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Paria
France19 Posts
Is it easliy countered with a 1 rax expand ? My micro is really bad, and when the oppoment comes with his first siege, He has almost as many marines as I do, + a siege tank behind. So I try to turtle, but he slowly gets his tanks forward, and then I lose. When should I try to attack him, before he sieges ? This timing is really annoying, because my tanks are pretty delayed with my usual build (Thorzain's one), and I just autolose against 1/1/1. | ||
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Willba
United Kingdom209 Posts
On July 25 2012 10:56 dynwar7 wrote: I really appreciate the advice given so far people. So, there is absolutely no top korean player/any high level player who goes bio vs marine tank and win? I think even with 1 replay will convince me  Hmm...I just love bio, I need a way to make it work. Does ANYBODY here in TL have replays? Any replays welcome. I did see a Chinese player going full bio (MMM) beating MarineKing (!!!) who was using marine tank though Polt goes bio TvT fairly often, I think there are a few vods around too. He did it in GSL vs TOP awhile ago, i'm pretty sure there are other series where he's done it. | ||
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najo
United States75 Posts
On July 25 2012 22:59 Paria wrote: I got a problem against TvT going 1/1/1 with fast siege. Is it easliy countered with a 1 rax expand ? My micro is really bad, and when the oppoment comes with his first siege, He has almost as many marines as I do, + a siege tank behind. So I try to turtle, but he slowly gets his tanks forward, and then I lose. When should I try to attack him, before he sieges ? This timing is really annoying, because my tanks are pretty delayed with my usual build (Thorzain's one), and I just autolose against 1/1/1. When I do a 1 rax expand, I get combat shields first. If you scout some kind of 1/1/1 with fast siege you will have to try and delay him. What I do is usually patrol an scv or marine outside of my front to see him coming and pull workers and attack him. Usually if he isn't sieged yet you can kill everything he has. Just remember even if you lose some workers you will still be even or ahead. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Paria
France19 Posts
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najo
United States75 Posts
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halpimcat
215 Posts
I like using builds that give me an offensive edge while also being economically sound. This means a strong midgame timing that will either crush armies or harass. I use Bomber's build in my TvP matchups and utilize a marine/hellion/medivac push against zerg around the time their third is about to go up. I've been using Thorzain's marine/medivac push in my TvT for the past couple months, but the push isn't nearly as effective as it used to be. Terrans are getting tanks faster and not skimping on units, not being as greedy. I'm safe against most builds, but I can't really attack anything. Any builds out there that have slipped my radar? Preferably on 2 base. | ||
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Oomps
9 Posts
I have started to play again after a long break and I have a really hard time vs toss. The earlie game i can handle and the mid aswell. The problem I have is vs tosses who go colousses inte HT and attack around 20ish. When this happens i usually have around 5 raxes and 2 starports. Usually we are the same on uppgrades, or i am little ahead. Is the right way to go for some ghost to emp the HT and some vikings to kill the colousses, or do i go for mass medivacs and vikings and skip the ghosts. I would also love some tip on what structures to have around the 20 minute mark, what is the right "compostion" of structures?  I'm am mid plat in rank ^^ | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On July 26 2012 00:20 najo wrote: I think you can also go 1 rax fe into double gas and then proceed to get your factory and starport out. You will have slightly less units and your siege will be delayed slightly but with some bunker repairs and time you should be safe enough to not lose much. Problem is that by doing this you become super vulnerable to other things that hit you before you get siege mode out (drops, bio timings, banshees etc.) since you have a very small army and rely on getting siege mode out before the timings hit you. | ||
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Broesl
Austria75 Posts
On July 26 2012 00:29 BobMcJohnson wrote: Problem is that by doing this you become super vulnerable to other things that hit you before you get siege mode out (drops, bio timings, banshees etc.) since you have a very small army and rely on getting siege mode out before the timings hit you. Banshees are fine since you have starport tech ready, against any kind of 1base drop play (hellion/marine or hellion/reaper) a tank is amazing, you dont need siege mode for that, just micro a little, repair and youre more than fine. And a bio timing is for once almost never seen (unless youre colHeart ...) and then it is either really late cause of stim, ergo u have siege mode, or its pretty weak early on, which a repaired bunker and a tank mode tank handle fine. Its definetely the safer 1rax expand version but you lack aggressive potential until you have a marine count that can support your tanks out on the map. If u wanna do this just go 16 marine,oc 17 cc 17 gas,gas 17 depot that way you get your tech out super early after the expo. | ||
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gavinashun
101 Posts
This version of the 1 rax FE gives you more gas sooner and so you can get a very early stim (or combat shields - polt gets stim first) and a very early siege tank (early relative to other 1 rax FE). The siege tank is critical because it is gets out so much faster and is good for drops/hellions, and of course the 1/1/1 tank push. I don't really think you have to worry about early early bio as a bunker will make you pretty safe to that. Banshee, you will have a faster viking than usual so it's probably safe to that as well. 2-3 early reapers might be annoying since you'll have a lower early marine count, but not sure if this is a problem or not. But yeah, check out Polt vs. TOP, and I can't remember, some other recent Polt games, where he was doing this pretty regularly. Really think this might be a safer way to 1 Rax FE. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On July 26 2012 01:59 gavinashun wrote: Yeah, this ^^ is what I noticed in a couple recent Polt games. 1 rax FE --> 2 gas --> 1 rax (vs. the usual 2 additional, as you'll have less minerals due to the fast double gas) --> quick stim and quick factory/siege tanks and quick starport/viking. This version of the 1 rax FE gives you more gas sooner and so you can get a very early stim (or combat shields - polt gets stim first) and a very early siege tank (early relative to other 1 rax FE). The siege tank is critical because it is gets out so much faster and is good for drops/hellions, and of course the 1/1/1 tank push. I don't really think you have to worry about early early bio as a bunker will make you pretty safe to that. Banshee, you will have a faster viking than usual so it's probably safe to that as well. 2-3 early reapers might be annoying since you'll have a lower early marine count, but not sure if this is a problem or not. But yeah, check out Polt vs. TOP, and I can't remember, some other recent Polt games, where he was doing this pretty regularly. Really think this might be a safer way to 1 Rax FE. I am doing this at the moment and it is really strong. It is very safe and can have a nice timing push when you get 2 tanks out and a medivac. Polt also uses this against keen I think. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 26 2012 01:59 gavinashun wrote: Yeah, this ^^ is what I noticed in a couple recent Polt games. 1 rax FE --> 2 gas --> 1 rax (vs. the usual 2 additional, as you'll have less minerals due to the fast double gas) --> quick stim and quick factory/siege tanks and quick starport/viking. This version of the 1 rax FE gives you more gas sooner and so you can get a very early stim (or combat shields - polt gets stim first) and a very early siege tank (early relative to other 1 rax FE). The siege tank is critical because it is gets out so much faster and is good for drops/hellions, and of course the 1/1/1 tank push. I don't really think you have to worry about early early bio as a bunker will make you pretty safe to that. Banshee, you will have a faster viking than usual so it's probably safe to that as well. 2-3 early reapers might be annoying since you'll have a lower early marine count, but not sure if this is a problem or not. But yeah, check out Polt vs. TOP, and I can't remember, some other recent Polt games, where he was doing this pretty regularly. Really think this might be a safer way to 1 Rax FE. The biggest problem is 1-1-1 all-in openings, such as the speed reaper/hellion/medivac timing, the marine/hellion/medivac timing, and the 2 tank marine/tank push, all of which come at about 7:00. In this case, EVERYTHING revolves around keeping that tank alive and maybe even abandoning mining at your natural. Honestly, I prefer marine openings in that they are a lot safer overall...1-1-1 builds have some really glaring weaknesses, so you have to be really on top of your early-game reads. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On July 26 2012 03:11 SC2John wrote: The biggest problem is 1-1-1 all-in openings, such as the speed reaper/hellion/medivac timing, the marine/hellion/medivac timing, and the 2 tank marine/tank push, all of which come at about 7:00. In this case, EVERYTHING revolves around keeping that tank alive and maybe even abandoning mining at your natural. Honestly, I prefer marine openings in that they are a lot safer overall...1-1-1 builds have some really glaring weaknesses, so you have to be really on top of your early-game reads. With good micro you can defend against those builds , even unscouted, but it can be hard. | ||
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Wardi
England898 Posts
On July 26 2012 00:29 Oomps wrote: hello people of tl! I have started to play again after a long break and I have a really hard time vs toss. The earlie game i can handle and the mid aswell. The problem I have is vs tosses who go colousses inte HT and attack around 20ish. When this happens i usually have around 5 raxes and 2 starports. Usually we are the same on uppgrades, or i am little ahead. Is the right way to go for some ghost to emp the HT and some vikings to kill the colousses, or do i go for mass medivacs and vikings and skip the ghosts. I would also love some tip on what structures to have around the 20 minute mark, what is the right "compostion" of structures? I'm am mid plat in rank ^^ Getting into lategame vs Toss is difficult especially if you don't do a lot of economic damage early on. You should be looking to do a strong stim timing push around 10 minutes after a 1 rax FE with a third base behind it. Usually it is not a problem dealing with a Protoss who has only Collossi or only High Templar, it is when they start getting both that the engagements become difficult. In general a standard Protoss composition will half 3-4 Collossi, a lot of zealots and a handful of HTs and Archons. This means at 200/200 you want 12-16 Vikings (remember to get +Ship Weapon Upgrades), 6-10 Ghosts, 6-8 Medivacs and the remainder a good mix of marine and marauder. Marines are more squishy but deal higher damage where as Marauders will survive longer under Storm etc but do less damage. Having the right mixture is important because you do not want your whole army to be dead in two storms, but you will also be wanting to do too little DPS with Marauder only. It sounds as though this is a bit complex for the level you are at though. At 20 minutes you should have your 4th base going up as your main will be running dry (if you got up to that 70 SCV count). You can start sacking some SCVs and replacing them with orbital commands for more mules. You should have about 15 or more Barracks which you have added on throughout the game with more tech labs than reactors and also you will want two reactored starports so you can reproduce vikings quickly. Being able to remax quickly is important so you will definitely have trouble if you are only on 5 Barracks (this is about 2 base level of production). Hope this helps, let me know if there are more points you want me to go into with more detail. | ||
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Paria
France19 Posts
On July 26 2012 03:00 kollin wrote: I am doing this at the moment and it is really strong. It is very safe and can have a nice timing push when you get 2 tanks out and a medivac. Polt also uses this against keen I think. Does someone happen to have the timiing precisions of this build ? I'd like to test it. Thanks | ||
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stichtom
Italy695 Posts
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yoigen
Germany369 Posts
[B]On July 26 2012 03:25 Wardi wrote: In general a standard Protoss composition will half 3-4 Collossi, a lot of zealots and a handful of HTs and Archons. This means at 200/200 you want 12-16 Vikings (remember to get +Ship Weapon Upgrades), 6-10 Ghosts, 6-8 Medivacs and the remainder a good mix of marine and marauder.. That is way too few ghosts. You want atleast 15 with cloak. You can never emp the whole army and have enough energy to snipe/emp ALL high templar. Ghosts also destroy zealots very easily. | ||
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BuffloBEAST
United States5 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
On July 26 2012 07:56 stichtom wrote: Is possible to beat Mech going Marine\Tank? Typically, you'll need to incorporate Marauders, which are modestly effective against all mech units. Marines die to splash, and with both hellions and tanks it's hard to be effective with them. Marine/Marauder/Tank or Marauder/Tank is how biomech should be played vs full mech. Take advantage of the fact that his only units that are good vs marauders (tanks) are immobile and can't defend drops easily. | ||
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