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On August 03 2012 11:39 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 09:12 siii wrote:
how do one scout/stop a 4 gate robo(warp prism) all in? One gas + no expand at the 5' mark + no 4G at front. 4GR prism hits around the 6'30 mark or a bit later, so have vision at the edges of your base; if you don't have enough (e. g. you went 1 rax FE), pull many SCVs and crush him right away, otherwise the attack snowballs and you lose. Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 09:28 jinx1281255 wrote:
Hey guys,
I have been watching pro-streams and am wondering about their 1 rax expo builds. Most opt for the 3:15 expo, cutting marine and SCV to get it then.
That said, I have been using a slight variation that gets me continual SCV and marine production and a 3:30 CC. Is it really better to go for the 3:15 CC if you're going to lose production of SCVs and Marines for that time period?
I hope this is not too stupid of a question to ask :-S
Jinx 1 rax CC16 gets 1 more SCV while 1 rax CC18 is safer (less vulnerable to proxy gates, etc.) and can be hidden by an early wall off. You choose.Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 11:03 rofllocktree wrote:
gold player TvP question:
when I scout chronoboost on cybernetics core about 4:00-4:30, where there always be a 4gate coming? No.
Actually, the build I'm doing gets the second depot (safer), doesn't skip marines or SCVs (safer and good economy). The way I execute it looks like this:
-12 Rax (pause when at 14 supply with 100 minerals to start 2nd depot to get wall-off for 5 seconds and then back to rax--in addition to blocking some scouts this also lines up final SCV rax completion time so orbital can start immediately)
-Use SCV on rax to finish 2nd depot after rax completion
-Use SCV on depot to plant expansion at natural and send 1st marine to scout at exactly 3:28.
At least in my lower league (gold) this seems like a better option than a 3:45 CC (too late) or a 3:15 CC (too weak against all-ins).
What do you think?
-Jinx
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Seems fine, it's never going to make a big difference. I don't think a second depot is any safer, the primary advantage is preventing scouting, or at least guaranteeing a probe kill.
Dunno about marine scout vs protoss, does it get to see much?
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On August 04 2012 03:41 PureMetal wrote:
It's extremely frustrating how much of a commitment it feels like moving out against a zerg because you risk a complete loss by surround and fungals if your tanks are not ready OR a back stab.
Yes. That's why it's vital to use scans / stim some Marines slightly forward to have a better vision. But even then, it's hard since Speedlings are so fast on creep that you can still get caught siegeing late.
There are Tank-free compositions such as pure bio (with lots of Medivacs) or bio + BFHellions, you may try to use them.
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On August 04 2012 06:12 RaigoR wrote:
1) What opening is the best nowadays? Of course it’s hard to tell it definitely, because I’ve seen some amazing games of mkp’s 12/14 into stim timing or thorzain’s turtle style of 3cc with hellions and banshees, and both of them went extremely in favor of terran, I want to know what build can accomplish 2 goals: staying on good economy and having the philosophy of always harassing the zerg with some kind of ability to punish greedy plays.
I, personally, used to play reac hellions into 3 tank push or reaper expo into 2 medivac drop play, which are now seem to be pretty much obsolete.
12/14 → double expand on short distances, or 1 rax FE (or CC first) → hellions → banshees → third which can transition to Marine/Tanks (in which case you get double EB) or mech (you may get double armory). People sometimes get their third CC before building Hellions, but be careful if your opponent took his gas as it's vulnerable to early Roach play or Baneling busts.
1 rax FE or CC first can also transition to 3 rax medivacs with some Hellions; some players build Marauders out of 2 Lab Barracks for this timing (which hits when Medivacs are ready). After this timing, you get your third and tech Tanks.
On August 04 2012 06:12 RaigoR wrote:
2) When do you need to take 3rd and be fairly safe in terms of securing it without a hell of a micro?
It depends on what your opponent is doing. If he's playing passive and you have map control thanks to Hellions/Banshees, you can land it early with some good building placement to protect it from lings raids.
On August 04 2012 06:12 RaigoR wrote:
3) What’s your plan in the midgame? How do you push zerg?
Securing your third, building what once was the pre-Hive push and overall disturbing the Zerg player in his expansion by trying to push back creep, drop (especially the furthest expands), etc. Scouting what your opponent is planning to do at tier3 is also important, though it's of course impossible before seeing units if the Zerg player morphs a Greater Spire and builds an Ultralisk Cavern.
Your goal with your max or near-max push is to kill his most exposed expand (typically his fourth as it should be his closest expand—the shorter the road the better).
On August 04 2012 06:12 RaigoR wrote:
4) What unit composition is the shit in the lategame? What proportion of units in it should the terran be building?
Since Blizzard killed mass Ghosts strategy we have to adapt to the Zerg composition. While it's straightforward for Ultralisks—you just add Marauders to your Marine/Tanks/Medivacs mix—it's a lot trickier for Broodlords/Corruptors/Infestors/Queens. Basically we don't have anything that can deal with it cost-efficiently once the numbers of them are too high. You want some kind of Marine/Thor/Viking/Raven mix at the beginning, possibly with some Ghosts to EMP Infestors, but you really have to prevent the Zerg player from getting too much gas or his ultimate army will simply crush you. You may try some BattleCruisers but you likely won't have enough time to get a solid fleet. In the end, you need to exploit Broodlords' immobility by splitting your forces and sending parts of them at different places at the same time to slowly killing his economy; in short, a war of attrition. Nukes are also an option for this.
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so plat lvl terran here. for so long in the zerg match-up i've avoided going marine-tank. just sticking to mainly a bio ball style relying on early marauder hellion aggression. but as i go higher in the ladder i begin to realize i get baneling busted more often and i need more map control and need to hold beter defensive positions. i have been watching taeja's replays as of late. but what i'm wondering is if there are any guides to marine tank play out there that would be helpful for a beginner in this style. Thanks!!
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On August 04 2012 08:53 ImANinjaBich wrote:
so plat lvl terran here. for so long in the zerg match-up i've avoided going marine-tank. just sticking to mainly a bio ball style relying on early marauder hellion aggression. but as i go higher in the ladder i begin to realize i get baneling busted more often and i need more map control and need to hold beter defensive positions. i have been watching taeja's replays as of late. but what i'm wondering is if there are any guides to marine tank play out there that would be helpful for a beginner in this style. Thanks!!
It's actually very simple IMO.
Keep the tanks spread out so the Banelings/Ultras can't AoE them down efficiently. Make sure you stim marines ahead of your force to be aware of your enemies army position.
Apart from that Day9 may have a few dailies about it so go look in his archive 
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What's the timing for a Zerg to get his first gas if he's going fast 3 Hatch? I could've sworn it was after the 4 minute mark, but I could be mistaken.
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On August 04 2012 06:12 RaigoR wrote:
Since Blizzard killed mass Ghosts strategy we have to adapt to the Zerg composition. While it's straightforward for Ultralisks—you just add Marauders to your Marine/Tanks/Medivacs mix—it's a lot trickier for Broodlords/Corruptors/Infestors/Queens. Basically we don't have anything that can deal with it cost-efficiently once the numbers of them are too high. You want some kind of Marine/Thor/Viking/Raven mix at the beginning, possibly with some Ghosts to EMP Infestors, but you really have to prevent the Zerg player from getting too much gas or his ultimate army will simply crush you. You may try some BattleCruisers but you likely won't have enough time to get a solid fleet. In the end, you need to exploit Broodlords' immobility by splitting your forces and sending parts of them at different places at the same time to slowly killing his economy; in short, a war of attrition. Nukes are also an option for this.[/QUOTE]
The most cost efficient army vs zerg? Start with mech and transition into Thor/Raven/Viking and few hellions for ling runbys.
Make orbitals and be around 20-30 scvs lategame(late lategame). If you survive until this stage and have all this there is no way you can lose.
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When going mech, is it common to get late upgrades? I mean on 2 bases, I need all my gas on tanks and vikings. Simply not enough for upgrades. Maybe when im on my 3rd base, I can go....1 armory or double armory?
In the early game for mech, gas is super tight, so it is better to spend them on units not upgrades correct?
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On August 04 2012 11:57 dynwar7 wrote:
When going mech, is it common to get late upgrades? I mean on 2 bases, I need all my gas on tanks and vikings. Simply not enough for upgrades. Maybe when im on my 3rd base, I can go....1 armory or double armory?
In the early game for mech, gas is super tight, so it is better to spend them on units not upgrades correct?
either you go for a super heavy upgrade style with double armory before fac 2&3 or you start your armories as the same time as your third while producing on 3fac and a port, not constantly on the port.
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On August 04 2012 11:57 dynwar7 wrote:
When going mech, is it common to get late upgrades? I mean on 2 bases, I need all my gas on tanks and vikings. Simply not enough for upgrades. Maybe when im on my 3rd base, I can go....1 armory or double armory?
In the early game for mech, gas is super tight, so it is better to spend them on units not upgrades correct?
Depends on what opener your opponent went for, and how greedy you feel you can be. You'll definitely get later upgrades than you would with bio though.
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Diamond Terran.
A few questions here that have been bugging me.
What's your goal with the typical 1rax fe 2 medivac/marine marauder push? All i know is that it forces him to show his tech(collossus or HT) but i never know what to actually do when i'm at his base, i usually try to stim in which leads to my whole army being killled T_T.
This is more of a general question and it's hard to explain but anyway but anyway, when you execute a build order like 1 rax FE, it says 10 depot 12 rax etc right. Then later on it might say 24 Command Center, my question is why you build it at that point. My guess is that you just keep making scvs/marines untill you got a spare 400 minerals, is this true with all build timings? Other examples:extra barracks for marauder hellion timing in TvZ, a bunker when 1rax FEing in TvP. Early 3rd when doing the ForGG build.
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Yeah pretty much your push is just scouting and checking he isn't being too greedy. There is nothing wrong with just having a look and then turning back, or perhaps waiting at the tower.
You build things at certain points either because it is a necessity (bunker) or it is efficient. It is not always most efficient to build something as soon as possible. Also sometimes you might might want to cut units to get something slightly quicker.
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Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone had tips on scouting Z early aggression. I get hit by these weird timings of either full ling or ling,bane aggression that just come outa nowhere. Sometimes it occurs right after I FE, and other times it occurs between like 6:30-8 or so.
Is there some sort of great time to scan a Z's base?
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On August 05 2012 06:15 Tausken wrote:
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone had tips on scouting Z early aggression. I get hit by these weird timings of either full ling or ling,bane aggression that just come outa nowhere. Sometimes it occurs right after I FE, and other times it occurs between like 6:30-8 or so.
Is there some sort of great time to scan a Z's base?
i have the same problem... its only exacerbated by the queen change cuz terrans generally opt for greedier builds to stay level in eco.. however i really do think you have to get helions... theres no other way around it... i suppose if you scout no gas mmm is viable but when i see gas i instantly throw down two gases to get those scouting helions(i 1raxfe). plus they're pretty effective against slow banes lings in conjunction with a bunker being repaired.
My Question is: is 1 rax fe into reactored helions more economical then 14 gas into helions into expo? do i really need the helions that early?
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Hi, I am having trouble figuring how to counter the rather popular new toss build, the 2 base storm all in.
In both games I scouted his templars with my 10mn push, and as I saw he didn't seem to be willing to take a 3rd I bunkered the shit out of my natural (4/5 bunkers), but still got rolled, even dodging some storms and repairing quite a lot, and using high ground to have my non bunkered units safe on cloud kingdom. Zealots and archons were too much for me to handle. I'm diamond by the way, so my macro is not terrible and I couldn't have had way more at that point.
My question is obviously, how do you counter it? Bunkers are useful but don't seem to be enough, with storms and archons raping SCVs, and zealots tanking a lot of damage. Do you go for very fast ghosts? Is is really affordable on 2 bases (as even if you have a 3rd cc you obviously can't land it)
I used the search function but didn't find any discussion/advice on it, so here I go, sorry if it has already been asked 
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Replay?
The key with zealots is to have a wall with a small hole in it, this way they funnel in and don't auto attack the wall.
Also consider tanks, these do well against almost anything and are easily affordable.
Additionally consider a cloak banshee since he almost certainly doesn't have a robo, this on it's own might win the game or even force a draw!
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http://drop.sc/234033
Hey guys, just got into gold.
Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong vs. zerg? I have NO idea how to push properly...
Also, I'd really like a good mech build vs zerg if you don't mind. I like relying on outmacroing my opponents rather than microing... so marine siege isn't a good choice for me...
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EPT
