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+ Show Spoiler +On July 30 2012 18:38 dynwar7 wrote:
I have been confused in TvT for almost 2 months now....I just really hate tanks, and I will tell you some of my problems.
If I play bio, I need to be super aggressive and abuse my mobility. It is just really so much work. I was thinking of sky terran but its not a proper build I think...just something I can transition to. Plus sky terran takes ages to macro/reproduce. So, I am left with meching myself, but I absolutely hate tank stalemates that go 30+ minutes...this is the reason I dont play mech, I prefer fast paced, action packed games, hence why I use bio, but it is hard, when he has turret rings and sensor tower, etc. and he has soooo many tanks, I find it hard to win....
Must I really mech vs mech....?
The only way I know when I am bio is to use nuke to force unsiege, does anybody have replays of this in pro play?
What can I do in TvT? -.-
The biggest strength of a bio opener is mapcontrol. When your opponent opens mech he has to wait for a critical number of tanks and hellions to take a position for example to take a 3rd base. The biggest strength of a bio into bio-tank opener is to aggressivly push towards your opponents 3rd and contain him, while you are taking your 3rd faster and build up a very good production. For example if ou open the standard 1 rax fe into 3 rax starport you can use your 1st 2 medivacs to take a position at his 3rd base. Then you can reinforce your push with tanks and siegemode. With this you can deny your opponent´s 3rd base by a lot. Just keep a few units at home to defend aggainst blueflame hellion drops and you can set yourself in a very good position. Also use 1 or 2 marines on the map to make sure your opponent doesn´t get a hidden expandtion. As soon as your opponent unsieges his tanks to take a 3rd stim and push into him to kill a lot of his stuff, while your tanks will keep the position after your bio died and your reinforcement is there.
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Thanks both.
Regarding nuke to force unsiege, I know how to nuke at a safe distance outside tanks range, but cant they just bring their hellions/marines to kill the ghost nuking? I would love to see this "nuke to force unsiege" in pro play, so I can get a better idea how it works.
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On July 30 2012 17:48 Willzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 15:43 VPVanek wrote:
I'm having such hard time dealing with TVP, the matchup honestly makes me want to pull my hair out.
It feels like protoss can just sit in their fucking base, and then do whatever they want.
And when its 200/200, my controll has to be 100% tip top to win, and protoss just storms and A moves all their fucking units. If you want some advice you need to post some replays. What you have written is very vague and sounds more like a balance rant than a request for advice. Is it that you are having difficulty putting pressure on in the mid game before toss maxes out?
I sure do have difficulty doing that
i use bomber style, 3 rax, 1 TL into starport, move out with 2 med's at around 10 min
can try drop one load in main whilst poking front...
never get anywhere 
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On July 30 2012 22:06 bwodie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 17:48 Willzzz wrote:On July 30 2012 15:43 VPVanek wrote:
I'm having such hard time dealing with TVP, the matchup honestly makes me want to pull my hair out.
It feels like protoss can just sit in their fucking base, and then do whatever they want.
And when its 200/200, my controll has to be 100% tip top to win, and protoss just storms and A moves all their fucking units. If you want some advice you need to post some replays. What you have written is very vague and sounds more like a balance rant than a request for advice. Is it that you are having difficulty putting pressure on in the mid game before toss maxes out? I sure do have difficulty doing that i use bomber style, 3 rax, 1 TL into starport, move out with 2 med's at around 10 min can try drop one load in main whilst poking front... never get anywhere
Dropping both medivacs in the back is way better. If you have some units which don't fit in the medivacs, you can send them to his natural some seconds after he notices your drop in the main.
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When is the ideal time to move out with a TvP marine/scv allin?
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Sup Terrans! Here's my question:
Say I'm going for 1 Rax FE (Bomber style) in TvP...what are the signs of nexus first if I scout his base a little later? (Like if I don't get there before the gate and core are down)
Is 1 gate FE gate assimilator core THEN nexus?
Anyway, what are the proper responses to get an edge over the Protoss who goes nexus first?
Thanks!
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On July 30 2012 21:53 dynwar7 wrote:
Thanks both.
Regarding nuke to force unsiege, I know how to nuke at a safe distance outside tanks range, but cant they just bring their hellions/marines to kill the ghost nuking? I would love to see this "nuke to force unsiege" in pro play, so I can get a better idea how it works.
In addition to this, is it just.....impossible for bio to win vs mech? Does the bio player have to play SUPER aggressive?
I would love someone to confirm that nuking to force unsiege works in high level play too, not just low level
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On July 30 2012 22:06 bwodie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 17:48 Willzzz wrote:On July 30 2012 15:43 VPVanek wrote:
I'm having such hard time dealing with TVP, the matchup honestly makes me want to pull my hair out.
It feels like protoss can just sit in their fucking base, and then do whatever they want.
And when its 200/200, my controll has to be 100% tip top to win, and protoss just storms and A moves all their fucking units. If you want some advice you need to post some replays. What you have written is very vague and sounds more like a balance rant than a request for advice. Is it that you are having difficulty putting pressure on in the mid game before toss maxes out? I sure do have difficulty doing that i use bomber style, 3 rax, 1 TL into starport, move out with 2 med's at around 10 min can try drop one load in main whilst poking front... never get anywhere
You really need to post a replay. You need to poke and prod all over and at different times. People expect a drop at 10 mins and look for it. It becomes much easier to drop once protoss has 3 bases, also don't neglect doing a good old frontal assault.
Try to engage at a point where your vikings have a safe spot, on many maps there is such a spot between the opponents 2nd and 3rd so you can snipe a colossus every time they move between bases.
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Scary question that I'm sure has been discussed before...
Watching some mechanically great Terrans recently (Byun, MKP, Illusion), I noticed that they all use tabbed production instead of individual hotkeys... anyone have some insight as to switching over? Pros & cons?
side.q: does anyone know whether Taeja uses tabbed production?
TY TY
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On July 31 2012 01:00 chambertin wrote:
Scary question that I'm sure has been discussed before...
Watching some mechanically great Terrans recently (Byun, MKP, Illusion), I noticed that they all use tabbed production instead of individual hotkeys... anyone have some insight as to switching over? Pros & cons?
side.q: does anyone know whether Taeja uses tabbed production?
TY TY
The Pros outweigh the Cons for tabbed production, the Cons being difficult to reteach yourself new hotkey layouts.
With everything on one hotkey, you save more hotkeys for Army control or other buildings. You can also see all of your production in one place, so you can always check if you are producing units from all of your buildings. It also allows you to rally everything to to one location easily.
I don't know about Taeja though, sorry!
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 31 2012 01:00 chambertin wrote:
Scary question that I'm sure has been discussed before...
Watching some mechanically great Terrans recently (Byun, MKP, Illusion), I noticed that they all use tabbed production instead of individual hotkeys... anyone have some insight as to switching over? Pros & cons?
side.q: does anyone know whether Taeja uses tabbed production?
TY TY
Pro:
- Using less hotkeys for production buildings
For myself i used it to hotkey all my upgrade buildings (ebays,armories,techlabs,ghost academy) to 6
Con:
- Setting individual rallypoints for barracks,factories and starport is more difficult
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Are there any general guides to play Terran with builds and info that is somewhat current? Or at least matchup guides? I haven't played in over a year and have no idea where to start back up again with what builds/playstyles are popular and all that. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 31 2012 03:11 GriNn wrote:
Are there any general guides to play Terran with builds and info that is somewhat current? Or at least matchup guides? I haven't played in over a year and have no idea where to start back up again with what builds/playstyles are popular and all that. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Search the forum for the [G] From Bronze to Masters and you´ll find a step by step introduction how you slowly advance through the leagues and improve your skill. The series is 15 episodes long and cover´s a 1 rax fe into 3 rax bio play in every matchup for basics as well as adaptions to the build. The best thing here is that you have benchmarks to check whether you did the build correctly or not. So have fun.
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On July 31 2012 03:38 Sianos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 31 2012 03:11 GriNn wrote:
Are there any general guides to play Terran with builds and info that is somewhat current? Or at least matchup guides? I haven't played in over a year and have no idea where to start back up again with what builds/playstyles are popular and all that. any help would be greatly appreciated. Search the forum for the [G] From Bronze to Masters and you´ll find a step by step introduction how you slowly advance through the leagues and improve your skill. The series is 15 episodes long and cover´s a 1 rax fe into 3 rax bio play in every matchup for basics as well as adaptions to the build. The best thing here is that you have benchmarks to check whether you did the build correctly or not. So have fun.
Thanks!
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United States4883 Posts
On July 30 2012 14:51 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 13:01 SC2John wrote:On July 30 2012 10:14 ThePianoDentist wrote:On July 30 2012 08:08 monkybone wrote:On July 30 2012 08:01 Chaggi wrote:On July 30 2012 07:57 monkybone wrote:On July 30 2012 07:42 SC2John wrote:On July 30 2012 00:29 monkybone wrote:On July 30 2012 00:08 saaaa wrote:How do i react properly if i scout a nexus first and i plan to play a FE into 5 rax naked marine push? The push is designed to destroy his expansion or do at least significant damage to their economy but against a nexus first he will has enough units to defend it without suffer economic damage. I normally scout after my rax at 12 supply finished. Is there a way how i can punish it really hard and maybe outright kill him? replays are welcome  5 rax doesn't need to do damage and is certainly not designed to do so in general. It's a pressure push which must immediately be retracted if you see he has sufficient forces, and can only do damage to a Protoss cutting corners, e.g expecting a 1 rax expo into 3rax. Your tech is behind, but you're economically ahead. I think I understand what you're saying here, but I think it needs to be clarified. The point of ANY early marine push (before 8:00) in TvP is to DELAY TECH. In 40% of circumstances, you will end up walking into his expansion, killing off a few units, maybe even killing a few a probes and overall doing some fairly significant damage. In another 10%, you can actually just win right there. In another 50% of circumstances, the protoss will be well prepared with 3-4 sentries, some zealots, some stalkers; in this case, there is NO PROBLEM with pulling marines back, as you have delayed his tech substantially by forcing him to make gas units. Seeing as how the nexus first builds delay tech already, it's perfectly fine to just forgo that attack and rely on your tech advantage. This means getting double ups, getting faster medivacs, etc. EDIT: I like the bunker rush, but it's got to be something you're sure of to cancel the CC, get a second barracks, and push early. We've seen Mvp do this quite a bit, but you have to emphasize caution, especially on certain maps. Yep, good point, his tech will be delayed as well if he prepares accordingly with sentries and stalkers. So the 5 rax isn't a failed build just because you can't do damage. I've been using a 5 rax build as my go to build in TvP for the last few months. my win rate went from 10% TvP to 83%. and it's pretty rare that I kill the protoss with my first batch of marines. (maybe 15% of the time?), but it really helps with understanding the matchup and what exploits the holes that toss has That's pretty amazing, you're certainly far ahead if you manage to kill probes with it. 83% is crazy though, may I ask what league this is in? What's so good about it is that it punishes so many greedy and/or tech-heavy builds which the toss wants to abuse you with. DT drops, or DT timings in general are useless. Fast colossus tech, fast 3rd base, or just skimping on units is punished equally well. Furthermore, it's so safe against any 1 base or 2 base warpgate timings as you'll have a lot of marines. I've yet to see a solid counter-build to this. if the protoss can defend without taking major damage and is teching to colossi surely you are just dead? You may say if he's teching he can't hold that easily but just with a couple of stalkers, if he micros them properly your marines should take a fair bit of damage on the way to his base. also if he is doing a 6 gate, yes you are safe if you are in your base in bunkers....but if you're pushing out and you get caught in the middle of the map surely you lose your whole army? 1. For any early pressure before 8:00, 5rax is actually totally safe unless the protoss pulls off a really nice micro trick like a FF doughnut or cutting your army in half. Even in the middle of the map, there are SO many marines that it's difficult to beat. The only thing I've found that holds this off very well is early blink stalkers. 2. If the protoss can defend without taking any major damage...then yes, you're screwed. But having a lot of stalkers and kiting well with them still achieves the goal of DELAYING tech. All the terran player has to do is 1-a. Also, as a general rule, I like to push out with 8-9 marines to clear the watchtower before pushing. This will eliminate the threat of stalkers kiting you for the entire distance of the map and will also allow you a bit of surprise when you push. Try it out! It's quite good and quite easy to do. Unless the protoss defends really well and cleverly, you should be able to achieve the goal of delaying tech every game fairly easily. yes i always clear the watchtower with like 5-6 marines to don't show my high marine count and then push out with 3 SCV's and in nearly 80-90% of my games i finished the bunker and if he hasn't go for early collosus his expansion is dead but i want to know if there any "agressive" alternative to punish his nexus first hard, because he can hold it without no losses and then i'am behind with my follow up. Is it to late two switch into and all-in if i scout a protoss goes nexus first?
I mean, it's always viable to go 4-5ish rax, build nonstop marines, and then push at 7 minutes before warp gate is done with all your SCVs. But honestly, I'm confused as to why you want something else if your bunker rush is working. I mean, if you're having an issue where you're behind...then just stop the bunker rush after the first bunker and start teching. Or start getting gas earlier.
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United States4883 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:00 chambertin wrote:
Scary question that I'm sure has been discussed before...
Watching some mechanically great Terrans recently (Byun, MKP, Illusion), I noticed that they all use tabbed production instead of individual hotkeys... anyone have some insight as to switching over? Pros & cons?
side.q: does anyone know whether Taeja uses tabbed production?
TY TY
I personally DO NOT like tabbed production. In my opinion, it makes things very unclear during gameplay. I prefer to use MORE hotkeys for macro, LESS for army control. If you watch Mvp, a lot of times he just 1-a's and micros stuff individually, which is kind of my goal for microing. Obviously, it's good to have ghosts and vikings on separate hotkeys, etc, but I wouldn't go over 3 hotkeys for my army, just because I know I can micro stuff individually if I need to.
The other thing is the question about rally points. For this, I just spam 5-7 and right-click, save my camera location, and it takes about 2 seconds. No problem. And I've practiced the shift from 1-2-4 to 5-6-7 so that it's a very natural shift that I never miss.
Overall, it's just easier and, IMO, less time consuming to not have to deal with tabbing.
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Hey guys,
Just wondering if anyone knows of a place I can find J-Pegs of the best proxy two rax positions on ladder maps? Would be greatly appreciated if someone could link one if they know of something like that.
Thanks
Bogus
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On July 31 2012 06:48 BogusBart wrote:
Hey guys,
Just wondering if anyone knows of a place I can find J-Pegs of the best proxy two rax positions on ladder maps? Would be greatly appreciated if someone could link one if they know of something like that.
Thanks
Bogus
I'm sorry if this is unhelpful but there are about a million differnt two-rax positions...
You will see pros place them very differently depending on the matchup and how much they want to commit...
On CK TvZ for example: I've seen Demu put the raxes in his base and lift down then back up, put them just outside his main next to his third, outside their 4th, near their 5th etc. etc.
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I'm just trying to figure out the best spots on specific maps against Z... generally I put them in the middle on Entombed and Antiga, near 3rd on Ohana and Daybreak, I'm mostly unsure where to put them on Cloud Kingdom and Shakuras.
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EPT
