EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 316
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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toadahlmn
10 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 30 2012 09:40 toadahlmn wrote: how to deal with baneling bust. Plat T A roach ling/bane timing around 7-9 in game timing is hard for me to deal with. I dont wanna blindly build 3 bunkers every tvz, so is there a way to scout this? This gets addressed a lot in this thread. 1) With your initial scout, you should be able to see if zerg gets early gas up to 4:00. From the time the geyser first goes down, you have 3 minutes before zergling speed finishes and before you can expect any kind of baneling bust. 2) At 6:30-7:30, you should scout the 3rd with either an SCV or a handful of marines. Make sure you scout for it before zergling speed finishes (use the above timing). If you see no early 3rd, you can safely assume some kind of a bust, 2-base muta, or that your opponent is just bad. 3) Hold the watchtowers for as long as possible in the early game. At 7:00-9:00 is when you'll see zerglings or roaches streaming across the map. Prepare by having 1 bunker at your wall, and 1 bunker by your CC covering the ramp as well as a few marauders. Occasionally, it's okay to put a 3rd bunker in between the other 2 if you're feeling you can't hold. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On July 30 2012 09:55 SC2John wrote: This gets addressed a lot in this thread. 1) With your initial scout, you should be able to see if zerg gets early gas up to 4:00. From the time the geyser first goes down, you have 3 minutes before zergling speed finishes and before you can expect any kind of baneling bust. 2) At 6:30-7:30, you should scout the 3rd with either an SCV or a handful of marines. Make sure you scout for it before zergling speed finishes (use the above timing). If you see no early 3rd, you can safely assume some kind of a bust, 2-base muta, or that your opponent is just bad. 3) Hold the watchtowers for as long as possible in the early game. At 7:00-9:00 is when you'll see zerglings or roaches streaming across the map. Prepare by having 1 bunker at your wall, and 1 bunker by your CC covering the ramp as well as a few marauders. Occasionally, it's okay to put a 3rd bunker in between the other 2 if you're feeling you can't hold. @2) what about 2 base infestor? also scouting no third and knowing it could either be a 2 base tech build or 2 base all-in doesn't seem too helpful, as why are you blindly building bunkers against 2 base muta? I honestly don't think you can scout this without scanning | ||
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toadahlmn
10 Posts
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On July 30 2012 08:08 monkybone wrote: That's pretty amazing, you're certainly far ahead if you manage to kill probes with it. 83% is crazy though, may I ask what league this is in? What's so good about it is that it punishes so many greedy and/or tech-heavy builds which the toss wants to abuse you with. DT drops, or DT timings in general are useless. Fast colossus tech, fast 3rd base, or just skimping on units is punished equally well. Furthermore, it's so safe against any 1 base or 2 base warpgate timings as you'll have a lot of marines. I've yet to see a solid counter-build to this. if the protoss can defend without taking major damage and is teching to colossi surely you are just dead? You may say if he's teching he can't hold that easily but just with a couple of stalkers, if he micros them properly your marines should take a fair bit of damage on the way to his base. also if he is doing a 6 gate, yes you are safe if you are in your base in bunkers....but if you're pushing out and you get caught in the middle of the map surely you lose your whole army? | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On July 30 2012 10:14 ThePianoDentist wrote: if the protoss can defend without taking major damage and is teching to colossi surely you are just dead? You may say if he's teching he can't hold that easily but just with a couple of stalkers, if he micros them properly your marines should take a fair bit of damage on the way to his base. also if he is doing a 6 gate, yes you are safe if you are in your base in bunkers....but if you're pushing out and you get caught in the middle of the map surely you lose your whole army? There's a ton of if's in there if he micros properly - that's what the majority of people think but it's not very easy to micro perfectly with stalkers and not take any damage at all. And realistically, terrans have to stutter step, as that's a pretty basic fundamental technique among terrans, and it should be much easier if he's doing 6 gate and you're caught out in the open, that means you have really awful map presence and you need to get better at it. there should be no excuse for it | ||
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Pais
United States11 Posts
ANd for all the people who have helped me in the past I am very thankful. http://drop.sc/231455 | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
How do you deal with early 2 port banshees? I guess my fault was that I did not scout, and when I did scout, it was already too late. But the main problem for me is this. Where to put turrets? I put 1 in mineral line, in the middle, but the banshee can kill my scvs on the left side and right side of my mineral line. and then, they can also target my add ons. Is it beneficial to have my raxes close to each other, so that it requires less turrets? So at the moment I am thinking I need maybe 2 at each mineral line (left and right side), and 1 or 2 around my raxes. I went 1 rax fe so thats 4 turrets for mineral lines too, altogether I may have to put 5 or 6 turret, is this ok? I think this is ok because the investment in banshee is a lot right?(They went cloak shee btw) | ||
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Kamwah
United Kingdom724 Posts
On July 30 2012 11:26 dynwar7 wrote: Hi guys How do you deal with early 2 port banshees? I guess my fault was that I did not scout, and when I did scout, it was already too late. But the main problem for me is this. Where to put turrets? I put 1 in mineral line, in the middle, but the banshee can kill my scvs on the left side and right side of my mineral line. and then, they can also target my add ons. Is it beneficial to have my raxes close to each other, so that it requires less turrets? So at the moment I am thinking I need maybe 2 at each mineral line (left and right side), and 1 or 2 around my raxes. I went 1 rax fe so thats 4 turrets for mineral lines too, altogether I may have to put 5 or 6 turret, is this ok? I think this is ok because the investment in banshee is a lot right?(They went cloak shee btw) I'd go for 1 turret in each line just for the detection. I'd go for 2-3 if it's lets say Mutas. In TvT to deal with Banshees just keep the marine production up and if you really must, get a viking out and save a few scans. | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
On July 30 2012 11:26 dynwar7 wrote: Hi guys How do you deal with early 2 port banshees? I guess my fault was that I did not scout, and when I did scout, it was already too late. But the main problem for me is this. Where to put turrets? I put 1 in mineral line, in the middle, but the banshee can kill my scvs on the left side and right side of my mineral line. and then, they can also target my add ons. Is it beneficial to have my raxes close to each other, so that it requires less turrets? So at the moment I am thinking I need maybe 2 at each mineral line (left and right side), and 1 or 2 around my raxes. I went 1 rax fe so thats 4 turrets for mineral lines too, altogether I may have to put 5 or 6 turret, is this ok? I think this is ok because the investment in banshee is a lot right?(They went cloak shee btw) First of all, scout. Not much more to say other than this. If you want to win games, scout. I had trouble with turret placement as well, until one day it just clicked; don't think of it as X numbers of turrets per Y location, but rather you beed a RING of turrets around your base to completely shut down banshee harassment. On some maps where your mineral lines are against an edge of the map or if your base is small, you usually need a minimum of 4 for your main and 2 for your natural. Basically you want to make it that turrets are the first structures banshees would reach when flying into your base. Sometimes you'll have opponents that sacrifices 1 banshee to turret fire to slip through to your mineral line, so still get a group of 10 or so marines to sit just inside your rings and 1 scan saved up. I used to skimp on turrets as much as I could, until I realized it's so much better to invest the 600 into turrets early, than vto let a good opponent fly and poke everywhere at you forcing scans. | ||
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EngrishTeacher
Canada1109 Posts
On July 30 2012 11:42 Kamwah wrote: I'd go for 1 turret in each line just for the detection. I'd go for 2-3 if it's lets say Mutas. In TvT to deal with Banshees just keep the marine production up and if you really must, get a viking out and save a few scans. 1 per mineral line? Against 2-port banshees? ... have you ever played banshees micro'ed like they should? If I were playing against you I'd camp one near your raxes and instantly pop any freshly produced marines, then poke/kite at the sides of your mineral line picking off clumped marines and scvs mining at the edges. Don't ever get me started on add-ons and wasted scans, with 4-6 cloakshees and your marine production halted, I could probably win the game right there or force 5+ turret production after having done ridiculous amounts of damage. Only in lower leagues do people let their banshees die due to not enough apm/multitasking for constant babysitting. Just get that turret ring up early and 95% of the times it'll be worth the investment, especially against 2-port banshees. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 30 2012 10:06 ThePianoDentist wrote: @2) what about 2 base infestor? also scouting no third and knowing it could either be a 2 base tech build or 2 base all-in doesn't seem too helpful, as why are you blindly building bunkers against 2 base muta? I honestly don't think you can scout this without scanning 2-base infestor is silly, but I suppose it goes in there too. Anywayz, the idea is to put blind bunkers up, once medivacs/tanks are out, you move out, salvage the bunkers, and overall you've lost literally nothing. And yes, if you're not sure, scan (see below). On July 30 2012 10:10 toadahlmn wrote: than wha time should u scan for lair, 6:30??? The lair time is around 9:00-10:00. If you see no busts or anything, feel free to scan about that time to check if it's 2-base muta. The other crucial scan time is around 16:00-18:00 when hive generally goes up. Putting the bunkers up makes you safe, doesn't make you have to cut corners, and literally loses you nothing when you salvage them later. Blind bunkers are honestly not bad. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 30 2012 11:26 dynwar7 wrote: Hi guys How do you deal with early 2 port banshees? I guess my fault was that I did not scout, and when I did scout, it was already too late. But the main problem for me is this. Where to put turrets? I put 1 in mineral line, in the middle, but the banshee can kill my scvs on the left side and right side of my mineral line. and then, they can also target my add ons. Is it beneficial to have my raxes close to each other, so that it requires less turrets? So at the moment I am thinking I need maybe 2 at each mineral line (left and right side), and 1 or 2 around my raxes. I went 1 rax fe so thats 4 turrets for mineral lines too, altogether I may have to put 5 or 6 turret, is this ok? I think this is ok because the investment in banshee is a lot right?(They went cloak shee btw) 2-port banshee...omg...headache. Ugh, my least favourite thing to play against. Let me start with 1-port banshee. With 1-port banshee, you need just 1 per mineral line to cover the area around it, generally on the outside. Someone said something about creating a perimeter around your base; this is right, make kind of an invisible line he can't cross. Even with 2 turrets placed on the outsides, you've started to create a "wall" that the banshees can't get through. Try to place the remaining builds inside this little "safe box". The rest of the time, you should be chasing the banshees around with marines/vikings, and scanning ONLY if you know you can kill it. With 2-port banshees, you need to identify that it's 2-port banshees first thing. Don't scan in TvT. Day9 just did a daily recently where he talked about seeing a banshee every 30 seconds instead of 60 seconds to identify that it's 2-port banshee. In any case, you want to start with 2 turrets in your mineral line like before, but then start adding turrets to make a bigger ring around your base and expo. With the range of the turret plus the range of detection, you should be able to get away with a minimum of 4 spread apart. After that, it all depends on whether or not the harass is really strong or you're handling it okay. The BIGGEST headache ever of 2-port banshee is that it's so strong that it can kill turrets fairly quickly once it gets to 6+ banshees. How to beat that...honestly just takes a lot of patience and stopping yourself from slinging the keyboard across the room. | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
On July 30 2012 07:52 blobrus wrote: As someone who just switched to terran, would practicing 1 rax expand for all matchups be a good idea? Or are there better builds for different matchups? 1 rax expand is fine for all matchups but you need to practise considerably further into the build than that. For example, switching to terran recently my builds were: ThorZaiN TvT build Bomber TvP pressure Polt's marauder/hellion/marine pressure TvZ All of these begin with 1rax expo but diverge immediately afterwards. I recommend practising up to the 10 minute mark a few times, I use YABOT. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 30 2012 10:14 ThePianoDentist wrote: if the protoss can defend without taking major damage and is teching to colossi surely you are just dead? You may say if he's teching he can't hold that easily but just with a couple of stalkers, if he micros them properly your marines should take a fair bit of damage on the way to his base. also if he is doing a 6 gate, yes you are safe if you are in your base in bunkers....but if you're pushing out and you get caught in the middle of the map surely you lose your whole army? 1. For any early pressure before 8:00, 5rax is actually totally safe unless the protoss pulls off a really nice micro trick like a FF doughnut or cutting your army in half. Even in the middle of the map, there are SO many marines that it's difficult to beat. The only thing I've found that holds this off very well is early blink stalkers. 2. If the protoss can defend without taking any major damage...then yes, you're screwed. But having a lot of stalkers and kiting well with them still achieves the goal of DELAYING tech. All the terran player has to do is 1-a. Also, as a general rule, I like to push out with 8-9 marines to clear the watchtower before pushing. This will eliminate the threat of stalkers kiting you for the entire distance of the map and will also allow you a bit of surprise when you push. Try it out! It's quite good and quite easy to do. Unless the protoss defends really well and cleverly, you should be able to achieve the goal of delaying tech every game fairly easily. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On July 30 2012 13:01 SC2John wrote: 1. For any early pressure before 8:00, 5rax is actually totally safe unless the protoss pulls off a really nice micro trick like a FF doughnut or cutting your army in half. Even in the middle of the map, there are SO many marines that it's difficult to beat. The only thing I've found that holds this off very well is early blink stalkers. 2. If the protoss can defend without taking any major damage...then yes, you're screwed. But having a lot of stalkers and kiting well with them still achieves the goal of DELAYING tech. All the terran player has to do is 1-a. Also, as a general rule, I like to push out with 8-9 marines to clear the watchtower before pushing. This will eliminate the threat of stalkers kiting you for the entire distance of the map and will also allow you a bit of surprise when you push. Try it out! It's quite good and quite easy to do. Unless the protoss defends really well and cleverly, you should be able to achieve the goal of delaying tech every game fairly easily. yes i always clear the watchtower with like 5-6 marines to don't show my high marine count and then push out with 3 SCV's and in nearly 80-90% of my games i finished the bunker and if he hasn't go for early collosus his expansion is dead but i want to know if there any "agressive" alternative to punish his nexus first hard, because he can hold it without no losses and then i'am behind with my follow up. Is it to late two switch into and all-in if i scout a protoss goes nexus first? | ||
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VPVanek
Canada238 Posts
It feels like protoss can just sit in their fucking base, and then do whatever they want. And when its 200/200, my controll has to be 100% tip top to win, and protoss just storms and A moves all their fucking units. | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On July 30 2012 15:43 VPVanek wrote: I'm having such hard time dealing with TVP, the matchup honestly makes me want to pull my hair out. It feels like protoss can just sit in their fucking base, and then do whatever they want. And when its 200/200, my controll has to be 100% tip top to win, and protoss just storms and A moves all their fucking units. If you want some advice you need to post some replays. What you have written is very vague and sounds more like a balance rant than a request for advice. Is it that you are having difficulty putting pressure on in the mid game before toss maxes out? | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
If I play bio, I need to be super aggressive and abuse my mobility. It is just really so much work. I was thinking of sky terran but its not a proper build I think...just something I can transition to. Plus sky terran takes ages to macro/reproduce. So, I am left with meching myself, but I absolutely hate tank stalemates that go 30+ minutes...this is the reason I dont play mech, I prefer fast paced, action packed games, hence why I use bio, but it is hard, when he has turret rings and sensor tower, etc. and he has soooo many tanks, I find it hard to win.... Must I really mech vs mech....? The only way I know when I am bio is to use nuke to force unsiege, does anybody have replays of this in pro play? What can I do in TvT? -.- | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
http://sc2casts.com/cast9405-PuMa-vs-Dream-Best-of-3-MLG-Summer-Arena-2012-Losers-Round-1 Despite sensor towers and turret rings Puma still makes it work. | ||
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