scout aggression"? Is there certain signs that indicate aggression? How would I differentiate between a roach bust or a baneling bust if I can't see the roach warren or baneling nest (unless i scan)? The first tell is the timing of the first gas. Leave your scouting scv in his main and check whether he takes gas or not until his pool finishes. That should be arround 4 mins. If he takes gas the earliest moment for him to allin is 3 mins later. The other thing you can check for is the 3rd base. Constantly check it and when he doesnt have one arround 6:30 prepare for an allin but kerp in mind that he also can go for mutas or a later 3rd with more units. Other tells you can gather with your marines. When you have 4 get xour watchtower and see how many lings he builds 6 lings is already 1 wasted drone, but if you see more than 6 walk home and bunker up. In general there is no problem with builing 3-4 precaucios bunkers when you do 1rax into 3 rax because you can allways salvage them. If you see no 3rd you can use a scan in his main and check for lair tech. If he goes lair that means no allin, if not it means allin by that time. But you can be tricked when he builds his lair at his natrual, so its a bit of a gamble but most players use the main for lair. | ||
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KaraganBoobSsauce
Canada8 Posts
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
 I really appreciate you sharing so much with me, this is very helpful.On August 30 2012 14:51 whatevername wrote: Does anyone have a good replay of a mech player for TVT/alternatively just a build a order in general? Thorzain's TvT in Day9 Daily #394 (not mech). *** I've got a question about Kas vs MC on Atlantis Spaceship, G3 at RO12 of IEM: + Show Spoiler + Around 16:50 of the game, which is about 12:50 of the video, Kas stims without medivacs to defend his nat ramp after losing his third. Day9 says that stim a mistake but I wonder if Kas would actually have got better results in that engagement without stimming at that point? | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
Also would the 2base tank pushes like Supernova did today be a good ladder build, any tips/bo on how to execute them? I'm just tired of this matchup and I fucking hate it, I dont like to play it, I dont want to learn it and I have less than 20% winrate since like 6 months, so I might as well all-in every TvP game. God I hate protoss so much T.T | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On August 31 2012 06:07 BobMcJohnson wrote: What am I supposed to do when I win a lategame fight vs protoss? I just dont know what to do, I just played a half an hour long game where I won every single lategame fight until the last one, but I couldn't do anything after them because of chargelot warp-ins. Is there any way to press my advantage? Also would the 2base tank pushes like Supernova did today be a good ladder build, any tips/bo on how to execute them? I'm just tired of this matchup and I fucking hate it, I dont like to play it, I dont want to learn it and I have less than 20% winrate since like 6 months, so I might as well all-in every TvP game. God I hate protoss so much T.T If you really want to beat protoss lategame you need to win an engagement convincingly and then ride it to the end. The best way to accomplish this is with a 160+ supply army where you've thrown away scvs in favour of mules. If you don't win an engagement convincingly then you really should not be able to keep pressing forward because Toss production will always be one cycle in front of yours. Have you tried opening with tech instead of 1 rax FE? I've practically taken 1 rax Fe out of my play in TvP and my gameplay vs Toss feels a lot better. 1 rax fe allows the Protoss to take too much control of the game for my liking. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
On August 30 2012 17:59 Rasputincz wrote: hello, im looking for some solid build order for 1/1/1 with helion drop following up with cloak banshees and then push with the whole army. Problem is that i dont know bo's and timings. Any help will be appreciated! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290571 My favorite one. 3 hellion drop into 2 port banshee with a raven. A lot of Protosses scout 111 and go immortal zealot heavy LOL. This Should lose to Nexus first if Protoss doesn't run/line up their probes like a moron so I do a fast 2 tank push (Don't make a hellion or a starport or your push will be too late, don't wait for 3 tanks either. proxy the second barracks for high ground vision on the maps with ramps at the natural; you don't have time or money for a second reactor on the second barracks like he suggests in my experience) | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 31 2012 07:47 Absentia wrote: If you really want to beat protoss lategame you need to win an engagement convincingly and then ride it to the end. The best way to accomplish this is with a 160+ supply army where you've thrown away scvs in favour of mules. If you don't win an engagement convincingly then you really should not be able to keep pressing forward because Toss production will always be one cycle in front of yours. Have you tried opening with tech instead of 1 rax FE? I've practically taken 1 rax Fe out of my play in TvP and my gameplay vs Toss feels a lot better. 1 rax fe allows the Protoss to take too much control of the game for my liking. Playing against protoss lategame is the same as playing TvT or TvZ in the lategame, just a little accelerated. After a huge maxed battle that you win, you want to be able to secure 1 more base than your opponent always. Just keep expanding, deny him the opportunity to expand, and just make sure you're moving your units around to be in position to defend/deny expansions. In other words, you don't need to kill them right then and there, you can wait. The only thing that signals the win for terran is when protoss runs out of money for "big" units (archons/templar/colossus) or if you snipe those structures while approaching max. That being said, you'll have better luck 1) doing a marauder drop during max vs. max and sniping tech stuff or 2) just relaxing after a big engagement, macroing, and just making sure you're up on bases. Hope this helps! | ||
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Rasputincz
Czech Republic95 Posts
Thoughts? | ||
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